Should we continue to update Java?

[valnar]

I'm on the latest update 31 to Java 6 and the thought occurred to me - Should I keep updating Java when it is available? This question is directed squarely at Jeff or any other Sage personnel still reading these boards.

Java on my main Windows server box is installed specfically for Sage. If there is no reason to update it further, or, if there is a chance a later version of Java could break Sage, I have no problem stopping the updates.

[GKusnick]

My policy is to update and make regular backups, so if something goes wrong, I can always roll back. So far that hasn't been necessary, and I think the chances of a Java update breaking Sage are pretty slim.

On the flip side, if you stop updating and freeze your system, then you're putting yourself at the mercy of changes in the external world that your frozen system isn't able to deal with. A lot of people got burned by this a few years ago when the daylight savings rules changed. If your system wasn't up to date, you found yourself recording the wrong shows.

I don't think another DST rule change is likely anytime soon, but there have been other changes lately (like the weather API change) that remind us that our systems don't work in isolation. They must be tied in to the rest of the world to work properly, so when the world changes (as it will continue to do), we must be prepared to change as well, and keeping up to date is part of that preparation.

[reggie14]

I agree with GKusnick. About a year ago I started doing nightly backups of my Sage server (along with my other computers). That's made me feel much more comfortable with doing any sort of software update on my Sage box. While my Sage server is mostly a dedicated server, I do a few other things on it too. Not a whole lot of browsing online, but a little. It's also Internet-accessible. So, all that together makes me want to keep things patched for security reasons.

Now, I realize not everyone has the infrastructure or software to do nightly backups. But, to get back to the specific question that was asked, rolling back on an older JRE after a bad update shouldn't be a big problem if you have to do it.

[benjamintm]

I recommend not upgrading Java. I tried today to the 31 version and my sage server refused to start up. Running the standalone app gave me an error message indicating it couldn't determine the version of the Java install.

Fortunately I had the Java 1.6.26 install and was able to downgrade and sage came up without any errors.

Ben

[gplasky]

In most instances when people have had problems with the upgrades they had not shut Sage down properly and made sure no instances were left running. You must make sure all of Sage is shut down and nothing left running before beginning the java upgrade.


As an aside I have gone back to Java 6 build 24 from java 7 build 3. My 2 x HDHRs have begun giving me an issue where the first tuner engaged never would record properly. It showed halts and Sage would try restarting the tuner. All the tuners after that one would record fine. I would lose up to 4 minutes of the beginning of a program. But it would only do this on the first tuner. Even when I changed priority of which tuner to use. It would then begin to happen on the other tuner. Since I have rolled back to java 6 I haven't seen this occur again. Once satified the problem is gone I will update to java 6 build 31.


Gerry

[jmonier]

Originally Posted by benjamintm

I recommend not upgrading Java. I tried today to the 31 version and my sage server refused to start up. Running the standalone app gave me an error message indicating it couldn't determine the version of the Java install.

Fortunately I had the Java 1.6.26 install and was able to downgrade and sage came up without any errors.

Ben

Same thing happened to me. I finally found out that uninstalling and re-installing the 31 version fixed things.

I believe that the problem occurs when the SageTV service is running when the Java upgrade is done. Even though the upgrade says it closes SageTV (and that's worked fine for me in the past), it apparently doesn't do it right for this upgrade.

[MattHelm]

I'm running with Java 6 update 31 and having no problems.

I agree with gplasky, most problems happen when you don't shut down all your Java programs when updating.

[tmiranda]

I don't install each and every update. When I do update I make sure nobody is complaining that the update killed their install. IMHO updating Java is more likely to cause issues then updating Windows.

My Windows update strategy is much the same. I keep the automatic update turned off and occasionally I manually apply the latest updates. (After backing up and creating a checkpoint.)

[Polypro]

If you aren't going to update, I'd make sure you have a really good security package running (if you expose the box to the internet). I do, and update. I also have Comodo running and it isn't a problem. Sandboxie as well.

P

[valnar]

Thanks everyone.

[davephan]

Make sure that you are periodically imaging your system, so if a Java update or anything else causes failure, you can easily recover. Use a product like Acronis with the Plus Pack to allow you to recover to different hardware in case your system board fails. Copy the image files to at least one additional removal drive. A failure can occur at any time without warning even if you don't make updates or changes to your system. You need to prepare for the recovery before you need to recover.

Dave

[KryptoNyte]

I just did the Java update without manually shutting down the SageTV service, and there were problems, Sage would not launch. I rebooted and performed a manual reinstall, and now it's working again.

[pjpjpjpj]

Add me to the "no problems" list. I shut down Sage service completely, installed, and then fired Sage back up. No problems.

(Win XP Pro 32, last version of Sage 7, updated to java release 31)

[johnboatcat]

Updated to new JAVA this morning on 64 system. No Sage. Did full system restore to pre JAVA update.. No SAGE. Uninstalled SAGE and reinstall. No Sage. Uninstall JAVA and reinstall to version 6 - 21 and copied my Sage backup over new install. Back to normal.

In my case anyway the answer to the question would be:

No do not update to the new JAVA version.

[jmonier]

Originally Posted by johnboatcat

Updated to new JAVA this morning on 64 system. No Sage. Did full system restore to pre JAVA update.. No SAGE. Uninstalled SAGE and reinstall. No Sage. Uninstall JAVA and reinstall to version 6 - 21 and copied my Sage backup over new install. Back to normal.

In my case anyway the answer to the question would be:

No do not update to the new JAVA version.

Are you sure that the SageTV SERVICE was OFF when you did the Java -31 install? That's the key to keep the Java install from being corrupted.

Note that there will be problems with other Java programs and -31 (not just Sage), if this isn't done.

[johnboatcat]

It is updated now and working. It asks if you want it to shut down Sage, but saying yes must not shut down everything. It works if you shut down everything prior to install. Thanks all. First Google and now Java shuts us off. Where is my tin foil hat!

[pjpjpjpj]

Just for those who do not know, there is a small program in the Sage folder called "SageTVservice.exe" (I think - I'm at work). Clicking on it opens a small UI with buttons for enable/disable Sage service, and start/stop Sage service (and some other things that I can't recall right now).
(it always shocks me how many people have no idea this exists; I have a shortcut in the middle of my server desktop for my wife to use in an "reboot emergency" when I'm not home!)

If you open the UI, click "stop" (give it a second to stop), then do the java update, then come back and click the "start" button, you will be fine.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Just for those who do not know, there is a small program in the Sage folder called "SageTVservice.exe" (I think - I'm at work). Clicking on it opens a small UI with buttons for enable/disable Sage service, and start/stop Sage service (and some other things that I can't recall right now).
(it always shocks me how many people have no idea this exists; I have a shortcut in the middle of my server desktop for my wife to use in an "reboot emergency" when I'm not home!)

If you open the UI, click "stop" (give it a second to stop), then do the java update, then come back and click the "start" button, you will be fine.

Almost correct. I think the name is SageTVServiceControl.exe. SageTVService.exe is the service mode program and SageTV.exe is the GUI mode/Client program.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

Almost correct. I think the name is SageTVServiceControl.exe. SageTVService.exe is the service mode program and SageTV.exe is the GUI mode/Client program.

Ah, I believe you are correct. Like I said, I'm at work, I couldn't remember the exact name. Thanks.

[sivilya]

Note that since that update the SageTV did not load at all.
I had to revert back to update 30 for Sage to get back on.