IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by toricred

YES WE CAN!

Wow. 28 minutes. I can't believe it took that long.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by lfilomeno

I truly hope that SageTV v.7 is out soon with a more polished, updated graphical interface. Maybe the announcement of Windows 7 embedded with Media Center functionality might speed up the process of unveiling what they have in store for SageTV users. MY wife saw a Win 7 MC screen the other day and automatically fell in love with the layout and updated themes. True, we do have SageMC but I do believe SageTV needs to update their graphical interface. Eye candy is king; SageTV default interface is dated. Also, with the recent Win 7 embedded announcement, expect to see extenders for their product being developed soon! I have been loyal to SageTV despite all the tweaks and upgrades I have dome to the software to make it look “updated”. If OEM’s can come up with a decent, functional, and unrestrictive media center extenders, then SageTV has to up their game a couple of notches to catch up. My 2 cents

For being the 15,000th person to state that sage needs to update their ui to be competitive you get the wonderful prize of....

wait for it...

more speculation as to what sage will change and when it will be released!!! Lucky you...

(the above is a joke and not to be taken personally. we are all as antsy as you)

[lfilomeno]

All I wanted to say is that it will be nice to have a fresh new default look on SageTV. C'mmon Sage, let us see what you got in store for us!

[kingwr]

I don't see why Windows 7 embedded with Media Center makes people think new Media Center extenders are on the way. Multiple Media Center computers can't talk to each other today (outside of simple file sharing through homegroup), so Media Center running on an OEM device with Win 7 embedded could no more be an extender than a second Media Center computer.

As far as releasing something, the Ceton InifinTV/4 is out at the end of this month. Once I plop down $399 and go with cable over my current DirecTV, I am out of the switching platform business for another couple of years. If I can see a slick new UI on top of a new SageTV engine that has more stable support for HDPVR, I will at least give it a try before going over to the darkside of cable. It would be nice to know if the new Sage UI in 7.0 was going to work with the HD200. Can they tell us that much?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by kingwr

I don't see why Windows 7 embedded with Media Center makes people think new Media Center extenders are on the way.

I've been asking several sources close to MS (take that for what you want) and they all seem to agree with you - "Microsoft will not see true HTPC extenders ever again beyond XBox360."

Matter of fact, I'm working on an article that pieces together quotes from those people as to why they think that.

[mmanville]

Originally Posted by Brent

I've been asking several sources close to MS (take that for what you want) and they all seem to agree with you - "Microsoft will not see true HTPC extenders ever again beyond XBox360."

Matter of fact, I'm working on an article that pieces together quotes from those people as to why they think that.

Wow. That is so strage. I mean, AT&T U-Verse is basically a windows powered system, and they have what is more or less a server-extender model (you literally can't have a second independent U-Verse recording box in your home, every STB has a hard drive and is identical, but only one is allowed to actually USE the hard drive, is buffering live TV, etc ... when you schedule a recording on an "extender", it will be recorded on the main box's HD). So it seems like the technology may be already there. Why don't they let Windows MC customers use it?

[stanger89]

Oh the technology is already there. Softsled exists, IIRC MS uses it to test extender functionality. Problem is MS has no intention of releasing Softsled to the public.

[mmanville]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Oh the technology is already there. Softsled exists, IIRC MS uses it to test extender functionality. Problem is MS has no intention of releasing Softsled to the public.

Well, I guess I always assumed it was for DRM reasons. Which I guess would coincided with the idea that U-Verse can use it -- that is a closed system that you can't access media files of from a PC, so it's OK to share things inside the system without worrying about DRM, because no one can easily "peek" inside?

I used to think (like everyone else) that they were protecting their partners' MC extender market, but ... all their partners pulled out last year, and now Brent says there will be no new ones. Surely they can't be doing this to protect the xbox360? That is primarily a gaming box, I don't think it needs to be "protected." If the market for using it purely as an extender is big enough, it seems to me that MS could just release a stripped down piece of hardware (no gaming abilities) at a lower price point in order to "protect" that product market.

I don't know. It just seems ... unfortunate for MS, from a marketing perspective, that they have a very polished product in media center, which draws people like me in with its quality, but then after I've gotten my sea legs and am looking to take the next step to a more sophisticated network setup, their policies forced me to look elsewhere. Oh well.

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by mmanville

Well, I guess I always assumed it was for DRM reasons. Which I guess would coincided with the idea that U-Verse can use it -- that is a closed system that you can't access media files of from a PC, so it's OK to share things inside the system without worrying about DRM, because no one can easily "peek" inside?

I used to think (like everyone else) that they were protecting their partners' MC extender market, but ... all their partners pulled out last year, and now Brent says there will be no new ones. Surely they can't be doing this to protect the xbox360? That is primarily a gaming box, I don't think it needs to be "protected." If the market for using it purely as an extender is big enough, it seems to me that MS could just release a stripped down piece of hardware (no gaming abilities) at a lower price point in order to "protect" that product market.

I don't know. It just seems ... unfortunate for MS, from a marketing perspective, that they have a very polished product in media center, which draws people like me in with its quality, but then after I've gotten my sea legs and am looking to take the next step to a more sophisticated network setup, their policies forced me to look elsewhere. Oh well.

One thing to keep in mind is that Microsoft almost never actually does hardware themselves. Yes, I know they make mice/keyboards - but aside from that they much prefer to have 'partners' do the hardware. Neither the XBOX nor the Zune use 'Windows', so traditional developement tools wont work with them either. Everything that works with them software wise has to be ported by them - no 3rd party support - which is why you won't see MS coming out with a slimmed down XBOX.

If you want to lock yourself into 7MC land, your best hope is that they build it in to new TV's. Then again, it'd be a shame to have to buy a new TV just to get built-in extender functionality.

-PGPfan

[oddjob]

Come on!!! BETA , BETA, BETA!!!

sorry, I was hoping today would be the day.

[Stuntman]

The ironic thing is, and I'm guessing this.. is that when that Beta finally does come out, and if the GUI is dramatically changed.. my wife, who doesn't particularly like change, will probably have me change it back to the 'old' style SageMC look.. Maybe I can have a custom GUI Change button programmed on my remote.. so I can toggle GUI's on the fly! Green button is for me, Blue button is for her....

[49studebaker]

I am almost certain Sage will release the non-beta official version at CES 2011. I have heard that Sage released the private beta version in January 2010. My guess is that both the private beta and public beta will last 6 months. I think we will see the release of the public beta in June 2010.

[osburnfamily]

Well, I haven't been on the Sage forums in a while; but, I've been following this thread since I heard of the possibility of a new interface with the next release.

I had moved away from Sage a little over a year ago--back to MediaCenter, thanks to all the new fun stuff with 7MC.

I personally am very interested in the possible new Sage. Not because I have anything wrong with my current setup--quite the contrary. But, because I'm a glutton for punishment!

That all said, I REALLY don't expect the Sage guys to give/leak ANY details about the UI change until it has reach the point of public beta. I mean--really..why would they?

It's not like they haven't heard over the years what the users want in the many posts about it. But, they do know that if they release info about what they know will be in the final release (feature/look wise--not bug fixes), BEFORE people can actually get their hands on it, then all that does is open the door for people to smash it before it's even out based on a bunch of FUD.

The Microsoft followers over at TGB know all-too-well about this one! I think it's very prudent for Sage to hold-off until their ready. Otherwise, they may feel forced to change it to something they don't want it to be.

The nice thing I ALWAYS liked about Sage (even though I'm not with them currently) is that they had a product they were/are proud of, and stood by... unlike Microsoft/MediaCenter.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by osburnfamily

back to MediaCenter, thanks to all the new fun stuff with 7MC.

I'm curious. What fun stuff in W7 pulled you back to MC?

[osburnfamily]

Awe c'mon now... I wasn't trying to spark debate on 7MC vs STV. We've all been down this road for too much and you're either going to use one or the other (calm down MediaPortal guys, I'm not trying to belittle you... . I just thought I'd throw in my two cents as to why mums the word on details. If I'm wrong, I'm cool with that.

I don't have any issue with my current setup that would cause me to switch... But, I'm ALWAYS curious and happy to see big changes from side to side that spark competition.

I can't wait to give the new Sage a try when its out!

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by osburnfamily

Awe c'mon now... I wasn't trying to spark debate on 7MC vs STV. We've all been down this road for too much and you're either going to use one or the other (calm down MediaPortal guys, I'm not trying to belittle you... . I just thought I'd throw in my two cents as to why mums the word on details. If I'm wrong, I'm cool with that.
!

Brent likes to keep track of the advantages and disadvantages of both systems actually (largely for his Blog: Geek Tonic). So I don't think he was trying to start a debate about which is better, but rather was trying to keep track.

I love Sage. I have a ton of money invested in Sage. But if all I wanted was a one tv setup, I would have seriously considered 7MC (if for no other reason than it is free with most versions of 7MC).

[Brent]

Sorry, no I wasn't trying to really start a back & forth debate on it - I thought you had used SageTV in the past. I honestly wanted to know what features pulled you to Media Center. I have my reasons for continuing to use SageTV for my main setup but I definitely see CableCard in its current form as the one big thing that I covet from the MC guys.

I try to follow all the HTPC software out there for GeekTonic including MS Media Center, SageTV, BeyondTV, MeediOS, Media Portal, MythTV, LinuxMCE, XBMC etc. So yes my interest is in what makes someone switch when they do and of course I personally always want to know how the grass is greener on the other side too in case I ever might want to follow

[jtennison]

Originally Posted by Brent

... I have my reasons for continuing to use SageTV for my main setup but I definitely see CableCard in its current form as the one big thing that I covet from the MC guys. ....

CableCard is a huge plus for MC7. I will most likely switch from Sage to MC due to decreasing WAF because she cannot record from all our cable channels, only the unencrypted ones. I hate the DRM that comes with MC, but that is the price that needs to be paid for the encrypted channels.

It seems unlikely that Sage will be able to handle the encrypted channels, unless CableLabs loosens their restrictions.

[osburnfamily]

Originally Posted by Brent

Sorry, no I wasn't trying to really start a back & forth debate on it - I thought you had used SageTV in the past. I honestly wanted to know what features pulled you to Media Center. I have my reasons for continuing to use SageTV for my main setup but I definitely see CableCard in its current form as the one big thing that I covet from the MC guys.

I try to follow all the HTPC software out there for GeekTonic including MS Media Center, SageTV, BeyondTV, MeediOS, Media Portal, MythTV, LinuxMCE, XBMC etc. So yes my interest is in what makes someone switch when they do and of course I personally always want to know how the grass is greener on the other side too in case I ever might want to follow

No problem Brent! Actually while you were replying, I was taking a stroll down memory lane! I don't think meant anything more than the question. You've got a solid rep in my book from reading the forums over the years. But, it did get me thinking again about the switch from MCE to STV back to V/7MC. It has been a cold and dreary day so I decided to recall my HTPC experience over the years. It ended up being WAY too long to post in this thread. It would be REALLY unfair to hijack it like that. So, I've posted it elsewhere and if you want to read it, feel free. Much of this may be many of you over the years!

Keep in mind all this was "at the time" information and doesn't reflect on what's going on today, necessarily. Also, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed; so, I by no-means think that any of my opinions are true for everyone here... but they were for me, "at the time".

Link to the post is here: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...017#post422017

[Brent]

Originally Posted by jtennison

It seems unlikely that Sage will be able to handle the encrypted channels, unless CableLabs loosens their restrictions.

I'm not 100% sure we won't see a CableCard option for SageTV eventually. It all depends on whether the guys at SageTV are willing to gamble on the investment. And the fact that the FCC is beginning to re-think CableCard & look at other options for the future makes it less certain too.