Usability: Plugin manager

[bastafidli]

HI,

I have been using Sage for 2.5 years but never tried plug ins since I never wanted to commit spending enough time to mess with it and make it work. With v7 the new plugin manager is completely awesome. It makes super simple to install and try new plugins. But unfortunately as many other areas of Sage it was designed by engineers for engineers (and that is coming from an engineer so please don't take it as insult.

Categories such as: General, Full UI, UI Mod, Library make no sense to normal user

Normal user wants a plug in to enhance or modify some functionality of Sage and I would therefore suggest to change the categories around the functionality the plugin is enhancing or changing such as:
TV, Music, Online, Search, Monitoring, Usability, Look&Feel
with plugins possibly spanning multiple categories.

[darcilicious]

+1 (coming from another engineer )

[GKusnick]

Personally I just leave it set to All 90% of the time.

I can see that there might be value in being able to do some sort of keyword search on the plugin descriptions. But I'm skeptical of trying to pick one set of functional keywords and enshrine them as the definitive list of categories that plugins must be shoehorned into.

On the other hand I find it hard to imagine a "normal user" (whatever that means) who wants to change the way that (say) the TV menu works, but sees no difference between a UI mod and a full-blown replacement UI in accomplishing that goal. That seems a bit like wanting to update your kitchen, but not caring whether you talk to a contractor or a real-estate agent to get it done. So I think it does make some sense to categorize plugins by the kind of job they do (UI mod, full UI, background process, class library), rather than by the specific screens they do it to.

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

...and that is coming from an engineer...

Don't worry, we won't hold it against you.

(As a physicist, I am obligated to take jabs at engineers whenever the opportunity presents itself. It's in the oath.)

Aloha,
Mike

[davidk21770]

+1!!!

I'd also like a way to see just new plugins -- or added within some timeline (say last n weeks). Having to go through the whole list to see what's new is not only tedious, but I sometimes miss some of what I'm looking for!

[JREkiwi]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

I'd also like a way to see just new plugins -- or added within some timeline (say last n weeks).

You mean like the sort options on the plugin panel?

John

[tmiranda]

I like the idea of grouping around functionality. Good idea bastafidli.

[davidk21770]

Originally Posted by JREkiwi

You mean like the sort options on the plugin panel?

John

uh, yea, like that... (I'm not used to considering the text fields as buttons ).

[derelicte1]

one thing I dislike about the plugin manager is the navigation is terrible, especially as more and more plugins are added. there doesn't appear to be any easy way to move from category to category with a remote without scrolling all the way to the top of the list.

imo, this is one place where sage's left/right navigation system fails.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by derelicte1

one thing I dislike about the plugin manager is the navigation is terrible, especially as more and more plugins are added. there doesn't appear to be any easy way to move from category to category with a remote without scrolling all the way to the top of the list.

Use Smooth FF/REW or FF2/REW2. That shortcut is used on almost all menus with a category bar across the top, or even when there are multiple views w/o a category bar such as the imported media browsers, SageTV Recordings, the Recording Schedule, etc.

- Andy

[derelicte1]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Use Smooth FF/REW or FF2/REW2. That shortcut is used on almost all menus with a category bar across the top, or even when there are multiple views w/o a category bar such as the imported media browsers, SageTV Recordings, the Recording Schedule, etc.

- Andy

ah! thank you!

are these buttons on the mce remotes?

[tchapin]

Also, there should be a category for "background / dev" plugins that should "never" need to be downloaded manually by the user, since they are pre-requisites for other plugins that are downloaded and installed at the same time as those plugins.

Having them mixed in with the user usable / installable plugins clutters up the list.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by tchapin

Also, there should be a category for "background / dev" plugins that should "never" need to be downloaded manually by the user, since they are pre-requisites for other plugins that are downloaded and installed at the same time as those plugins.

That's what the Libraries category is supposed to be for.

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Use Smooth FF/REW or FF2/REW2. That shortcut is used on almost all menus with a category bar across the top, or even when there are multiple views w/o a category bar such as the imported media browsers, SageTV Recordings, the Recording Schedule, etc.

- Andy

I actually like how the Sage 7 can be more and more navigated just with the 4 arrow buttons + OK. If the categories can be somehow moved to the left side, then I could use left/right to move between categories and list and up/down to move within categories and list. That is true for all screens (music/photos/...).

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

That's what the Libraries category is supposed to be for.

Which 99% of users have 0 use for :-). It is interesting for me as developer to see what libraries are plugins using, but if I show it to my wife or mom they would just roll their eyes.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

...but if I show it to my wife or mom they would just roll their eyes.

That's probably true of the entire plugin manager, and maybe even the Detailed Setup screen as well.

[davidk21770]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Use Smooth FF/REW or FF2/REW2. That shortcut is used on almost all menus with a category bar across the top, or even when there are multiple views w/o a category bar such as the imported media browsers, SageTV Recordings, the Recording Schedule, etc.

- Andy

Is this the old plugin or a new sage setting. If it overrides the jump ff/rw, then you're asking me to switch to an operation that I don't really like. This should work properly with default settings.

[blade]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

Is this the old plugin or a new sage setting.

The Smooth RW/FW and FF2/REW2 are commands that have been in Sage for years that can be mapped to the remote in the Commands section of Detailed Setup.

If it overrides the jump ff/rw, then you're asking me to switch to an operation that I don't really like. This should work properly with default settings.

There are literally thousands of remotes that can be used with Sage and each one can have pretty much any button mapped to any command. So it's not really possible to have those functions be the "default settings" for every possible combination someone may use.

If you're talking about default for the HD Extenders the commands are the default on the remote.

Every remote I've ever used with Sage had 2 FF and RW buttons. So I've always had FF/Rew and FF2/Rew2 mapped. The only way I'd see it not already being setup on a remote is if someone only had 1 set of FF/Rew buttons.

[Fuzzy]

On all the remotes I've used, there have always been FF/RW (>>, <<) and FF2/RW2 (>>|, |<<). I, personally, am used to using FF2/RW2 to change category headings, but that is mostly from using the malore recordings screen (how's that v7 version coming along, Andy). It is easy once you are used to it, but I, like others, believe sage needs some sort of icon assistance on screen (put a |<< and >>| icon at each end of the category screen or something).

[davidk21770]

Originally Posted by blade

The Smooth RW/FW and FF2/REW2 are commands that have been in Sage for years that can be mapped to the remote in the Commands section of Detailed Setup.



There are literally thousands of remotes that can be used with Sage and each one can have pretty much any button mapped to any command. So it's not really possible to have those functions be the "default settings" for every possible combination someone may use.

If you're talking about default for the HD Extenders the commands are the default on the remote.

Every remote I've ever used with Sage had 2 FF and RW buttons. So I've always had FF/Rew and FF2/Rew2 mapped. The only way I'd see it not already being setup on a remote is if someone only had 1 set of FF/Rew buttons.

I have them set to ff/rw-short-jump and ff/rw-long-jump. I really didn't like the smooth ff/rw when I tried it a long time back. I find the jumps are much more controllable.