IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[Crunch]

Originally Posted by cncb

Yes, and it doesn't even include OTA tuners?!

MCE-Refugee Quote:

Neither of these applications records or displays broadcast Live TV which SageTV does exceptionally well.

Am I missing something? Everyone says the advantage of staying with SageTv is OTH function. Surely that is not a worry if I have cable. I currently get the same channels that are over the air on my TW cable package. Why would I want OTA tuners on say a 3 tuner Moxi box?

jgscott987 The Moxi does look cool, but my goodness the price is high.

$600 for the main server
$300 for each additional TV
$xxx for more hard drive space (only comes with 500gb.)

For me that's $1,800+. I can definitely wait for Sage 7.

I don't see that much difference. Currently, lets be nice and say.... srver/computer $500, tuner cards/HDHR say $400, 4 SageTV HD Theater for his 4 rooms $700. I haven't added all the other bits that the wife dosn't even know about to make the thing run. So we are near the same cost.


I think some of you are right to start talking about needing 'fairy dust' and a glass ball. It seems more and more that is what you are going to need to get, say the new HDHRCC units to play nice with SageTv. If say the HDHRCC and similar devices are not able to be used in SageTV then it becomes very limiting, as limiting as you say me looking a Moxi box is.

All this could be cleared up by SageTv saying we plan on having A B C available to users. At the moment I have make my assumptions from 'users speculation' here on the forum. Currently, you all say SageTV is very unlikely to have the HDHRCC or similar device work. If that is the case isn't SageTv a lost cause? Or are we going to need to have more little bits and devices all over the lounge to watch TV?

[cncb]

Originally Posted by Crunch

Am I missing something? Everyone says the advantage of staying with SageTv is OTH function.

I was just saying that it was kind of expensive since it doesn't even include OTA tuners (even Tivo has these). It is not an option for those of use who use OTA only. I think MCE-Refugee was saying that those applications don't do TV of any kind - OTA or cable.

[jgscott987]

Originally Posted by Crunch

I don't see that much difference. Currently, lets be nice and say.... srver/computer $500, tuner cards/HDHR say $400, 4 SageTV HD Theater for his 4 rooms $700. I haven't added all the other bits that the wife dosn't even know about to make the thing run. So we are near the same cost.

.
.

Your original question/argument was 'why not switch to moxie'. To switch implies that you already own all of the SageTV hardware mentioned above. There is $0 additional investment to stay with SageTV, and $1,800+ investment (for me at least) to switch to Moxie.
.

[Naylia]

This discussion should be moved to it's own thread...it has nothing to do with how awfully quiet it is in the beta department...

[Stuntman]

Originally Posted by Naylia

This discussion should be moved to it's own thread...it has nothing to do with how awfully quiet it is in the beta department...

I don't know.. it seems it has grown SO QUIET on the Beta front that we have all become bored with how quiet it is!

[MorfiusX]

I think SageTV needs to hurry up. MS in catching up...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/27/w...edded-devices/

[reggie14]

Out of curiosity, is anyone still expecting server-on-a-stick to become reality? While the new UI came up at CES this year, server-on-a-stick hasn't been mentioned since Brent's interview quite a while ago.

[Taddeusz]

I can understand the whole stance on not wanting to accept any kind of DRM. Right now other than the moral stance of not wanting to accept DRM the main block towards getting CableCard on SageTV is cost. If the licensing or certification becomes acceptably priced as should happen with the FCC's broadband plan then, at that point, DRM becomes the main issue.

I'm not really sure what all DRM constraints the FCC's "AllVid" system is proposing, if any.

But at the point where the licensing and certification becomes affordable and SageTV doesn't go that route due to the DRM I think that they would increasingly start to become a liability to their customer base the longer they refuse.

Certainly there are products like the HDPVR which allow people to work around CableCard restrictions. The HDPVR is not without its own issues and also incurs a lossy process of converting a lossily compressed digital signal to analog and back to another lossily compressed digital signal. Granted, the picture is good, but I would prefer there be no conversion necessary.

Of course they will do what they feel is best for their customer base. I would prefer the use of CableCard, "AllVid", or whatever comes in the future even if some amount of DRM might be used. I would rather be able to record and view the original signal rather than accepting the HDPVR as the end-all-be-all or accepting the use of rented DVR's.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by voidpt

Stop complaining. We're up to 7.0.7. That's a whole +0.0.1 change Don't come here and say we do not get stuff (although I bet they are having fun each time they change it, should be a law against such cruel behaviour)

7.0.7, that's great news!

keep us updated please.

actually, i don't really need sage7.............what i need is a hd300 that has hdmi1.3 and can navigate bluray menus.

hmmmmmmmmmmm..........maybe i should start a new thread

"IT seems awfully quiet in the hd200/300 beta department..."

[bastafidli]

I wonder if the server on the stick was just a decoy to direct the attention to somewhere else.

[Djc208]

The "They better tell me what's going on or I'm going to leave." mentality is confusing to me. If it's so vital that you have certain features now you're better off going to whatever gives them to you, since there is no guarantee Sage can or will implement them and even if they do that they will be to your satisfaction.

Sage may grow to add the functionality you want, but if going somewhere else will give that to you now and you're willing to go to the trouble of changing then you're going to be happier just going to the new system. I like Sage for what it offers now. If things improve later great, but nothing else fits my requirements better.

As for the CC stuff, it would be nice but I don't see how Sage is going to be allowed more freedom than MS with respect to DRM, at which point I think you loose the biggest advantage of SageTV. People keep saying they would be OK with some DRM, but I don't think you can pick and choose, it's a package deal.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

If the licensing or certification becomes acceptably priced as should happen with the FCC's broadband plan then, at that point, DRM becomes the main issue.
[snip]
But at the point where the licensing and certification becomes affordable and SageTV doesn't go that route due to the DRM I think that they would increasingly start to become a liability to their customer base the longer they refuse.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider "affordable" for licensing and certification costs? While you can imagine licensing costs solely based on the units of software/hardware sold, certification costs should mainly be fixed, no matter how many units are sold. It's not clear to me that Sage would be able to afford "reasonable" certification costs, as I suspect their sales are fairly limited.

I know the FCC has kind of been suggesting that certification can be done away with, but I just don't see how that's realistic. I think that could theoretically work with CableCard, because of the way the only approved DRM scheme works, but I don't see that happening with AllVid. The FCC's report said that devices would have to obey copy protection flags, which to me strongly suggests you would need a certification program.

Originally Posted by Djc208

As for the CC stuff, it would be nice but I don't see how Sage is going to be allowed more freedom than MS with respect to DRM, at which point I think you loose the biggest advantage of SageTV. People keep saying they would be OK with some DRM, but I don't think you can pick and choose, it's a package deal.

It's not like the decision between Media Center and Sage is a decision between CC/DRM and no CC/DRM. I'd happily live with the current DRM restrictions in Media Center- I just don't like other functionality in Media Center (mainly, their extenders). Since I can't actually get reliable playback in Win7 (this isn't just a problem in Sage), about the only thing DRM would get in the way with is automatic commercial skipping, which isn't terribly important to me.

While I basically agree DRM would cripple Sage in similar ways to MC, I think there might be some wiggle room there. First, the recent move to no longer use DRM on copy-freely channels suggests there is some wiggle room on how DRM must work. And two, DRM mainly limits what you can do to a subset of things that the software manufacturer approves of and implements (perhaps after negotiations with other parties). The use of DRM doesn't necessarily restrict any functions from a user perspective, it just severely limits doing things with the media file outside the original application. Sage could build in additional functionality that isn't present in Media Center, while still having it under the DRM umbrella (e.g., software extenders).

[toricred]

One thing a lot of people around here seem to forget is that not everybody uses cable TV. There's a large contingent of people that use satellite that couldn't care less about cablecard. In fact caving into DRM would have a detrimental impact on them for absolutely no gain. I would never consider cable no matter how easy the cable card solution is. I may be completely alone on this, but I seriously doubt it.

[blade]

I love Sage, but the idea of being able to capture everything without having a couple of stb's connected to other devices that are then connected to my server is very appealing. I just want a clean and simple solution (like the HDHomeRun is for clear QAM) for all of my recording needs. I have no plans on switching software, but when I think long term I just don't know. I've thought about the HD-PVR or even the Hava device for DVD quality captures, but I just can't bring myself to spend the money right now. I just feel like I need to wait and see what happens over the next few months. I don't think there is anything Sage could announce that would change that for me.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by toricred

I may be completely alone on this, but I seriously doubt it.

You're not. You couldn't pay me to give up Dish for Mediacon.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by toricred

One thing a lot of people around here seem to forget is that not everybody uses cable TV. There's a large contingent of people that use satellite that couldn't care less about cablecard. In fact caving into DRM would have a detrimental impact on them for absolutely no gain. I would never consider cable no matter how easy the cable card solution is. I may be completely alone on this, but I seriously doubt it.

If the FCC's "AllVid" bears fruit then it will be an option for satellite subscribers as well. This time they're not limiting it to just cable TV. It will be a central point for all video: cable, satellite, and internet.

[stanger89]

Maybe in 5 years.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Maybe in 5 years.

Darn bureaucracy of it all In all truth though they are trying to make this changes happen fast. They know cable card as is is a failure, but cable companies are not quick to want to give up their revenue of set top box rentals.

[Stuntman]

I can't speak for everybody here, and wouldn't presume to.. but my fear in this long silence from SageTV isn't so much about the desire for new features as it is about sustainability. As I've stated before, when the only real information you get from a company is about them selling their older stuff and you get no real information about anything that is advancing the product, you (I) begin to worry that the company itself may be struggling.. I want a new beta as much for reassurance that my product line is still actively being developed as I want that beta for any new features. Companies that don't 'throw a bone' to the ravenous dogs every once in a while will always end up with our type of paranoia and debate. In most cases the dogs that are doing the barking, in this case it is many of us, are also the ones that have driven this product, and in many cases, are the ones that have found ways to advance the product through their own hard work on the side...
Just sayin'...

But I'll wait, patiently, and hope.. really, there is no reason to bash Sage, or threaten to leave.. it is a superior product as is, even as the competition becomes visible in the rear view mirror.

[logsvp]

Originally Posted by jaminben

Has anyone tried the new Beta/Preview version of Vail with Sage?

I have - see my post here