v7 Plugin Manager Suggestions

[wrems]

The plugin in manager is awesome. I have a couple of suggestions that I think could make it better.

First, hitting the right button should advance to the next major category/section (General, Full UI, UI Mod, Theme etc) regardless of where one is on the screen. Right now if one is on a particular plugin, the plugin details come up. Plugin details are already available if one clicks enter on that plugin. I would rather replace that for faster navigation of the plugin manager and jump to the next category instead of having to go all the way back up to the top then click to the right then click enter. It would be much faster and more intuitive. Almost every time I want to advance to the next category I click to the right only to be presented with the plugin details rather then proceed to the next category.

Second, have some way to filter or group by developer. Most of the time I know from reading the forums who developed the plugin I’m looking for more than the specific name of the plugin or what category it may fall under. It would be faster in my opinion if I could cluster them together by developer and go directly to the developer I think created what I’m looking for. Right now there’s a lot of plugins and it can get time consuming to look for a particular plugin especially when I can’t remember exactly the name of it or what section it falls under. If I could show all plugins by a developer, maybe selectable from a list kind of like the Top Contributors section of the download section in this forum. http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/downloads.php

What do you guys think? Good idea’s? Can these ideas implemented or expanded?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wrems

The plugin in manager is awesome. I have a couple of suggestions that I think could make it better.

First, hitting the right button should advance to the next major category/section (General, Full UI, UI Mod, Theme etc) regardless of where one is on the screen. Right now if one is on a particular plugin, the plugin details come up. Plugin details are already available if one clicks enter on that plugin. I would rather replace that for faster navigation of the plugin manager and jump to the next category instead of having to go all the way back up to the top then click to the right then click enter. It would be much faster and more intuitive. Almost every time I want to advance to the next category I click to the right only to be presented with the plugin details rather then proceed to the next category.

If you are familiar with the Malore menus, then you will find that SkpFwd2 and SkpBkd2 will change categories (just as it does in malore)

Originally Posted by wrems

Second, have some way to filter or group by developer. Most of the time I know from reading the forums who developed the plugin I’m looking for more than the specific name of the plugin or what category it may fall under. It would be faster in my opinion if I could cluster them together by developer and go directly to the developer I think created what I’m looking for. Right now there’s a lot of plugins and it can get time consuming to look for a particular plugin especially when I can’t remember exactly the name of it or what section it falls under. If I could show all plugins by a developer, maybe selectable from a list kind of like the Top Contributors section of the download section in this forum. http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/downloads.php

You can change the sort order, and sort it by author. Choose the 'ALL' category, and pageup/pagedown to get to the name.

[wado1971]

I agree with the enter/right arrow navigation suggestion - I consistently get that one wrong. I know about the ff/rew feature but I guess I'm too lazy to take my finger off the ok/arrow position - it means taking my eyes off the screen to navigate.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wado1971

I agree with the enter/right arrow navigation suggestion - I consistently get that one wrong. I know about the ff/rew feature but I guess I'm too lazy to take my finger off the ok/arrow position - it means taking my eyes off the screen to navigate.

Oh, I'm not saying it isnt' a good idea, I'm jsut saying that the reason they didn't do it was so that the navigation was consitant throughout the UI. Right always goes into more details everywhere else in the UI. I honestly think things would be easier if they simply added helper icons for things like that. Put a >>| and |<< icon on either side of the category bar, and the confusion would be alleviated.

[gveres]

I have another suggestion:

Let me acknowledge and then hide the plugins I don't want. There are many plugins now and this navigation doesn't work well when there are so many. I would love a way to hide a plugin that I am not going to install. I don't mind it coming back into the "available" list if the developer releases a new version because maybe I didn't want to use it because it was missing a feature and now the developer added the feature and I want to use it now.

For instance, I am getting tired of alway seeing the 24 hour Clock plugin, not because I think ill of tmiranda, but because i know that I don't like 24 hour clocks. I would like to clean up the list by saying I want it hidden.

Greg

[wrems]

Yeah, that's not a bad suggestion. I like that one too. That's been my sort of frustration is that because so many plugins are being created it's almost overwhelming.

[toricred]

I really like that idea as well. I'm also right there with you on navigating between categories. Since I don't use Malore, I never would have thought of ff2/rew2.

[sleonard]

Is there a good reason all the component pieces of various plugins are in the list? It would go a long way to reducing the length that one has to scroll thru if all the individual dependencies were hidden.

S

[Brent]

I'm going to use this thread to put down my thoughts that echo those above as well as others who have mentioned things they would like to see changed/improved in the SageTV 7 plugin manager. Here's my first stab at a list:

1. Make browsing plugins much easier to navigate - clean up the look, possibly add a two-pane view by default
2. Add tags for plugins to help sort through plugins. Or a better plugin category method
3. Add ability to rate plugins and sort by highest rated
4. Track downloads for plugins and show # of downloads in the UI with ability to sort by most downloaded
5. Hide those "plugins" that are simply dependencies - right now they just clutter up things
6. Have a "new release" view that shows any plugins that are new or recently updated within the last # of days. This would help in my request I made here
7. Require a website link and screenshot for ALL plugins. I find way too many plugins where developers left this out. Even if it's a dead-simple plugin we as users need a way to learn more about the plugin, discuss, ask questions etc. Screenshots are always helpful as well.

What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

Other thoughts:
How about a SageTV Spotlight Channel on the Online Videos that has screen-cast previews of some of the more popular plugins. Just thinking outside of the box.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Brent

Require a website link and screenshot for ALL plugins. I find way too many plugins where developers left this out. Even if it's a dead-simple plugin we as users need a way to learn more about the plugin, discuss, ask questions etc. Screenshots are always helpful as well.

While I agree with your list... I'm not sure "requiring" a screenshoot for all plugins is feasible. For example, phoenix-core provides very necessary services for other plugins, including providing some automation services for metadata/fanart, but it does not in any way extend the UI. So I guess a screen shot here might include a shot of my eclipse development environment showing some some source code, which is not really helpful

I do think that plugins should try to provider a website link, which is probably just link back to the forums, although it doesn't really help much when you are browsing the plugins via the plugin manager. The one issue here though is that many times a developer doesn't create the forum post to discuss the plugin until AFTER the plugin is released, so that information is not known when the plugin is created.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by stuckless

While I agree with your list... I'm not sure "requiring" a screenshoot for all plugins is feasible. ..... So I guess a screen shot here might include a shot of my eclipse development environment showing some some source code, which is not really helpful

Or a pic of the developer Okay, you're right - scratch the requirement for screenshot.

I do think that plugins should try to provider a website link, which is probably just link back to the forums, although it doesn't really help much when you are browsing the plugins via the plugin manager. The one issue here though is that many times a developer doesn't create the forum post to discuss the plugin until AFTER the plugin is released, so that information is not known when the plugin is created.

I would guess most of us do have at least one computer with SageTV on it. It's just nice to be able to quickly get to the forum thread. I'd suggest posting a "more info coming" thread even if the developer doesn't put anything in it before uploading the plugin.

[wrems]

I’ll throw out another possible area for improvement.

How about standardizing/shortening the url’s associated with each plugin? Something a little more friendly and easier to follow. I know that TinyURL.com has the ability to make custom urls. I think it would be easier to follow a standardized url that could contain the plugin name or at least a shorter one than what is currently there. Here’s one example of how it’s currently displayed:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/down...do=file&id=141

Otherwise, there’s bit.ly too.

I know it’s a small detail but something easy to change...

[briands]

Originally Posted by stuckless

While I agree with your list... I'm not sure "requiring" a screenshoot for all plugins is feasible. For example, phoenix-core provides very necessary services for other plugins, including providing some automation services for metadata/fanart, but it does not in any way extend the UI. So I guess a screen shot here might include a shot of my eclipse development environment showing some some source code, which is not really helpful

I do think that plugins should try to provider a website link, which is probably just link back to the forums, although it doesn't really help much when you are browsing the plugins via the plugin manager. The one issue here though is that many times a developer doesn't create the forum post to discuss the plugin until AFTER the plugin is released, so that information is not known when the plugin is created.

Wouldn't this fall under #5 (Hide those "plugins" that are simply dependencies - right now they just clutter up things) for now?

[briands]

Having just gotten a droid phone, I like the way it's apps show the permissions prior to installing.

Some possible areas of concern - Not an expert by any means, but

Plug-in will access the internet
Plug-in will open a port in your firewall
Plug-in will add data to your WIZ.bin
Plug-in will MODIFY and or DELETE data from your WIZ.bin
Plug-in will delete files
Plug in may overwrite existing files
Plug-in will scour your network for personal information and send to the developer
Plug in will transfer bank balances to developer...

[tmiranda]

Plug-in will behave strangely because developer likes to play with your mind.

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Plug-in will behave strangely because developer likes to play with your mind.

This! LOL

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by briands

Wouldn't this fall under #5 (Hide those "plugins" that are simply dependencies - right now they just clutter up things) for now?

Not quite... phoenix-core provides functionlay, which is the automatic retrieval of fanart and metadata when new media is added to your collection, without user interaction. BMT simply puts a web front end on those services. So, people could install phoenix-core if all they want is automatic metadata/fanart. phoenix-api on the other hand would be like #5, since it only provides api calls and doesn't provide any features on it's own. (hope that clears up the difference)

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Brent

Track downloads for plugins and show # of downloads in the UI with ability to sort by most downloaded

I vote no on this one. A plugin's popularity is not a good measure of its usefulness or reliability. A mature, stable plugin gets fewer downloads than a buggy plugin that requires lots of updates. Sorting by popularity just makes it worse by creating a bandwagon effect, where popular plugins become even more popular just from being at the top of the list. It also raises the possibility of plugin devs running download bots to pump up their numbers and make their plugins look good.

Originally Posted by Brent

Have a "new release" view that shows any plugins that are new or recently updated within the last # of days.

You can already sort by Recently Changed.

Originally Posted by Brent

Require a website link and screenshot for ALL plugins.

No. Some plugin devs will provide good documentation; others won't. That's not something you can fix with bureaucratic rules.

Originally Posted by briands

Having just gotten a droid phone, I like the way it's apps show the permissions prior to installing.

There are no permissions as such in the V7 plugin system. Plugins can do pretty much whatever they want, and the SageTV core has no control over that. So to generate such a permissions list you'd have to trust the plugin devs to tell you honestly what their plugin is going to do, and if you're going to trust them that much, then what's the point of having a permissions list?

If you're paranoid about plugins, use only plugins that come with source code, so you can see for yourself exactly what it does.

[Brent]

Greg,
I guess my response to your response is this:
I personally want SageTV to strive to be easy to use, a great end-user product. One that has the underpinnings of the powerful MythTV customization ability but with a much easier usability. That's where I'm coming from. I think you are coming from the "why make more rules" side of things and thinking it's fine - it's all there the user just has to figure it out on their own. This is fine if we want this HTPC thing to be just for programmers but me being a non-programmer.....

[cncb]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I vote no on this one. A plugin's popularity is not a good measure of its usefulness or reliability. A mature, stable plugin gets fewer downloads than a buggy plugin that requires lots of updates. Sorting by popularity just makes it worse by creating a bandwagon effect, where popular plugins become even more popular just from being at the top of the list.

As a developer of plugins that don't get downloaded much I agree with the jist of your sentiment but I don't think there is harm in allowing "popularity" as a sort type. Frankly, I can't imagine using this as a criteria for downloading a plugin but that's just me. This would be one of many sort types to use and the same could be said of sorting by "Recently changed" (plugin might often have updates because it is buggy, etc.).