yet another noob with his stupid questions

[crusader]

Hi,

Introduction:
- I am a "techie" (C++ developer with >10 years of experience on Win/Linux/etc... heck, even SGI Irix )
- also I am newb (in SageTV area) who suddenly decided to make dramatic shift from Comcast DVR to something more advanced (in fact I am quite new in US, moved from Australia ~1.5 years ago and a lot of TV-related things are still new to me)
- I've spent last few days studying and chose SageTV as the best-looking platform for my needs. I did go through hundreds of webpages and various FAQs and hope I don't ask too stupid questions.

In my imagination my system will look like:
- server with SageTV Media Center software in the closet
- 1Gb network with HDHomeRun for ClearQAM & OTA
- HD200 (extender) siting next to my plasma screen and hooked up into NAD T747 AV Receiver
- (optional) BlueRay/DVD player next hooked to receiver

Of course you can't learn everything in just few days -- there are always questions (which I hope you guys will help me with :-) ):
1. will SageTV Media Center install on XP?
2. it looks like EPG is free of charge -- is it true?
3. my AV receiver is very good at upconverting video -- is it possible to configure SageTV/HD200 to send video in "native resolution" of the media that produces it?
4. pass-through for audio -- I would really like sound not to be touched in any way on the path from source to receiver (though I think I've read that high-end formats will be downmixed :-( ) Can you share with me some details on that?
5. can PS3 serve as extender for SageTV?
6. DRM: does SageTV adheres to infamous 'broadcast flag' (like WMC does)? Does it follow other DRM rules like copy-once/no-copy?
7. Can I configure "live" commercial skip? (I know it is possible in recorded shows)
8. does extender work with Netflix/Hulu/etc? (I know about PlayOn add-on -- not sure if it works with extender, actually not sure if it works :-) )
9. does extender support web browsing?
10. In fact what extender can not do that can be done by Sage client running locally on the PC?
11. HD200 can play ripped DVD/BR -- can it play actual DVD/BR in Sage server's drive? (i.e. do I actually *have* to have parallel BR player?)
12. as I understand there is no way I could access provider's VOD without provider's DVR (and then it is a PITA to attach it to SageTV) -- am I correct? (my provider is Comcast)
13. what remote would you recommend for my setup?
14. imho if I am to get rid of Comcast DVR -- I'll need to replace it with Comcast STB (that will decode encrypted channels) hooked into tuner card (or HD-PVR) connected to PC. Am I correct?
14a. does each STB represent just one tuner? (i.e. one channel only)
14b. does STB also perform TA functions to fix "SDV problem"
14c. how to explain cable provider that I want STB instead of their DVR (i.e. what magic words to use)? Any ideas how much they charge for it?
15. assuming that I won't have access to Comcast VOD it seems logical to switch to smth else (like Dish), in which case it makes sense to look at Nextcom R5000-HD. Did anyone had any experience with it?:
15a. it looks like a modification kit to provider's STB -- does this mean I have to buy STB too? Or I pay ~$500 for modified STB and insert provider's SCARD/etc into it?
15b. will this solution work as a single tuner only? (i.e. one channel)
15c. what provider will you suggest in this case? Nextcom's web-site is a bit sketchy on details of support
15d. what catches/drawbacks/problems I can expect from R5000?
16. What do you think about these 'on-the-wall' HD antennas sold at Amazon?

Apologies for this quite long post and thank you for help.

Sincerely yours,
Michael.

[peternm22]

Welcome aboard. I've answered all the questions I can below. Hopefully someone else can chime in on the other questions.

1. will SageTV Media Center install on XP?

Yes.

2. it looks like EPG is free of charge -- is it true?

Yes.

5. can PS3 serve as extender for SageTV?

No, not directly. If the PS3 can watch videos on a network, it would be possible to view the Sage recordings on the PS3. But there isn't a full SageTV interface for the PS3.

6. DRM: does SageTV adheres to infamous 'broadcast flag' (like WMC does)? Does it follow other DRM rules like copy-once/no-copy?

No DRM in any Sage recordings. I believe you are referring to firewire recordings for copy-once/no-copy. If that's the case, then they can't be recorded at all in SageTV. Only content that is marked a copy freely. (varies by cable provider)

7. Can I configure "live" commercial skip? (I know it is possible in recorded shows)

Sure can. Comskip and Showanalyzer can be set to scan for commercials as the files are being recorded. You don't need to wait until the recording is over for commercial skip to work.

9. does extender support web browsing?

No. There are some streaming/online videos you can view directly on the extender, but there isn't an actually web browser.

10. In fact what extender can not do that can be done by Sage client running locally on the PC?

As far as built in SageTV functionality, I'm pretty sure it can do everything a Sage client PC can. The one exception would be playing DVD's directly from a DVD drive, you can only do that on a client PC. Other PC tasks like web browsing aren't supported. You run the exact same interfaces (called STV's) on the extender as you do on the client.

11. HD200 can play ripped DVD/BR -- can it play actual DVD/BR in Sage server's drive? (i.e. do I actually *have* to have parallel BR player?)

No you can't. The extender can't play back any DRM material.

13. what remote would you recommend for my setup?

I use a Harmony 670. But pretty much anything will work. You can program the HD200 to accept most remote controls commands, so it's really up to you which remote you want (more buttons is always nice though).

14. imho if I am to get rid of Comcast DVR -- I'll need to replace it with Comcast STB (that will decode encrypted channels) hooked into tuner card (or HD-PVR) connected to PC. Am I correct?
14a. does each STB represent just one tuner? (i.e. one channel only)
14b. does STB also perform TA functions to fix "SDV problem"
14c. how to explain cable provider that I want STB instead of their DVR (i.e. what magic words to use)? Any ideas how much they charge for it?

If you have cable, there are really only 2 ways to get HD into SageTV.

a) Firewire output from the STB. This can only record channels that are copy-freely. Anything marked as copy-once or copy-never cannot be recorded by Sage. Which channels are copy protected varies by region and provider (sorry I can't help on that one). Usually local channels are copy freely, and everything else is under lock down. It does vary quite a bit though.

b) Hauppauge HD-PVR. This records via the component out of your STB. Unlike firewire, you don't need to worry about the copy once/freely/never problem. Signal is recompressed from original, but most users seem quite happy with the quality.

15. assuming that I won't have access to Comcast VOD it seems logical to switch to smth else (like Dish), in which case it makes sense to look at Nextcom R5000-HD. Did anyone had any experience with it?:
15a. it looks like a modification kit to provider's STB -- does this mean I have to buy STB too? Or I pay ~$500 for modified STB and insert provider's SCARD/etc into it?
15b. will this solution work as a single tuner only? (i.e. one channel)
15c. what provider will you suggest in this case? Nextcom's web-site is a bit sketchy on details of support
15d. what catches/drawbacks/problems I can expect from R5000?

I use the R5000 on one of my receivers. You can either buy a STB and have the mod done to the receiver, or you can buy a premodified receiver. Both would work the same. I believe Dish would be your best option, since Dish is the only provider that Nextcom can capture MPEG4 from. From what I've read, most new channels on Dish and DirecTV are coming out in MPEG4. If you get a R5000 mod on a DirecTV receiver, you won't be able to record channels that are in MPEG4.

Hope that helps.

[xxLJLxx]

Originally Posted by crusader

11. HD200 can play ripped DVD/BR -- can it play actual DVD/BR in Sage server's drive? (i.e. do I actually *have* to have parallel BR player?)

My Sage setup is pretty simple so I don't have alot of experience with the HD-PVR and STBs but you can actually share your Bluray drive in the server and essentially pick the largest .m2ts file on the disc to play. Keep in mind, you will have to use something like AnyDVDHD to decrypt the disc and even then, the longest track isn't always the actual movie. It is sometimes the director's cut or something similar. You mind not really need to purchase a stand alone bluray player. Some still prefer it though.

[pjpjpjpj]

The above posts did a great job, but you can also check the attachment in the first post here (shameless self-promotion) for some info about what to buy for your system:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41428

[paulbeers]

here's a couple more answers....

3. Yes
4. The HDMI is only 1.2, so some of the high end ones are downmixed. To some this is a big deal, to me the advantages of the HD200 outweigh this limitation.
8. I just watched one of my Netflix videos on it last night via the Sage Gui.

[crusader]

Thanks for help, guys, these are still not covered:

Originally Posted by crusader

12. as I understand there is no way I could access provider's VOD without provider's DVR (and then it is a PITA to attach it to SageTV) -- am I correct? (my provider is Comcast)
16. What do you think about these 'on-the-wall' HD antennas sold at Amazon? e.g. this one

Some followups:

Originally Posted by peternm22

No DRM in any Sage recordings. I believe you are referring to firewire recordings for copy-once/no-copy. If that's the case, then they can't be recorded at all in SageTV. Only content that is marked a copy freely. (varies by cable provider)

I was referring to this. I hope SageTV ignores it.
Btw, about R5000 -- as I understand it extracts MPEG stream as it is, which means whatever DRM flags it has will be passed to SageTV. (am I correct?) Will SageTV manage/record/reproduce this video on extender (e.g. HBO program decrypted by my STB)?
If yes -- why it can't do the same with signal received over firewire from STB?
If not -- why provider's DVR can do it but SageTV can't?

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

some info about what to buy for your system:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41428

Thanks!

Originally Posted by paulbeers

8. I just watched one of my Netflix videos on it last night via the Sage Gui.

Which plugin did you use? (PlayOn?)


Additional question:
17. if given STB has HDMI output -- can it be connected to PC somehow? (and fed to SageTV, there are ways to strip HDCP if necessary)

[peternm22]

I was referring to this. I hope SageTV ignores it.

I "believe" Sage does ignore that flag, I think Microsoft's media center is the only PC DVR that honours it.

Btw, about R5000 -- as I understand it extracts MPEG stream as it is, which means whatever DRM flags it has will be passed to SageTV. (am I correct?) Will SageTV manage/record/reproduce this video on extender (e.g. HBO program decrypted by my STB)?
If yes -- why it can't do the same with signal received over firewire from STB?
If not -- why provider's DVR can do it but SageTV can't?

The R5000 grabs the MPEG stream after it has been decrypted, so there is no DRM is in the file once it hits your PC. This way, only channels you subscribe to can be recorded. If you subscribe to HBO, then the R5000 can record it.

The reason it can't do the same with all signals from firewire is because the cable company can put copy protection (called 5C) on certain channels. If set, this copy protection encrypts the firewire output for those channels so they can't be read properly by a PC. Which channels have this encryption varies by cable company and area (as I mentioned in my previous post). Also, even if a channel is currently recordable via firewire, it doesn't mean it will remain that way.

If you search around (perhaps the AVS Forum), you should be able to get an idea what channels are 5C encrypted in your area.

17. if given STB has HDMI output -- can it be connected to PC somehow? (and fed to SageTV, there are ways to strip HDCP if necessary)

There are HDMI capture cards for the PC. Using a product like the HD Fury, you could probably strip the HDCP from the signal. However...

I think all the HDMI capture cards on the market now only capture uncompressed HD (meaning HUGE files). This makes it impractical for recording. I think someone on the forum may have gotten this working at some point, but the general consensus seems to be to use the Hauppauge HD-PVR via component inputs.

[paulbeers]

Which plugin did you use? (PlayOn?)


Yes the combination of Playon and the Playon for Online Services plug in for SageTV. Works amazingly well and easy to setup.

[crusader]

Ta!

Last question:
even with SageTV + extender you would still need BluRay player to play occasional BRs and DVDs (otherwise it is inconvenient to run to server every time you want to change a disk, or ripping every)

What player would you recommend? I do not need any fancy features, but it should be:
- reliable
- cheap (both up-front costs & power consumption)
- capable of reading DVD/BR and sending digital stream via HDMI to my NAD receiver -- that is all I need...

I do not need video upscaling (my receiver can do it just fine), no audio decoding (the same). In case if upscaling is present -- I should be able to get rid of it (and send video in native resolution).

Right now I am looking at Panasonic DMP-BD60K and it looks like it has way more than I need (and it is hard to say if upscaling can be switched off).

[reggie14]

I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't found a blu-ray player that will send out the native resolution. As far as I can tell, you're not able to do that with LG or Samsung players.

If you're planning on using Netflix watch instantly, then I highly recommend getting a player with Netflix support. You're not going to get the same quality with PlayOn. I just got a Samsung BD-P1600 and I've been really amazed with the quality of streaming HD videos on Netflix.

By the way, I like the P1600, but I don't have anything to compare it to. It can be a little noisy when it starts up though. And I can confirm there's no option for outputting native resolution. I haven't used the blu-ray/DVD functions that much yet though. But, I have been using Netflix and Pandora a lot.

[crusader]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't found a blu-ray player that will send out the native resolution.

That's funny -- everyone was so happy with this feature that now it is hard to get rid of it :-)

If you're planning on using Netflix watch instantly, then I highly recommend getting a player with Netflix support. You're not going to get the same quality with PlayOn.

That is strange... Why? Does PlayOn transcode Netflix stream somehow?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by crusader

That is strange... Why? Does PlayOn transcode Netflix stream somehow?

My understanding (and I might be wrong about this) is that PlayOn is basically doing a video screen capture; playing back the video in a sort of virtual window, capturing it, and recompressing it to mpeg2. That's just what I read from someone else though.

But, probably the bigger problem is that you can't access streaming HD videos from Netflix on PCs. You can only do it from Roku devices, Netflix-supported blu-ray players, and other consumer electronics streaming devices.

[xxLJLxx]

Originally Posted by reggie14

But, probably the bigger problem is that you can't access streaming HD videos from Netflix on PCs. You can only do it from Roku devices, Netflix-supported blu-ray players, and other consumer electronics streaming devices.

Unless I am mistaken, you can access HD videos on the PC. At least on the Instant Queue for Netflix there is an HD option and series like Lost and The Office are available as well as certain movies. These may not actually be "high definition" but I would say they definitely look better. I could very well be wrong with this assumption.

[MrFusion]

Originally Posted by crusader

Ta!

Last question:
even with SageTV + extender you would still need BluRay player to play occasional BRs and DVDs (otherwise it is inconvenient to run to server every time you want to change a disk, or ripping every)

Well, you could just install AnyDVDHD on the server, and put a USB Bluray drive at the end of either a long USB cable, or use USB <--> CAT5 <--> USB transceivers.

Probably find that it doesn't really come ahead cost-wise, but might be better aesthetically.

3. my AV receiver is very good at upconverting video -- is it possible to configure SageTV/HD200 to send video in "native resolution" of the media that produces it?

Yes. Depending on setup, you can constrain either in HD200 setup, or in the HD200's properties file (for custom resolutions / refresh rates), or both. You may notice the issue with refresh rate judder (depends on the TV/Receiver etc), but this can be dealt with.

Have a look at http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...7&postcount=19 (might be a good idea to read the whole thread, if you're having difficulty sleeping...).

[Fuzzy]

I'm not using extenders, but my server/client is in another room from my TV. I simply have a long HDMI cable conencted to the TV, and some active USB extension cables running to a HUB and some devices at the TV (Turtle beach Audio Advantage for SPDIF sound to receiver, XBox360 HD-DVD drive, Sony Bly-Ray Drive in external USB enclosure, and a USB-UIRT for IR Control). I have the drive's imported into my media library, and with AnyDVDHD running, all i have to do is insert the disc I want to play, refresh the library, and they are then visible under the Video Library, and playable.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by xxLJLxx

Unless I am mistaken, you can access HD videos on the PC. At least on the Instant Queue for Netflix there is an HD option and series like Lost and The Office are available as well as certain movies. These may not actually be "high definition" but I would say they definitely look better. I could very well be wrong with this assumption.

Really? I don't see any indication things are in HD on my computer. I do see things marked as HD from the Netflix screen on my P1600, but nothing like that Netflix's web page.

I'm pretty sure that Netflix doesn't stream HD videos to PCs. I've seen a lot of complaints and questions about this issue. I suspect there are several reasons for limiting HD streaming to devices. They probably don't want to pay for the extra bandwidth, thinking users are used to Youtube-quality video on the computer anyway. Studios probably think its safer, from a piracy perspective, to stream to a CE device. And, it wouldn't surprise me if its just too hard to decode HD video in Silverlight, and it wouldn't be worth the extra customer support cost.

You'd need an awfully powerful computer to do realtime transcoding of HD video anyway. Even if Netflix had it, PlayOn probably wouldn't use the HD videos.

[xxLJLxx]

Really? I don't see any indication things are in HD on my computer. I do see things marked as HD from the Netflix screen on my P1600, but nothing like that Netflix's web page.

You're probably right. I honestly wasn't sure and was just going off of the Watch Instantly and my Instant Queue on the actual site. There is an HD genre, Watch Now -> Genres -> HD, but I could see them using that for people that use the web interface to pick the videos and then devices like the Xbox 360 or the Roku for playback.

[crusader]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I just got a Samsung BD-P1600 and I've been really amazed with the quality of streaming HD videos on Netflix.

After doing some homework I've bought Samsung BD-1600 on amazon. Only problem I see is some firmware upgrade that was recently plaguing users (killing their boxes). Is it resolved already or I should avoid updating?

Another obstacle was antenna -- since I have no idea how to choose or what to look for, I've decided to buy convenient, relatively cheap and with minimum negative feedback -- RCA ANT1650. Looks like it is omnidirectional, hopefully it is good enough.

Originally Posted by MrFusion

Have a look at http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...7&postcount=19 (might be a good idea to read the whole thread, if you're having difficulty sleeping...).

Yes, I get carried away sometimes by this diabolical box (i.e. PC). Thanks! Very good piece of info. Now where is my TV manual... :-)

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by crusader

After doing some homework I've bought Samsung BD-1600 on amazon. Only problem I see is some firmware upgrade that was recently plaguing users (killing their boxes). Is it resolved already or I should avoid updating?

I don't know. I updated my firmware a couple weeks ago without incident. It took a really long time- much, much longer than I expected- but it's working fine.

You could check out avsforum if you're concerned. It probably isn't too dangerous though. And its relatively easy to do returns/exchanges right after you buy something.

[crusader]

Player arrived today -- it is awesome! I immediately get addicted to Pandora. Does anyone know if Samsung plan to release firmware with 192kbps support for Pandora?

Btw, of course I ran into problems with 1080p/24 flickering on my Panasonic 50PZ800U in 48Hz mode. :-( Will try to talk to Panasonic support, maybe this will help. Also looks like in my situation my receiver (NAD T747) always upconverts video to 1080p/60 (according to my TV menu) regardless of incoming signal -- not sure if this is TV's fault or not. But it can be overridden manually, kind of sucks changing this option now and then.

Googling info about BR disks produces the fact that all 1080p content is 24 frame/sec (or 23.976). Is it correct? If yes -- this a bit disappointing :-( (see flickering problem above; I saw some mentions that it might be alleviated with contrast/brightness settings -- will give it a try tomorrow)

Soon my HD200 will arrive, then wiring house with Gb ethernet -- this will be fun...