IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[cncb]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'll be reading GeekTonic and ZatzNotfunny to get any morsels of info of course

I hope you won't be surprised by any morsels you get from Geektonic.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by cncb

I hope you won't be surprised by any morsels you get from Geektonic.

I am occasionally. Usually it involves Mrs GeekTonic finding grammar or spelling mishaps due to my carelessness...

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by Brent

That being said, I do hope to see something "come out" from SageTV at CES. SageTV doesn't make a habit of making a huge spash at CES or anything, but there's usually something new. We'll have to watch the next few days to see...

I have to ask - how much of what Sage has shown at CES ever turned into a real product? IIRC, It seem that the last few years they have shown some neat concepts that never materialized (native support for Hulu, embedded SageTV inside a Blueray player, etc.).

Of course having said that, I still can't wait to see what (if anything) they announce.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I have to ask - how much of what Sage has shown at CES ever turned into a real product?

True. I'm looking for something more than a concept this time really.

[evilpenguin]

Its a bit unfair to categorize last years CES as a failure. Ignoring the legal issues that prevented its release, Sage showed up ready to deliver the #1 requested feature by their users and you can't really ask for more than that. If they show up this year with the same goal I think we're all in for a treat.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I have to ask - how much of what Sage has shown at CES ever turned into a real product? IIRC, It seem that the last few years they have shown some neat concepts that never materialized (native support for Hulu, embedded SageTV inside a Blueray player, etc.).

Hmm, that's an interesting point. What has Sage demoed at CES? As you said, 2009 had Hulu, 2008 had the Pioneer Blu-Ray Player client. I think Sage demoed a pre-built server system in 2005. And I think they demoed an applet version of Placeshifter in 2006. None of these ever made it into a SageTV product. Obviously that wasn't always Sage's fault (e.g., Hulu), but it does suggest we shouldn't get too excited over any Sage demos at CES.

Based on a press release I found, it looks like they just announced support for AMD LIVE! Home Cinema in 2007, whatever that means. Presumably that made it into SageTV, not that it mattered. And I found a post from 2004 that said they demoed a SageTV v2 system with 3 tuners, which connected to another SageTV v2 system with 2 more tuners that served as a network encoder. For its time, that was a pretty impressive demo, and it did make it into a product.

[Brent]

Silly pessimists

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by Brent

Silly pessimists

I get the feeling you know more than you're letting on... I'd ask you to spill, but I'll probably just have to be patient for a few more days since CES starts on Thursday.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Brent

Silly pessimists

Yeah, that's me.

On the other hand, Sage has blown past their last record for the longest gap between final/beta releases. It's been 167 days since Sage v6.6 was released. The biggest gap before this (that I was able to find) was between Sage v2.0 and the Sage v2.1 beta, which was 155 days. You figure they must be doing something behind the scenes (and not just developing a concept demo)...

It really wouldn't surprise me to see server-on-a-stick demoed. But, unless they can do amazing things with setup/configuration wizards, that's really of little interest to me (and even then I wouldn't buy it). We might see the new UI that many of us assume they're working on, but this seems like a bad time to roll that out. I don't think they'll actually come out with an impressive UI, just one that (hopefully) won't send potential new customers running. New stories along the lines of "SageTV's UI doesn't suck anymore!" don't seem terribly positive to me. I would think there would be better things to demo for something like the CES crowd.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Brent

I don't see native CableCard in SageTV's future honestly. Our only hope for CableCard with SageTV is the kind of add-on that requires W7 working as the "recording engine" on your SageTV server which "transfers" that to your SageTV - like the one babgvant is experimenting with.

I never thought so either - the story always was the you needed huge financial resources to get into the CableCard certification game. But haven't Ceton and SiliconDust got into this game and are they any bigger than Sage?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Hmm, that's an interesting point. What has Sage demoed at CES? As you said, 2009 had Hulu, 2008 had the Pioneer Blu-Ray Player client.

I wouldn't really call the 2008 thing a true SageTV demo, they had some tech help/support in Dish/Pioneer's demo, but there was never any indication that that was ever going to happen as a real product.

I really don't remember them doing much at CES in general. It seems more like when they're there, they're "camping" in someone else's booth just showing their current stuff off. For some reason I just don't remember them making may big announcements.

I think Sage demoed a pre-built server system in 2005. And I think they demoed an applet version of Placeshifter in 2006. None of these ever made it into a SageTV product. Obviously that wasn't always Sage's fault (e.g., Hulu), but it does suggest we shouldn't get too excited over any Sage demos at CES.

True, lots of stuff at CES never makes it to sale.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

I never thought so either - the story always was the you needed huge financial resources to get into the CableCard certification game. But haven't Ceton and SiliconDust got into this game and are they any bigger than Sage?

Different Animal. The expensive/difficult part is getting the DRM straightened out and approved. Microsoft has taken care of that part. All ATI, Ceton and SiliconDust are doing is creating the hardware that works withing that microsoft framework. Much cheaper/easier.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Different Animal. The expensive/difficult part is getting the DRM straightened out and approved. Microsoft has taken care of that part. All ATI, Ceton and SiliconDust are doing is creating the hardware that works withing that microsoft framework. Much cheaper/easier.

You must be right about this. At least on the easier part. But, in my humble opinion, I'd think Cable Labs would want some pretty good assurance that the devices actually do what they're suppose to do. That means you need to check that they implemented the DRM correctly on the device, and that the device properly applies the DRM whenever a copy-protection flag is set. Presumably you'd want to make sure any crypto keys on the device are securely stored. Those things would take time and money. A pretty significant amount of money if you were going to be very rigorous.

I suspect Microsoft put some pressure on Cable Labs to ease up on certifying devices.

[TwistedMelon]

No one uses cablecard anyway, so releasing a product supporting it wouldn't get you anywhere in the market. Microsoft's PVR/DVR market share is insignificant. Cablecard is a complete and utter failure - everyone, including the cable companies, knows this.

BTW, CES announcements started two days ago and media streaming devices are very well represented this year as predicted.

[Fuzzy]

Actually, CableCard isn't used much because there is no compelling reason TO use it, EXCEPT, for a non-operator supplied PVR. I have a strong suspicion that a majority of cablecards currently in use are in TiVo's.

Also, Microsoft's PVR market share is so small BECAUSE of the limitations (Lack of Pay HD is a big one?). This major limitation is exactly what CableCard adresses. I certainly don't see why you're so negative about it.

CableCard's 'failure' is that currently, the devices that DO support it aren't any more compelling than what you can get from the provider. I'd argue (and most would, by virtue of being here) that 7MC and/or SageTV ARE certainly more compelling. Especially when you include the ease of setup CableCard provides, over HD-PVR or any other STB based solution.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Actually, CableCard isn't used much because there is no compelling reason TO use it, EXCEPT, for a non-operator supplied PVR. I have a strong suspicion that a majority of cablecards currently in use are in TiVo's.

Isn't the original reason still compelling - to not need a cable box to watch premium cable HD channels? But do current model TVs even have CableCard slots.

If you are into design and have a fancy living room with a wall mounted screen it looks kind of out of place to have an ugly SA or Moto box sitting right under it. Sure you can hide it away but that is a fair bit of work involving IR extenders.

[Fuzzy]

No, most tv manufacturers stopped including cablecard slots. Leaving the PVR issue the last bastion of the CableCard.

[mpogr]

Here's is my wishlist from the next version of Sage:
* Support for DVB subtitles, in both PC client and extender. Indeed, this has been promised long time ago (during the previous beta cycle) but since then - nothing
* Better support for DVB/ATSC recording. Right now a single tuner can record a single program at the same time. There is no reason why it wouldn't be possible to record multiple simultaneous programs from the same transponder using a single physical tuner. This is not a biggie for people using my plugin, but, still, it's a necessary step in order to better compete with other Media Center software, e.g. Media Portal and GBPVR.
* Updated UI.
* Much better handling of video/music/picture libraries. Right now Sage makes an almost perfect computer-based PVR, but it's far from being an ideal Media Center.

As you can see, the list is not long, as Sage is really quite perfect for my current usage patterns.

[Fuzzy]

While I can see a need for utilizing multiple streams from the same channel, SageTV, being in North America, are probably not that inclined to go through the major work it'll take to get there. There simply isn't much of that available here.

[mpogr]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

While I can see a need for utilizing multiple streams from the same channel, SageTV, being in North America, are probably not that inclined to go through the major work it'll take to get there. There simply isn't much of that available here.

Pardon my sarcasm, but I haven't seen anywhere a statement from Sage saying their products are targeted at North American market only. Neither I've seen such a disclaimer on the Web site selling their licenses. The fact they are a North American company doesn't (and shouldn't) mean they provide their other paying customers with lesser support...