New SageTV Setup Experience

[pvr599]

Hi all,
Well I am starting a thread here that will have my own personal experiences as I go along rebuilding my SageTV server from scratch. Hopefully this will help other people doing the same thing and reference for me if I ever need to do this again...uuhggg. This is not so much for my questions, but how well or terrible it works out.

A little bit of background first. I starting using SageTV around 5 years ago. I truly don't remember everything I had to go through to get it all setup and working correctly, but I do remember banging my head against the wall several times. Once it was all up and working, I've been so happy with with it and I got "WOW" all the time on how my system is setup. Little do they know what went into it to get it that way.

On to the future. I was informed that my cable company is going all digital starting May 2011. So my initial reaction was "OH CRAP" what does this mean for my tied and true PVR150 and PVR500? Well I'm pretty sure this means I'm SOL or rebuild with digital tuners. Even though it has drove me to drink on many occasions, I just can't give it up. It's been a hobby ingrained (maybe an addiction) in me now.

So I asked for help here in the forums picking new hardware. Here is the link:

Now, because I don't have unlimited funds, I ended up going with:
GIGABYTE GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 LGA
i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
2x Colossus
2x Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB

I also have an older 320GB and a 1TB drive from the current setup I'll be using.

First order of business, tear the old system down and shiny new one with Windows 7. I have to add this will be my first time using Windows 7. Been a faithful WinXP user through all the other Microsoft fiasco's.

Will be back after the hardware is put together and I have the basic system up and running. It might be a while. We're getting to the finale's of the fall seasons and it's also the Stanley Cup Playoffs!!!

If the moderators want to move this to a more appropriate section, that would be fine. I didn't know where to put it.

[jnmfox]

Good luck! Enjoy the ride

[keefb]

I've been there & done that several times over the years, starting with XP Media Center 2005, having to upgrade to Vista to get 1080p video card support (disaster) & finally to SageTV.

I was never really happy using a PC as the driver for the TV display because of incessant Windows & other updates, long boot times & issues with a "dual monitor" setup. The other problem I had was with reliably waking up the PC to record & then even more problems shutting it down afterwards. Also noise was a bit of an issue even using low speed CPU fan, a semi-fanless PSU & a convection cooled graphics card. The HDD noise was always there in the background together with the case fan noise. Not overly loud but noticeable, all the same.

I already had an always on WHS that was tucked away in another room so I thought that that was the best place to put the tuners & avoid the wake up & shut down issues I'd had with XP & Vista. I pursued the PC client for a while but, in the end, bought an HD200 as the client device. After a PC client, it's a revelation. It runs silently, boots up in about 10 secs, no regular updates, very reliable remote control & it plays everything that I've thrown at it and it plays it reliably at 1080p resolution.

If you use Win7 with Sage as a server then use an HD200/300 as the client you will have an easier to use system & also one that doesn't need high-end graphics or processor. You are best advised to use separate disks for recordings & the OS, but I think you are doing that anyway.

After messing around with various other PVR solutions on the server I completely reinstalled WHS from scratch. It took an age, but it was the best move I ever made. The WHS box has been rock solid. Sage has been rock solid, even using DVB link to control an unsupported DVB-T2 dual tuner.

Best of luck. It will be quite a exercise which will, no doubt, require much patience & copious quantities of beer!

[pvr599]

jmnfox - Thanks, I know it'll be fun

keefb - I started that way also. I had the server right next to the TV. I could not stand the whine and noise, so I cut a hole through the floor to the basement and everything but the HD200 will be down there. Right now the STB is next to the TV also. Not a big deal, but if I can get everything together, it'll be nice.

[pvr599]

Update - So I took some time tonight to the MB put together and ready to install. I can't stop thinking about how I want to get this going, but until the fall season shows come to an end I can't risk pissing off the household . So it's on hold for the time being.

[davephan]

Don't forget to take periodic images during the build process. If you can't put the money into Acronis or Ghost, you could use Clonezilla, which is free. If you have problems with the build, you can easily go back to the 'last known good' point in time. After the build is done, you should keep taking images periodically so you have a quick and easy recovery, especially if others in your family are depending on the SageTV computer working with very little downtime. With 'Murphy's Law', if you don't have an image, your computer will fail and it will take a long time to recover. If you do have an image, you aren't as likely to need it.

I recently rebuilt my Windows XP SageTV computer with Windows 7 64-bit. I used one of my three pack family Windows 7 upgrade licenses. I have both 32 and 64 bit installation DVDs with the family pack. The Windows 7 64-bit installation worked for me without any problems. If you have an Windows 7 upgrade version, it can be installed 'clean'. The 'clean' install workarounds can be found easily with a Google search.

http://www.mydigitallife.info/clean-...nk-hard-drive/

I also recommend setting the parameters in the Control Panel for 'fastest performance'. The graphics on the SageTV computer's local monitor will be a bit less refined, but you won't be wasting any processor power on something that is not needed for a headless SageTV computer.


Dave

[pvr599]

Ok so today I decided to go get my HDBoxes and get them setup and working with my USB-UIRT before I started the rebuild. I figured I have some time, I might as well get something out of the way. I have to admit, I remember having sooo much trouble with this part. After 4 hours, I finally figured out the best way.

Through the HD200, I setup the new tuner, I selected USB-UIRT as the tuning device and selected "add new". I went through programming the STB remote right through Sage. 0-9. Remembering to be within an inch of the USB-UIRT. After that I removed the tuner, exited out of Sage, went to the server and stopped the service (which I don't know if you HAVE to do this. I was just being safe).

On the server, I went to SageTV\Common\RemoteCodes and found the .ir file I created during the setup in Sage. Renamed the file to SA4250HDZ1.ir, then renamed the first line inside the file to the same as the file name. Then I added Z1 before every code. Saved the file and restarted the service and SageTV.

I went in and added the tuner again, picked SA4250HDZ1.ir from the tuning device, used an existing lineup, finished setup and there it was. PERFECT!!

Now when I setup my other HDbox, which is also a SA 4250HD, I will just make a copy of this file and change all the Z1's to Z2's and now have 2 working .ir files

Next step..backup Sage and everything else important to get ready for the rebuild.

[pvr599]

Davephan...thank for the tips. I do have Ghost and plan on using it like you said!!

[wayner]

Don't forget that OTA tuners can be very useful as well - you don't mention having them in your old system but they can be great to supplement your cable tuners and they are much easier to setup since you don't have to worry about channelchanges via IR. You're in a good location for OTA since you should also be able to get Windsor stations - very useful for hockey.

You could also reuse your old tuner cards with SD cable boxes as well.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by wayner

Don't forget that OTA tuners can be very useful as well - you don't mention having them in your old system but they can be great to supplement your cable tuners and they are much easier to setup since you don't have to worry about channelchanges via IR. You're in a good location for OTA since you should also be able to get Windsor stations - very useful for hockey.

You could also reuse your old tuner cards with SD cable boxes as well.

+1 OTA is awesome. I'm spoiled on PQ now though so when I get DirecTV I'll nitpick it to death. My wife gets irritated with me trying to point out things she'll never notice. Oh well.

[pvr599]

Wayner - Sorry to seem dumb here, but are when you talk about OTA tuner, are you talking about the HDHR?

I was thinking about using maybe my PVR150 for a SD STB I am getting for free, but I have to say the picture sucks. I mean it's connected via composite and not very clear at all. I've actually been running like this for a long time, just dealing with it. Well, I should say I've been switching back to my HDPVR to watch everything is real HD. Then going back to sage for the recordings from the HDHR and SD up in the bedroom since I don't care a ton about the picture.

Do either of you have the colossus? I have been following the thread everyday and know that some people are having problems with digital audio, but do you know what is being used to connect the HD200 (or any extender) to the TV? HDMI or component? Just wondering.

Thanks again for the tips!!

[wayner]

For OTA I do mean the HDHR or other OTA tuners. Don't forge that the best quality comes from OTA as cable/sat companies generally compress their signal which degrades the quality.

I don't have the Colossus but I do have the HD-PVR which is essentially the same thing as the Colossus except it is a USB device rather than an internal card. Yes there are problems with the Colossus but there really isn't a substantial benefit to use that rather than an HD-PVR except that it is slightly cheaper and it isn't another box outside your PC if you care about that.

[panteragstk]

Waiting for bugs to be ironed out before I get a colossus. There are certain things I don't mind beta testing, recording devices are not among those things.

[adone36]

I use the HDHomeruns. No hassle set up and they work perfectly with Sage. All of my basic HD channels are not scrambled. For the scrambled channels I have a TivoHD. The Tivo records HD premium content and as soon a recording is made it is transferred to a Sage directory and commercial skipped and viewed through Sage. When the SiliconDust cable card tuner comes out I might replace the Tivo with it.

You want Win 7 but you do not want "green" drives. Use black edition if you are going to record multiple streams at once.

[Audacity]

Originally Posted by adone36

You want Win 7 but you do not want "green" drives. Use black edition if you are going to record multiple streams at once.

Based on benchmarks and my personal experience, green drives are just fine with multiple streams at once.

Just so I'm not talking out of my ass, I'll cite some data:

The Tech Report



At 71 megabytes a second, sequential data writes are pretty good for the 2TB "green" drive. If a HD recording is going at ~15 megabits/sec (1.875 megabytes/sec), then you should be able to write quite a few concurrent recordings. Sure, due to seek times you probably won't get anywhere near the theoretical ~37 concurrent HD recordings, but I bet you could get half that. Especially when you don't have other processes accessing that drive.

Back when I was using 7MC, I had 5 concurrent recordings being recorded on a single 2TB green drive and everything was fine and the disk queue length averaged around 0.25. I haven't tested with SageTV on a single green drive (I have it spreading recordings among two drives), but I doubt the performance would be much different from 7MC.

But, to be fair, maybe you have some evidence to backup your statement that the "green" drives cannot handle multiple concurrent recordings. If so, I'm interested in seeing it.

[panteragstk]

Using black drives over green seems to be a common misconception. If you are worried about overloading a recording drive you should use multiple drives. The difference between transfer rates of 2tb black vs 2tb green is not enough to warrant the price difference for use in sage.



On this graph it shows a 15Mbps difference. With an average of 93Mbps you would have to record 45 16.5mbps streams (in theory) to saturate the drive.

The only reason you would ever see any performance issues would be when recording and watching multiple streams at the same time. In that situation it wouldn't matter what drive you had it would be hard to keep up.

[stevech]

"The Tivo records HD premium content and as soon a recording is made it is transferred to a Sage directory "

Please explain how this is done. The TiVo can be an SMB network drive? And videos are H.264?

[Wirenut]

I have a single 1TB Green Drive that handles recording 4HD feeds at a time, never once stumbled. 2HD programs from an HDHR and 2HD programs from HDPVR's. This is whilst viewing a 5th HD program concurrently. I've read a lot about the "green drive issue" but have yet to experience any difficulty what so ever.

Wirenut

[barney B.A.]

I haven't had any problems with my green drives either

[stevech]

Originally Posted by stevech

"The Tivo records HD premium content and as soon a recording is made it is transferred to a Sage directory "

Please explain how this is done. The TiVo can be an SMB network drive? And videos are H.264?

This thead deviated to green drives. I'd appreciate knowing about the above.