SageTv not honoring Encoder Merit

[waynedunham]

Over the last couple weeks I have had instances of SageTv not honoring the Encoder Merit settings.

I have 1 HDHR Prime, 2 HD-PVR/STB's, 1 Original HDHomerun 2 tuner set for OTA.

I have the 3 HDHR Primes set to #1, #2, and #3 priority, the HD-PVR's set to #4 and #5 and the HDHomeruns set to #6 and #7 (due to marginal OTA reception).

On multiple occasions the recording schedule will show all the shows recording on the Primes and/or the HD-PVR's, for days ahead of time. However when it comes time to record one set of shows (usually a single network recording back to back) will suddenly pop onto the HDHomerun while NOTHING is recording on one or more of the Primes and one or both of the HD-PVR's.
Now I can understand it recording on the HDHomerun(s) if there were other things wanting to record, but not if nothing else is recording.

In the few instances this has happened I usually have recorded alternate airings of some shows in order to keep the conflicts from pushing something onto the HDHomerun and the HD-PVR's (I try to use them only for things the Prime can't record)

Has anyone else seen this happen, and if so have you found a way to correct it?

[KryptoNyte]

By manually scheduling, are you able to re-create the problem on demand?

Wayne, could you re-iterate your encoder merits, maybe copying your merit text directly into a forum post? At one time I thought I had an issue with this, but after some digging in the forums, I had the merits setup incorrectly.

Admittedly, my HD-PVR is on a separate channel lineup to pickup any channels that I don't get via (4) old-fashioned HDHR tuners (and only those channels).

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

By manually scheduling, are you able to re-create the problem on demand?

Wayne, could you re-iterate your encoder merits, maybe copying your merit text directly into a forum post? At one time I thought I had an issue with this, but after some digging in the forums, I had the merits setup incorrectly.

Admittedly, my HD-PVR is on a separate channel lineup to pickup any channels that I don't get via (4) old-fashioned HDHR tuners (and only those channels).

Sadly, no I can't reliably re-create the issue. It seems somewhat random. For instance the programs/network that messed up last week recorded fine this week even though more tuners were in use and both times those programs were set for manual recording of a favorite (to push other conficts to alternate airings).
Maybe as more instances occur I can detect a pattern.

My HD-PVR's are on the default lineup and the Prime is on a "copy" of the default to deselect the channels only the HD-PVR's can record, and my old original HDHR is on an OTA lineup massaged to point to the EPG channel/data on the default lineup so I don't end up with multiple entries for those that are duplicates (i.e. WFSBDT on Comcast vs. WFSB on OTA even though it is the High Def digital channel)

Here are my encoder_merit settings:

mmc/encoders/123456972/encoder_merit=60
mmc/encoders/123456972/encoding_host=192.168.0.110\:6972
mmc/encoders/123456972/fast_network_encoder_switch=false
mmc/encoders/123456972/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/123456972/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/123456972/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/123456972/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/123456972/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/123456972/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/123456972/video_capture_device_name=SageDCT-HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 13138EC3-0
  ....
mmc/encoders/123456974/encoder_merit=50
mmc/encoders/123456974/encoding_host=192.168.0.110\:6974
mmc/encoders/123456974/fast_network_encoder_switch=false
mmc/encoders/123456974/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/123456974/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/123456974/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/123456974/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/123456974/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/123456974/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/123456974/video_capture_device_name=SageDCT-HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 13138EC3-1
  .....
mmc/encoders/123456977/encoder_merit=40
mmc/encoders/123456977/encoding_host=192.168.0.110\:6977
mmc/encoders/123456977/fast_network_encoder_switch=false
mmc/encoders/123456977/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/123456977/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/123456977/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/123456977/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/123456977/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/123456977/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/123456977/video_capture_device_name=SageDCT-HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 13138EC3-2
 ..........
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/encoder_merit=30
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/encoding_host=
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/last_cross_type=90
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/video_capture_device_name=Hauppauge HD PVR Capture Device
mmc/encoders/-1674637831/video_capture_device_num=1
 .....
mmc/encoders/-431556906/encoder_merit=20
mmc/encoders/-431556906/encoding_host=
mmc/encoders/-431556906/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/-431556906/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/-431556906/last_cross_type=90
mmc/encoders/-431556906/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/-431556906/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/-431556906/video_capture_device_name=Hauppauge HD PVR Capture Device
mmc/encoders/-431556906/video_capture_device_num=0
 ........
mmc/encoders/-556481764/encoder_merit=5
mmc/encoders/-556481764/encoding_host=
mmc/encoders/-556481764/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/-556481764/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/-556481764/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/-556481764/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/-556481764/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/-556481764/video_capture_device_name=Silicondust HDHomeRun Tuner 1016BA88-1
  ............
mmc/encoders/-556481765/encoder_merit=10
mmc/encoders/-556481765/encoding_host=
mmc/encoders/-556481765/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/-556481765/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/-556481765/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/-556481765/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/-556481765/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/-556481765/video_capture_device_name=Silicondust HDHomeRun Tuner 1016BA88-0

[stanger89]

It's been a while since I thought about merit, but this thread might be worth a look:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...=encoder+merit

[KryptoNyte]

Boy, Wayne, I don't know the answer to this one. You're going to have to start looking for a pattern (if one exists) and see if you can repeat it on demand at some point.

[KryptoNyte]

The only thing I can think of on this one is events that would make a particular tuner not available, and there are only three events that I can think of off the top of my head: the tuner is already scheduled to record another program, someone in the house already watching live television using this tuner on another channel sees the warning for the upcoming scheduled program and says 'no' to the channel change request, the tuner is not recognized by windows for a very short period.

[Tiki]

I have noticed recently that sometimes after re-booting my PC, one or more of the Prime tuners (Sage DCT) show-up as functioning = false. Stopping and starting the Sage DCT service will fix this.

If you go into the info screen in Sage, it will put an asterisk (*) next to the working tuners, and a little further down it lists whether the tuners are functioning or not. When this happens, the * is also missing for the affected tuner(s).

This caused funny things to happen with my schedule, since I would only have 1 or 2 Prime tuners available (not the 3 that I expect), forcing shows to be recorded on alternate tuners or re-scheduled for a later airing.

I've now made it a habit to always go to the info screen and checking all tuners after re-starting Sage.

Could something similar be happening to you?

[sflamm]

I have found that it also causes the mysterious "spinning circle of death" that occurs ...
Once the tuner issues are corrected playback/stopping go back to normal speed (bye-bye spinning circle)

[waynedunham]

No problem with "spinning circle of death", nor tuners unavailable. When it does skip over the higher merit tuners to record on a lower merit recorder I have been able to do a manual recording of the same channel on the higher merit tuner with no problem.

That being said, I think it may have been a favorites sorting issue. I have a very large # of favorites that are over 300 now and with the new season, new shows, shows switching slots, or nights my favorite priorities were all jumbled up. I think this was causing the occasional problems with SageTv figuring out where to record something.
I went through and arranged the most used favorites so that their priorities would come in the proper order to nudge SageTv towards putting them on the preferred tuners. And on those nights where I record back to back part or all of an evening on the same network this helped a lot.

I haven't seen it in a week or so now.

Another thing I noticed is that in a few spots as I would cruise through my favorites list (set on priority) it would stall and then jump. By that I mean it would be on say favorite 180 and pressing the up arrow wouldn't take it up to 179 for several presses, and then it would start scrolling again.

I don't know if it is what happened, but for a while there I was adjusting the priorities from the conflicts list when I would have conflicts. After I'd done that a bunch of times over a month or more I started to notice that things weren't where they "should" be. They sometimes weren't nudged up or down by a few places, but bounced half the list away.
I'm wondering now if that stall/jump thing are those alternate priorities mixing things up as opposed to a linear list.

Anyway, since reordering my favorite priorities I haven't had an issue with it skipping higher merit tuners. I'll keep an eye on it though.

[sflamm]

Are you suggesting that when a show was scheduled to record and there were more than 1 tuner available to do so that the show was still recording on a lower priority tuner?

If that is the case it has nothing to do with favorite ordering/priority as the favorite can record on either available tuner...

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

... I have a very large # of favorites that are over 300 now ....

300 favorites? Holy smokes, Wayne.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Are you suggesting that when a show was scheduled to record and there were more than 1 tuner available to do so that the show was still recording on a lower priority tuner?

If that is the case it has nothing to do with favorite ordering/priority as the favorite can record on either available tuner...

I'm just sayin'. That is what I'm seeing. No conflicts, open high merit tuner and it's still recording on the lower merit tuner which is an HDHR OTA (2 lowest merit tuners) and not the HDHR Primer (3 highest merit tuners).

Not always, and nothing I've been able to nail down as far as repeatability. And it is rare, maybe 2 out of every 100 recordings.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

300 favorites? Holy smokes, Wayne.

Hey, what can I say, I like Tv. Now there are probably a hundred or more in there that are not being used since the shows are either cancelled, or I'm waiting for them to re-air at a future date.
Also there are some dupes in there with different titles since things like motorcycle racing like to keep changing the title of their shows. AMA to AMA Pro, Moto-GP to MotoGp, etc, etc.

[Fuzzy]

Are the channels in question the same channel ID? across the multiple tuners? Even if they are on different lineups, they can still be the same 'channel'. If they are different, sage might have had a reason to think the lower merit airing was better (HD flag vs. non-HD flag, for instance).

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Are the channels in question the same channel ID? across the multiple tuners? Even if they are on different lineups, they can still be the same 'channel'. If they are different, sage might have had a reason to think the lower merit airing was better (HD flag vs. non-HD flag, for instance).

That could be part of it because my HD-PVR's get the native EPG and my HDHR Primes all get a single copy of the native EPG. However they are working of the same lineup/mapping. The only remapped channels I have are on my original HDHR OTA tuners where I mapped the stations to the native lineup EPG position so I wouldn't end up with 2 EPG entries for the local networks I can get OTA. That has been where the occasional happening of it deciding at recording time to switch to the HDHR tuner over the Prime tuners.
Oddly, they won't switch over at recording time like that if I set the recordings up as manual ones. But I think you may be on the right track. I'll have to keep an eye on that and investigate my channel mappings when/if it does happen.


Although I just noticed that on Monday morning in the 4-6am slot that there were 3 recordings and one of them was showing as recording on the first HD-PVR (4th in merit) leaving the 3rd Prime (3rd in merit) not recording anything.
All 3 recordings were manual recordings since the original airings of all 3 shows (2 from 4-5am and one from 5-6am) were in prime time and I wanted other stuff recording then.
The one that was scheduled on the 4th merit tuner was a channel that has usually recorded on one of the Prime tuners unless they were set to record other stuff at that time.

Hmmmm, One thing I didn't notice was where the original airing would have recorded before I set it up as a manual in another time slot. I'll have to watch for that also to see if that is part of the puzzle.
I thought that pre/post padding might have been an issue since the 2 on the Primes were padded past the beginning of the one on the HD-PVR. So I stripped the padding off to see if the recording would move onto the 3rd Prime tuner, but it didn't.

The more I investigate this the more I'm thinking it is some kind of "perfect storm" of variables among favorite position, padding, creating manual recordings to bypass potential conflicts, and the algorithms SageTv uses to figure out what to put where. I think my usage is just overwhelming SageTv's intelligence.