Ideas for a Music UI mod.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

What I think might actually be required for the playlist improvement is a tree structure on the left (or even a fly-out menu to overlay), with the covers on the right, similar to J. River (which someone else already mentioned, but I've never used personally). I think what we would need is a menu popup when scrolling down the tree, so that we could easily create playlists. At any point in the scrolling, you could hit "menu" or some other button and you would have the option to add that folder to a playlist, that folder and all subs, all by that artist, all from that album, etc. Additionally, you could have a very similar set of "play" options. I'd also like to be able to insert things into the currently playing playlist so that it plays next, as well as adding them to a new playlist or to the end of the current one.

You mean something like this?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by cncb

You mean something like this?

Something similar yes. I would have to tweak it to work in all menu levels. ie. if you were browsing artists it would ask you if you want to add the artist you have highlighted. If you select the artist an album list comes up and the option changes to add album and artist. Basically the further into the album/artist folder structure the menu option would change.

[Skirge01]

@cnbc: Yep, that's the basic idea for the menu.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Something similar yes. I would have to tweak it to work in all menu levels. ie. if you were browsing artists it would ask you if you want to add the artist you have highlighted. If you select the artist an album list comes up and the option changes to add album and artist. Basically the further into the album/artist folder structure the menu option would change.

Exactly! I'd also think that cover art would be something users would NOT want on the tree for three reasons. First, the artwork is on the wall behind the menu. Second, you can get more text on the screen without the artwork showing. Third, it's sure to be faster to scroll through it.

One thing that comes to mind now, particularly for my annual New Year's Eve party, is that I may only want people to be able to append to the end of the playlist, rather than preempting what I or someone else has already added by inserting their choices. Since we're doing the entire design phase, I thought I'd throw that out there. Some other people might even want to be able to lock out playlist changes entirely.

I think we're delving into database work here, but, like ptzink, I'd also love to see playback options based on how often it's played back or music which was recently added.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I would have to tweak it to work in all menu levels. ie. if you were browsing artists it would ask you if you want to add the artist you have highlighted. If you select the artist an album list comes up and the option changes to add album and artist. Basically the further into the album/artist folder structure the menu option would change.

Just to clarify, one of the nice things about JRMC is you can set up views that filter in any way you want at multiple levels. So, in the plugin screenshot example this view filters by Genre, Artist, and then Album. At the first level I chose "Rock/Pop", so now it is showing me all albums in this genre. If I chose Play at this level it would play songs from all Bruce Hornsby albums. If I instead selected/drilled down into Bruce Hornsby it would list his albums individually. Anywhere along the way in the navigation of the filters/tree you can play all the songs under the given item/category.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

@cnbc: Yep, that's the basic idea for the menu.



Exactly! I'd also think that cover art would be something users would NOT want on the tree for three reasons. First, the artwork is on the wall behind the menu. Second, you can get more text on the screen without the artwork showing. Third, it's sure to be faster to scroll through it.

One thing that comes to mind now, particularly for my annual New Year's Eve party, is that I may only want people to be able to append to the end of the playlist, rather than preempting what I or someone else has already added by inserting their choices. Since we're doing the entire design phase, I thought I'd throw that out there. Some other people might even want to be able to lock out playlist changes entirely.

I think we're delving into database work here, but, like ptzink, I'd also love to see playback options based on how often it's played back or music which was recently added.

I agree that when adding a song to a playlist it should be added last similar to the way an actual jukebox works.

As far as working with databases I think I know someone who is very skilled at databases...I think he has enough on his plate at the moment.

In the beginning this project will be more about the way the ui looks and navigates than anything else. I'll be adding functionality as I get better at using studio.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by cncb

Just to clarify, one of the nice things about JRMC is you can set up views that filter in any way you want at multiple levels. So, in the plugin screenshot example this view filters by Genre, Artist, and then Album. At the first level I chose "Rock/Pop", so now it is showing me all albums in this genre. If I chose Play at this level it would play songs from all Bruce Hornsby albums. If I instead selected/drilled down into Bruce Hornsby it would list his albums individually. Anywhere along the way in the navigation of the filters/tree you can play all the songs under the given item/category.

Doesn't the jrmc plugin require jrmc? I just want to be ale to make sage functionality better with music without relying on an external program. This is pre alpha so there are only ideas at this point.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I just want to be ale to make sage functionality better with music without relying on an external program. This is pre alpha so there are only ideas at this point.

I understand. JRMC was brought up by Skirge01 so I was just trying to explain and show how it works and its flexibility in case you wanted to consider some of that functionality in your mod.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by cncb

I understand. JRMC was brought up by Skirge01 so I was just trying to explain and show how it works and its flexibility in case you wanted to consider some of that functionality in your mod.

Thanks for the suggestion. I hope I didn't sound rude. I greatly appreciate your input. I'm going to add as much functionality as possible to this mod, and you obviously have more experience with that sort of thing than me. When starting your mod where did you start? I was thinking about taking the current music screen and building off of it, but plucky suggested to start from scratch. With the changes I plan to make I think plucky is right.

[panteragstk]

These screenshots are the two things I actually like about Windows Media Center.



I like this view better than the stock now playing screen. Sage's is nice, just not like that.



This one is pretty close, but again when viewing by artist in sage it looks just as good. It's when you get to the album sub-menu that I think that a similar "wall" view would look better. Fanart would really help also. Think of this picture, but like smm the background changes depending on the artist you are highlighting at the time.

I'm going to look for more screenshots and if anybody else has any that would be great.

[wado1971]

I recently tried out the jriver plugin and found the navigation & interface better than the sage default. I've switched back to the default because I didn't like having another program running (and it caused some issues) but the one aspect I miss is easily tagging the rating. Everytime I skipped a crappy song I'd simply tag it crap prior to skip - kinda cool.

Visualizations on a client would be very cool. I'm sick of looking at the album art bump around my screen.

[panteragstk]

This is also a good playback screen.

http://www.jriver.com/images/slideshow/love.jpg

As well as a good artist/album browsing screen.



this is a good album screen.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by wado1971

I recently tried out the jriver plugin and found the navigation & interface better than the sage default. I've switched back to the default because I didn't like having another program running (and it caused some issues) but the one aspect I miss is easily tagging the rating. Everytime I skipped a crappy song I'd simply tag it crap prior to skip - kinda cool.

Visualizations on a client would be very cool. I'm sick of looking at the album art bump around my screen.

I like what I've seen of the jriver plugin too, I'm going to see if I can include some sort of rating system as well. I like the idea of sage knowing what I like. Maybe set it up similar to the way pandora works. Select an artist and it will select similar ones. Sounds good, but difficult. I'm going to take a look at the scrobbler plugin to see what it can do. EDIT: I looked and it seems like that would work great. This is getting to be pretty big.

I use a client/server setup now so that is a big one for me too. I'm going to have to grab an extender to make sure everything works well on those to.

[panteragstk]

List views are always good too.



A few visualizations screens.





I like the second without the panel on the left.

Another now playing screen.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

When starting your mod where did you start? I was thinking about taking the current music screen and building off of it, but plucky suggested to start from scratch. With the changes I plan to make I think plucky is right.

Well, I started from my Sage v6 plugin but I started that one from scratch so I would agree with that sentiment. It looks like you will be very busy. Good luck.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by cncb

Well, I started from my Sage v6 plugin but I started that one from scratch so I would agree with that sentiment. It looks like you will be very busy. Good luck.

Thanks. I'll need it.

I'm thinking this will have to be done in stages. I'll get the ui first, then add functionality later. Basically just redo the sage music ui and keep the current functionality then add things in.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

...I'm going to see if I can include some sort of rating system as well.

Executive summary:
Just pick one (or allow a choice of tags) of the common metadata tags that are used for ratings and use that. Don't tie me to a new database for ratings

The long version:
ID3/flac/etc tags can contain rating info quite easily. The problem is there are several competing tags. WMP uses one tag, songbird uses another. I'm not sure what JRMC or Monkey use, but it could be one of the previous, another tag, or an internal database. I have no idea what iTunes uses, but I'm not a herd animal, so there is no iAnything on my system!

There are 2 schools of thought as far as tagging the rating into the file. The first school of thought is that the rating is "user subjective" so it does not belong in the file metadata and should be stored in a separate database. This made a sort of sense in the wild west Napster/Edonkey days when music sharing was rampant (and it still is, just not nearly as easy for the non-tech savvy users), but I really don't see the need to "protect" others from my ratings or to be "protected" from other peoples ratings; I don't share my library and if I choose to acquire music from an illicit source, I'm going to strip all the metadata and retag it anyway. The other downside to separate databases is when you decide to try a new audio player and there is no import/export functionality for your ratings. Now your stuck with whatever player you have been using, or you get to re-rate your entire library.

The flipside is that the music is mine, I payed for it, I ripped it, I'm not sharing it, I don't want to be limited to one music application so I'd rather have the rating embedded in the file.

I fall in the second category, and prefer having the rating in the file. Now I just need to find or write a script/program that can copy ratings from one tag to another if I change players.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Executive summary:
Just pick one (or allow a choice of tags) of the common metadata tags that are used for ratings and use that. Don't tie me to a new database for ratings

The long version:
ID3/flac/etc tags can contain rating info quite easily. The problem is there are several competing tags. WMP uses one tag, songbird uses another. I'm not sure what JRMC or Monkey use, but it could be one of the previous, another tag, or an internal database. I have no idea what iTunes uses, but I'm not a herd animal, so there is no iAnything on my system!

There are 2 schools of thought as far as tagging the rating into the file. The first school of thought is that the rating is "user subjective" so it does not belong in the file metadata and should be stored in a separate database. This made a sort of sense in the wild west Napster/Edonkey days when music sharing was rampant (and it still is, just not nearly as easy for the non-tech savvy users), but I really don't see the need to "protect" others from my ratings or to be "protected" from other peoples ratings; I don't share my library and if I choose to acquire music from an illicit source, I'm going to strip all the metadata and retag it anyway. The other downside to separate databases is when you decide to try a new audio player and there is no import/export functionality for your ratings. Now your stuck with whatever player you have been using, or you get to re-rate your entire library.

The flipside is that the music is mine, I payed for it, I ripped it, I'm not sharing it, I don't want to be limited to one music application so I'd rather have the rating embedded in the file.

I fall in the second category, and prefer having the rating in the file. Now I just need to find or write a script/program that can copy ratings from one tag to another if I change players.

Interesting. To be honest I don't really care about the rating of the actual song. I'm more looking for something that will learn what I listen to and be able to play it for me. Ratings are good for that sort of thing, but at the same time will require lots of ratings (think netflix) to do any good. I'm not tied to any one player like itunes or anything. I use winamp (and have since it came out) to play music, but I just import playlists I've made or folders for albums I feel like listening to. Tagging is very important and I've spent a lot of time figuring out the best method of getting the job done to where any program that supports id3 tags will be able to read the metadata. I have no interest in using a new database to fetch metadata for existing files.

I like things to be simple, work well, and look cool doing it. That is what I'm going for. The current functionality of the music ui is fine except for a few things I'd like to change as far as the way it looks. Once I get to that point I plan to add extra things like internet radio, rating systems, smart playlists, fanart, and tagging for those that want it. I've got a pretty good idea of where I want things to go. As far as the way you other guys want things, I need as much input as possible. A little help wouldn't hurt either.

[Spectrum]

Whoops, I misunderstood your intent entirely! I read it as using individual track ratings and then extending that to something Pandora-esk like what you mentioned in your reply. My reading comprehension skills seem to be deteriorating; I blame it on the C++ code I have had to write lately

I don't know java or studio, so I would stink as a dev for Sage, but I would be willing to help beta test and provide feedback and crash logs as things progress if you need another tester.

[joe123]

Am I the only one who thinks having Lyrics (scrolling when too big to fit) would be a great idea to have when listening to a song?

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by joe123

Am I the only one who thinks having Lyrics (scrolling when too big to fit) would be a great idea to have when listening to a song?

Nope, your definately not alone thinking this! I'd love to see lyrics implemented as an optional screensaver/visualization.

-PGPfan