IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[kingwr]

I think a roadmap would be a great step in the right direction. Windows 7 looks good, and I am waiting for Q2 2010 on non-OEM cable cards to implement HD in my setup. It would be nice to know what to expect from SageTV in the same timeframe. Is Sage 7 coming? Does it contain an integrated and robust UI architecture on which interfaces like Windows 7 can be implemented? Must there be new extender hardware to support Sage 7 UIs? etc.

[evilpenguin]

Well, I can pretty much guarantee you'll never see a road map from Sage, or any other consumer tech/software company for that matter

About they best you can ever hope for is a little indication about the direction of their focus from the features they add/improve.

[LehighBri]

These type of threads always amuse me. What's the over/under on # of pages this thread will reach before the next beta hits? I'll set it at 9...

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by LehighBri

These type of threads always amuse me. What's the over/under on # of pages this thread will reach before the next beta hits? I'll set it at 9...

Wouldn't that depend on how many posts per page you have the forum set to display?

I would make a bet, but then I could just delete some posts or merge a few threads to make the thread length match my guess...

- Andy

[LehighBri]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Wouldn't that depend on how many posts per page you have the forum set to display?

I would make a bet, but then I could just delete some posts or merge a few threads to make the thread length match my guess...

- Andy

ha... sounds good to me (but then again i don't want to distract you with that vs. focusing on newer versions of sage )!

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Wouldn't that depend on how many posts per page you have the forum set to display?

I would make a bet, but then I could just delete some posts or merge a few threads to make the thread length match my guess...

- Andy

Yeah, most likely you have too much on your plate these days to bother with such stunts....

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

If they are going the route that you suggest then it might make sense to sell a full turnkey product - i.e. a Sage server running Linux with tuner cards along with HD-200 extenders. The reason I say that is that I don't think that an unsophisticated user is really going to be all that keen on adding a PC in there house that runs Linux. If it was marketed as more of a standalone appliance then that makes more sense but I still see support as then being the key issue.

I don't think Sage want's to get in to that level of component manufacturing. However, all they really need to do is develop a list of certified components, which basically comes down to tuners and IR blasters, that are configurable from within the GUI, and that would be enough for OTHER companies to make and sell SageTV Certified systems, but leave the 'support' to sage, as the OS itself will be from their Server-On-A-Stick.

[evilpenguin]

I keep pushing this so i'm gonna look stupid if i'm wrong, but I my guess for SOS is gonna be a two part thing:

1) A custom Linux distro prolly based on freeNAS with the drivers for all tuners built built-in (especially USB/Network tuners) and hardware setup wizards inside the STV. I'm guessing they'll make it available as an OEM product if you really wanna buy want it, but if you're comfortable building/configuring you're own server you prolly won't want it.

So if we won't want to upgrade to it then what's the point? That brings me to prediction #2...

2) A Sage branded NAS (Intel Atom) that runs the linux distro. Think the server side version of the HD200. Slide in a few drives, plug in a few USB tuners, and you're up and running in record time. I'll be very surprised if we don't see a prototype at CES.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

2) A Sage branded NAS (Intel Atom) that runs the linux distro. Think the server side version of the HD200. Slide in a few drives, plug in a few USB tuners, and you're up and running in record time. I'll be very surprised if we don't see a prototype at CES.

My point was that this seemed to be what they were shying away from, and creating the SOS so other small hardware companies could build the actual hardware for it. Would end up being more scalable that way anyways (meaning you could buy the 'model' that you need... as far as hard drive space, tuner needs and such). there are too many options on the hardware side, that a single SageTV made server hardware would not fit well. That's where the semi-custom pc shops would come in.

I can see some need for a single box, even one made by hauppauge, that effectively had two HD-PVR's built into it (the boards, not the boxes)... might help to have the thing in a fan ventilated enclosure anyways..

[evilpenguin]

See, your head's stuck in the PC OEM model, where as i'm talking about something closer how Tivo does it.

Think of it this way, what's the number one question new users ask about the HD200: can I record TV on it? Right now the answer is firm NO followed by a very complicated explanation about SageTV server, always on PC's, tuners, network configuration, etc. I've given out that answer dozens of times and I'll bet you it sells more Tivo's than it does SageTV licenses.

But just imagine if the answer was YES. What if all you needed to do to turn your HD200 into a Sage Server was slide in a hard drive and plug in a USB tuner? No tools, no dedicated PC's, just 10 minutes hooking up plus a little on screen setup wizard and you're ready to go.

Want more space? Slide in a 2nd hard drive! More tuners? Plug-in another USB tuner! Want a client on another TV? Throw a new HD200 under it! The only limitation is how much you're willing to spend (also how many drive bays this fantasy device I've created has ).

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

My point was that this seemed to be what they were shying away from, and creating the SOS so other small hardware companies could build the actual hardware for it.

There have been several companies over the years that sold pre-built Sage boxes. I think all of them went out of business. What makes you think that there is a market out there for this sort of thing?

I'm pretty confused by this move, to be perfectly honest. I mean, Sage developed the linux version 5 years ago, presumably (though never officially stated) to support some sort of OEM market, and their own Sage-branded server. As far as I know, Sage's own server product never came to be, and all the third-party system integrators have disappeared too. So, why would Sage get into this area now? At the same time, we know Sage is working on server-on-a-stick (well, we assume they still are), and I think most of us agree that doesn't make a lot of sense without some sort of hardware product to go along with it (be it third party or Sage-branded).

But, if EP is right, then we'll find out pretty soon. CES isn't that far away.

[Fuzzy]

I'm pretty sure you can now add USb storage to TiVo's and Dish DVR's as well, but not many people do it. The point is, people don't buy hardware to be later upgraded anymore. They buy hardware that does what they want, when they buy it. If their needs exceed this, they go out and buy new hardware, not upgrade what they've got. Is it smart to do this? no, probably not... but it's the way the mass market works.

My Mother, for example, figures having a PC is going to cost her about $300-400 a year. She has come to the conclusion lately, with the way PC hardware pricing has gone, that it is better for her to spend that money every 2 years on a $600-$800 new computer, than it is to spend that 300-400/year on upgrades/replacment parts for an existing one. She's certainly not alone on this, and it's where the mindset of MANY a CE purchaser sits.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

My Mother, for example, figures having a PC is going to cost her about $300-400 a year. She has come to the conclusion lately, with the way PC hardware pricing has gone, that it is better for her to spend that money every 2 years on a $600-$800 new computer, than it is to spend that 300-400/year on upgrades/replacment parts for an existing one. She's certainly not alone on this, and it's where the mindset of MANY a CE purchaser sits.

I would have to concur with this. For the average computer buyer it ends up costing more to do incremental upgrades over the life of a computer rather than buying the "best of breed" when you're buying. The average computer buyer actually rarely upgrades their computer beyond RAM or maybe the hard drive. And with such large external hard drives being available the latter isn't as much of a point of upgrade as it once was.

Computers have migrated from hobbyists, then to mom & pop stores and now to mass market while prices have dropped considerably at the same time. In today's computer market it's not unreasonable for the average joe to just buy a new one when the need arises rather than sinking money into old technology.

[wayner]

EP - the problem with your solution is that it is now (or in 15 days it will be) 2010 and people expect everything in HD. That means requiring HD-PVRs.

Now (knock on wood) I have two HD-PVRs with no issues - maybe partly because I use firewire for channel changing. But that is certainly not the experience of many Sage HD-PVR users. I don't know that you could offer a server like this with HD-PVRs without getting killed by support issues.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Watch22

Has anyone seen the announcements from CES 2010 Jan 7-10th? This my be old news but its the first I have heard of it.

Before anyone gets too excited, notice that this is from the 2006 CES. The SageTV Media Center UltraHD looks like basically the same thing as the SageTV MC Early Access Program system that Sage recruited testers for in early 2005. I'm not sure if you meant to do this or not, but your post made it sound like this was an announcement for the 2010 show.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wayner

Now (knock on wood) I have two HD-PVRs with no issues - maybe partly because I use firewire for channel changing. But that is certainly not the experience of many Sage HD-PVR users. I don't know that you could offer a server like this with HD-PVRs without getting killed by support issues.

That's basically what I think too. Generally speaking my HD-PVR is pretty stable, but I'm not completely without issues. But, even if the HD-PVR was more reliable, I still don't think an STB w/ capture device setup is going to be very attractive to someone looking for a relatively simple/easy setup. Given that, I don't think ease of setup is terribly important for Sage's success or growth prospects.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by wayner

EP - the problem with your solution is that it is now (or in 15 days it will be) 2010 and people expect everything in HD. That means requiring HD-PVRs.like this with HD-PVRs

That's a good point, the HD-PVR is bit of a wild card. Its both the perfect example of why this type of product would and wouldn't work at the same time.

But considering this Sage device is just a figment of my imagination, i'm also choosing to invent a bizarro version of the HD-PVR that's far less fussy

[Clift]

Well while we're guessing I'm gonna say the SOS linux distro will have some sort of built in DRM that will allow Cable Cards into Sage.

(I don't really believe that)

[wado1971]

SOS= Server-on-Stick. I'm not going to reread that article but doesn't this imply a usb stick with simply OS/driver installation into a pre-bought/built system? I agree with the need for a CE device but not sure the physical container of that CE device would ever satisfy everyone's specific needs.

Also, I think it's been too long of a beta hibernation to be introducing new hardware (SOS or extender). Seems that you can work new hardware in parallel with software development and not have it interfere with your core business of software development. I now believe (after such a long beta void) that the UI is undergoing significant changes!!

Or....... they have simply taken an extended break (shame! )

[cncb]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

See, your head's stuck in the PC OEM model, where as i'm talking about something closer how Tivo does it.

But just imagine if the answer was YES. What if all you needed to do to turn your HD200 into a Sage Server was slide in a hard drive and plug in a USB tuner? No tools, no dedicated PC's, just 10 minutes hooking up plus a little on screen setup wizard and you're ready to go.

Want more space? Slide in a 2nd hard drive! More tuners? Plug-in another USB tuner! Want a client on another TV? Throw a new HD200 under it! The only limitation is how much you're willing to spend (also how many drive bays this fantasy device I've created has ).

I'm not an expert in business but this model doesn't make much sense to me. If you are talking about Linux, sliding in hard drives, and plugging in tuners I think you have already lost the "Tivo crowd" who doesn't even want to know that there really is a computer "in there".