Sage system setup "for Dummies" (or noobs)

[pjpjpjpj]

So after countless instances of reading questions from people here asking what they need to do in order to get started with Sage, I finally spent a little time and whipped up a document that (hopefully) will explain what is needed.

It is not intended to tell people how to set up their system, but rather to answer the usual questions that we see on this forum, in somewhat of a "flowchart"-type fashion (though done as a PDF in "outline" format).

I am, of course, open to comments, advice, suggestions of things to add, etc. But remember that I am not trying to cover EVERY option (especially those not officially supported by Sage), and I'm not trying to tell people how to set up their system. This is a completely "for noobs" document intended to clarify what a beginner would need to purchase in order to have a basic system. If you have something you would like to see added or changed, please post it, and I will add/alter, and re-post the original... that way we won't have 500 versions of this thing floating around.

See attached.

P.S. I would love it if this document eventually had enough input and tweaks that it was deemed worthy of becoming a sticky, and would thus save a lot of us helpful souls a lot of typing...

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

P.S. I would love it if this document eventually had enough input and tweaks that it was deemed worthy of becoming a sticky

Or you could post it to the Guides and Tutorials category of the Downloads section.

[HelenWeathers]

Very nice contribution, pjpjpjpj. Nicely laid out.

[Skiier__Dude]

One addition I'd make to the guide is a quick section on Remote Controls. You don't "have to" have a universal remote but a single remote that turns on all devices with a single button push sure makes household adoption a thing of beauty. I use the Harmony 880 -- it's inexpensive, intuitive and easy to program. There are many other good ones out there.

I'd also consider making an OS/Hardware recommendation. All of the OS' have merit -- however, after experimenting with many setups -- my strong recommendation as the most simple setup that requires the least ongoing support work for someone starting from scratch would be the following:

Windows Home Server with a modest Dual Core CPU and 1-2Gb RAM -- buy or build. Dedicate it to recording. Use the extenders for playback.

Not to say that Linux, XP, Vista etc.... don't work -- but WHS is a snap to install and in the 4+ years I've been using Sage is by far the most stable and requires the least amount of tinkering. Using clients for playback works (no question) but extenders tend to work that much more reliable.

[freedml]

GREAT document. Here are some changes:

partition your hard drive(s) into 64K blocks.
should be: format your hard drive partition with 64k clusters. This is vital for smooth playback. Usually this will be a separate partition from your system and/or the SageTV location.

4bc. Placeshifter can watch TV on a local network, too, not just through the internet. I'm not sure why you would buy Client (where each accessing machine has to have a license) versus Placeshifter (where the machine ACCESSED has as many pooled licenses as you want to have simultaneous access).

1bii I would specifically warn against the Wireless MVP. It barely works at all even on SD. And note that you have to buy a Placeshifter license for the MVP.

1bi add "Even if your TVs are not HD, the "HD" extender is still the best choice because it doesn't put a processing burden on your server."

3ai Many people know about 'antennas' but don't know about digital signals. I would put a link to antennaweb.org and also talk about amplifying the heck out of marginal digital signals, and also about the dangers of being too close to the transmitter (too much signal).

Hauppauge...

4ei add USB tuners

4f given hard drive prices these days, it doesn't make much sense to buy a drive smaller than 500gb when you're spending this kind of money on all the other stuff. I would suggest this size as a place to start.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by freedml

4bc. Placeshifter can watch TV on a local network, too, not just through the internet. I'm not sure why you would buy Client (where each accessing machine has to have a license) versus Placeshifter (where the machine ACCESSED has as many pooled licenses as you want to have simultaneous access).

Placeshifter cannot playback DVDs or DVD rips that are on the server. Probably the biggest reason why you would ourchase the PC client.

Gerry

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by freedml

GREAT document. Here are some changes:

partition your hard drive(s) into 64K blocks.
should be: format your hard drive partition with 64k clusters. This is vital for smooth playback. Usually this will be a separate partition from your system and/or the SageTV location.

4bc. Placeshifter can watch TV on a local network, too, not just through the internet. I'm not sure why you would buy Client (where each accessing machine has to have a license) versus Placeshifter (where the machine ACCESSED has as many pooled licenses as you want to have simultaneous access).

1bii I would specifically warn against the Wireless MVP. It barely works at all even on SD. And note that you have to buy a Placeshifter license for the MVP.

1bi add "Even if your TVs are not HD, the "HD" extender is still the best choice because it doesn't put a processing burden on your server."

3ai Many people know about 'antennas' but don't know about digital signals. I would put a link to antennaweb.org and also talk about amplifying the heck out of marginal digital signals, and also about the dangers of being too close to the transmitter (too much signal).

Hauppauge...

4ei add USB tuners

4f given hard drive prices these days, it doesn't make much sense to buy a drive smaller than 500gb when you're spending this kind of money on all the other stuff. I would suggest this size as a place to start.

Thanks (to all above, not just freedml) - this is the sort of response I hoped to get - things I missed, typos, etc. I intend on updating and improving the document during that ever-so-popular time period known as "lunchtime at work, sitting at my desk". I will incorporate the thoughts above soon (it won't be daily, but it won't be monthly either. )

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by freedml

I'm not sure why you would buy Client...

The FAQ lists several reasons why one might prefer Client over Placeshifter. One important difference that's not listed there is that Client includes Studio and therefore lets you do UI development on a machine other than your production server.

[freedml]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'DVD rips' don't work. Ripped DVD movies on my server playback just fine via Placeshifter.

The few advantages of Client are pretty esoteric and would not make a much sense to a newcomer.

[Skirge01]

Great writeup and a much needed document!

Not sure if you want to do this, but you may want to include the fact that people should avoid their cable satellite company's DVR if they're going to be using Sage. The built-in channel changing on those units will almost definitely lead to conflicts with Sage's attempt to tune a channel and, ultimately, missed recordings.

It's not true that "For every TV in your house that you want to watch your Sage media on, you will need an extender..." People are free to build their own full-blown computer, as well, and add a SageTV client license. Feel free to mention some of the caveats with codecs and all that, if you want.

[mayamaniac]

1bi, 1. The HD200 does all the encoding within the box, so it takes that load off
of the server (hence the lower system requirements in “1.a.iii” above).

Just a terminology correction, afaik, I believe the HD200 does all the decoding only, which means playback of various formats, not creation of them. The HD-PVR is an encoding device, creating H264 files.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by freedml

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'DVD rips' don't work. Ripped DVD movies on my server playback just fine via Placeshifter.

The few advantages of Client are pretty esoteric and would not make a much sense to a newcomer.

If you've ripped them into a different format such as .avi, .mkv, etc. it's considered a video and not a DVD. (And technically you're transcoding it-it is not just a rip) If you maintain it with the .vob and .ifo (as is) Placeshifter will not play it as a DVD.

From the FAQ

Q: What is the difference between SageTV Client and Placeshifter?

A: Some of the differences are as follows:

SageTV Placeshifter:

Can not play DVDs.

Gerry

[pjpjpjpj]

I would love it if someone who really knows would post a clear and definitive explanation of encoding, decoding, and transcoding, and when and where each should be used, and which devices do what.

It seems like those phrases get thrown around this forum pretty loosely, and no one really questions it (which is fine by me, we all sorta know what we are referring to). I posted something on another forum a while back (non-Sage) and some guy really let me have it, because I used the wrong term.

I would love to get it right in the document.

[mayamaniac]

to oversimplify it:

decoding = reading, or playback or uncompressing
encoding = writing, or compressing
transcoding = converting, from one format to another, usually in real time

[gplasky]

You could start with the basics. I've combined it for both audio and video.

codec-audio or video
Codec is a mechanism for compressing and restoring digital audio or video. A codec can be hardware- or software-based. Codec stands for encoder/decoder

encoder-audio or video
An encoder analyzes digital audio or video data and looks for certain patterns that it can express via mathematical algorithms. For example, a video encoder looks for areas of pixels that stay the same over time, or for predictable movement patterns among pixels. Then, the codec generates an “encoded” description of the digital video, saving a considerable amount of space by avoiding redundancies. Encoder is when the file is being created.


decoder-audio or video
A decoder quickly recreates the original data, usually with small losses, based on its own encoded description. Decoder is when the file is being viewed/listened.

transcoding
Transcoding is the process of converting an audio or video file from one format into another, usually real-time, so that content can be viewed on different playback devices. Working like an interpreter, a transcoder translates files to a suitable format for the end user. The translations are built upon complicated algorithmic computations and require significant processing resources. Transcoding is the middle man and takes a created file format and recreates it to a different file format which can then be used by the decoder on the target playback device.

Hope this helps. Feel free to modify or correct.

Gerry

[pjpjpjpj]

Update version 1.1 is posted in the original thread, incorporating pretty much all of the suggestions above (though not necessarily in the location/method suggested, they are all covered).

Thanks for your input, and keep it coming.

[freedml]

I like the changes.

One trap you wandered into. My understanding is that Client licenses are on each Client installation. They aren't 'pooled' on the server like PlaceShifter licenses are. You have to have one for each Client installation regardless of whether it's 'on' or not.

Wireless MVP was terrible. Even before you get to watch TV, it took forever just to load the application, as I found out when I finally wired them. BTW they're gone now. Much higher quality from the HD-200, even on non HD TVs.

Remotes: I like the Hauppauge remote much better than the HD-200 because it has 'differentiated' buttons and is more ergonomic.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by freedml

One trap you wandered into. My understanding is that Client licenses are on each Client installation. They aren't 'pooled' on the server like PlaceShifter licenses are. You have to have one for each Client installation regardless of whether it's 'on' or not.

I am personally not that familiar with the ins and outs of client and placeshifter licenses, so I tried to remain vague. I can certainly make it more vague if needed. If I could get a clear explanation from someone, I would gladly put it into the document. However, from the exchanges above, it appears that even those more familiar have some uncertainty...

[mayamaniac]

Its not that complicated.

Client licenses are installed with the client, like most softwares you buy, it comes with a serial number that can be used to install on one computer only.

Placeshifter, MVP, HD100 licences are all the same. They are floating licenses that are installed on the server. The number of licences you have installed on the server equals the number of Placeshifter/MVP/HD100 clients you can connect concurrently to the server.

The HD200 is a unique one as it does not require a license to connect to the server.

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by freedml

GREAT document. Here are some changes:


4bc. ...I'm not sure why you would buy Client (where each accessing machine has to have a license) versus Placeshifter (where the machine ACCESSED has as many pooled licenses as you want to have simultaneous access).

I really don't understand this statement! The full cient provides 100x better quality and performance than Placeshifter. I tried using the Placeshifter in my setup on one of our TVs and it was terrible. The Mrs. nearly tossed the TV out the window, it was so bad as compared to the Client.
Placeshifter is OK if all you're looking for is basic playback on a PC. But if you want full functionality, selective use of codecs and ability to customize your playing options, than you need to buy the Client license.