Do you want to use SageTV for Home Automation?

[heatvent]

Alright, I tried a catchy title that is somewhat vague as an attention grabber, hope this works. I am wondering why there aren't more home automation users in the SageTV community. Seems like a natural fit. I use HomeSeer which is a web based home automation application. It has almost limitless application to control things around the house. Most commonly, you can control lights and appliances through events and scripting and logon via the internet to turn lights on and off, etc. Example would be say you want to watch a movie, you could press a button and the lights would be dimmed, the tv turned on to the right input, dvd player turns on, drawer opens, etc.

HomeSeer is very customizable through scipts (can use java or vb) or through plug-ins (written in vb).

First, what I would envision is a HomeSeer plugin that is basically a Nielm's webserver lite. Any extenders would be added as devices that could be turned on/off and remotely controled by HS. There would also be access to the EPG and recordings to manage and schedule recordings. This would allow the extenders to be easily integrated into the HA setup without need for IR emiters, etc. and would also create a one stop shop for HS users (HA and TV all scheduling all in one spot -- on the HS web interface).

Second, a "plug-in" for Sage could also be useful. Common setup would be to have a "Home Automation" selection on the menu and be able to control devices in categories like lighting, security, HVAC, etc. Also the ability to trigger events/scenes.

I know there are other threads that have started and peetered out but I thought I would try to fan the fire one more time.

[MitchSchaft]

There are a lot of us. I use mControl and there is a guy here supposedly writing an addin for Sage.

[petereader]

I don't know if you already ran into this but this guy is Sage Forum member IVB. I even think he may have had a home automation plugin some years ago (if he didn't create it, I bet he knows who did). Can't find it now for the life of me. I am not a home automation user myself (not yet, anyways), but remembered a plugin a few years back and though I'd mention it.

[sic0048]

IVB now uses CQC as do I. We can control just about every aspect of SageTV (clients and/or extenders) from CQC. There is currently no way for use to control CQC from inside Sage - this is what you hope to do with your menus inside Sage. I think the capacity is there, but it takes someone with Sage customization skills to write something up. I guess we just need to get Nielm hooked on CQC

One way I use CQC is with my IR remote control. I use a Harmony 550 which I could program with a lot of macros, but instead I let CQC handle everything. So when I press "Watch Sage" it only sends out a single IR command which is very short. CQC reads that command and actually changes all the equipment to the correct settings, channels, light levels etc. I'm sure the remote could handle 99% of this, but it would require holding the remote at the equipment for long periods of time while the macro executed. Now, even if it takes 15 seconds for everything to warm up and change to the correct settings, I can put the remote down and do something else while that goes on. For example, my TV is dumb while it warms up and won't accept commands for the first 12 seconds or so. With a regular programmable remote, I'd have to hold the remote at the TV for the entire warm up sequence.

The remote also sends the same commands out for all the functions. The ir code sent by the remote when the "Play" button is pressed is aways the same. CQC determines which device is being used and sends the "Play" command to the correct device. So if I'm watching Sage, it tells the correct Sage extender to play. If I am watching a DVD from my mega changer, CQC tells the DVD player to "Play" etc. This prevents the remote from ever getting out of sync with the system because the commands are always the same.

Of course that is just one little example of how I am using the system.

[Humanzee]

I think you'll find that you need an advocate and someone willing to code a plug in for your automation software of choice. I use vCrib for home automation, and there was some talk a while ago about integrating EventGhost to control Sage from the automation software. The problem being there was not enough interest from the vcrib folks who also use sage.

In reality my lighting is all automated, so I rarely touch buttons or software to do anything with lighting. I struggle to think of ways that I would actually use sage with the automation. A button press can just as easily be outside of a sage interface so lighting scenes, or what ever, can be managed regardless of your HTPC software or sage interface.

I see the benefit in a sagetv plugin comes when you want data back from your house, or you want to control something from an extender. I.e. check a alarm status to see if you left the garage door open, automatically bring up security camera window when there is motion at the front porch or over ride a setting or two. The problem comes in that each automation system is unique in its implementation per the home that it is installed in. Writing a plug-in that is homeseer, CQC, or vCrib compliant may be tough if you want it to also have the customized look and feel that your home automation software provides. If sage could load web pages inside its interface, a lot of options would open up.

There are already ways to integrate side systems into sage like nielm's info popup, and sendmessage.exe. Taking it to the next level could take a lot of personalized work. I'm not trying to discount the idea entirely, I just think that a system specific sage plug-in may not ever be able to provide the personalized interface to your automation system that you would ultimately be happy with.

It's like the online services section in sage, nice that its there, but clumsy when compared to the interface that content was designed to be displayed or managed in. If you are on a media extender and you have no other options then its ok, but not a first choice.

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

In reality my lighting is all automated, so I rarely touch buttons or software to do anything with lighting. I struggle to think of ways that I would actually use sage with the automation. A button press can just as easily be outside of a sage interface so lighting scenes, or what ever, can be managed regardless of your HTPC software or sage interface.

How about, you are sitting in the basement watching a movie..it's the dead cold of winter and you are getting chilly. You could go to the HA menu, select HVAC and set the thermostat to a toasty 73 degrees.

BTW, I use the HD-200 so I need Sage to tell HS to tell my thermostat to go to 73 degrees.

There are a lot of other things someone might want to control from the couch instead of getting up. Sage would make a good interface because it could be customized for thermostats, lighting, etc, and won't run out of buttons.

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by sic0048

IVB now uses CQC as do I. We can control just about every aspect of SageTV (clients and/or extenders) from CQC. There is currently no way for use to control CQC from inside Sage - this is what you hope to do with your menus inside Sage. I think the capacity is there, but it takes someone with Sage customization skills to write something up. I guess we just need to get Nielm hooked on CQC

One way I use CQC is with my IR remote control. I use a Harmony 550 which I could program with a lot of macros, but instead I let CQC handle everything. So when I press "Watch Sage" it only sends out a single IR command which is very short. CQC reads that command and actually changes all the equipment to the correct settings, channels, light levels etc. I'm sure the remote could handle 99% of this, but it would require holding the remote at the equipment for long periods of time while the macro executed. Now, even if it takes 15 seconds for everything to warm up and change to the correct settings, I can put the remote down and do something else while that goes on. For example, my TV is dumb while it warms up and won't accept commands for the first 12 seconds or so. With a regular programmable remote, I'd have to hold the remote at the TV for the entire warm up sequence.

The remote also sends the same commands out for all the functions. The ir code sent by the remote when the "Play" button is pressed is aways the same. CQC determines which device is being used and sends the "Play" command to the correct device. So if I'm watching Sage, it tells the correct Sage extender to play. If I am watching a DVD from my mega changer, CQC tells the DVD player to "Play" etc. This prevents the remote from ever getting out of sync with the system because the commands are always the same.

Of course that is just one little example of how I am using the system.

I agree with you need to have someone with the skills. The part I find interesting is both TV and HA tend to have a group of very techie followers that don't mind rolling up their sleeves to do some customization. The strange thing is there doesn't seem to be a lot of these people using both (i.e. a SageTV contributor who also does a lot of HA customization and vice versa).

And it would be a special set of skills for HomeSeer. SageTV is java based and HS uses visual basic so you would have to be familiar with both.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by heatvent

How about, you are sitting in the basement watching a movie..it's the dead cold of winter and you are getting chilly. You could go to the HA menu, select HVAC and set the thermostat to a toasty 73 degrees.

BTW, I use the HD-200 so I need Sage to tell HS to tell my thermostat to go to 73 degrees.

There are a lot of other things someone might want to control from the couch instead of getting up. Sage would make a good interface because it could be customized for thermostats, lighting, etc, and won't run out of buttons.

That is a great example.

mControl can do something like this with VMC I believe, but I don't know of any automation software set up to do that with SageTV at this time.

Now truth be told, in my case, I could have my little Nokia N800 wireless tablet next to me and make the changes to he HVAC system (I use RCS thermostats). If fact, I could use the Nokia as a full fledge wireless touchscreen remote control for the entire system (including sage) but found that our family likes the hard button remote controls better than the fancy touchscreens. We use the Nokia primarily to control the two outside audio zones (ie selecting songs and changing the volume for the speakers outside by the pool and also in the garage).

EDIT - for that matter, I guess I could program a couple of buttons on the Harmony 550 to increase and decrease the HVAC setpoint. One reason I decided to go with the 550 was the 4 button LCD screen at the top of the remote which allows me to custom name buttons like this where there is no standard remote button that would make sense. So you can create a "HVAC Up" and "HVAC Dn" button and use CQC to control the HVAC system. If my wife complains about the temperature I might just do this Thanks for the idea!

[MitchSchaft]

Yeah, mcontrol can do that with windows media center. I just have my insteon RemoteLinc take care of that now since Sage doesn't have a plugin. You could also use your phone or regular remote controlif you wanted to.

[Straykat]

I did something like this using the menus provided by the Nielm Dynamic Customisable Menu plug-in. http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...?do=file&id=29

I created a separate menu for home automation then tied the buttons to command line functions where I have code written to kick off x-10 commands with command line parameters from hidden CMD windows which then kicked off macros on the smarthome CM11A controller. Of course you could do this using other interfaces/home control devices other than X-10.

Bottom line, once I could tie command line actions to SageTV buttons, the automation quickly followed. Movie lighting settings, projector, motorized screens, all macroed within the CM11a and triggered by one X10 command from Sage.

What I REALLY want, is a way to trigger command line actions from a SageTV video playlist to finish off my theater!

[Fonceur]

As others have said, there are already some plugins to do SageTV in CQC and SageTV in MainLobby, but doing it the other way around is trickier than it looks. Trying to support multiple HA devices is far from trivial and depends how each HA system exposes things... It's one thing to hard code controls for your system, but making it so it works for everyone else, that's the catch...

[wado1971]

Originally Posted by petereader

..... think he may have had a home automation plugin some years ago (if he didn't create it, I bet he knows who did). Can't find it now for the life of me.

I think this is the plugin your talking about HAL Home Automation
Unfortunately all the links are dead but it looked real cool a couple yrs ago.

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by Straykat

I did something like this using the menus provided by the Nielm Dynamic Customisable Menu plug-in. http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...?do=file&id=29

I created a separate menu for home automation then tied the buttons to command line functions where I have code written to kick off x-10 commands with command line parameters from hidden CMD windows which then kicked off macros on the smarthome CM11A controller. Of course you could do this using other interfaces/home control devices other than X-10.

Bottom line, once I could tie command line actions to SageTV buttons, the automation quickly followed. Movie lighting settings, projector, motorized screens, all macroed within the CM11a and triggered by one X10 command from Sage.

The issue is I want 2 way reporting. I want Sage to know the status of a light, etc. as well as control it, and I want HomeSeer to know the status of my Sage extenders, and to be able to control them. Kindof like this:

Sage Plugin                 Sage---Control--->HS
                                <---Status----

HS Plugin                  Sage<---Control---HS
                                ---Status---->

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by heatvent

How about, you are sitting in the basement watching a movie..it's the dead cold of winter and you are getting chilly. You could go to the HA menu, select HVAC and set the thermostat to a toasty 73 degrees.

I see your point given the extender and everything, but really this sounds like a limit of your automation system or the way its configured. Why is your automation allowing you to get cold in the first place? It should know that you are in the basement and it should know what temperature you like it when you are in the basement after 10pm on movie Tuesday or what ever.

My only point being that there are multiple ways to approach an automation problem for any given scenario. In my interpretation, automation should control things so that it never occurs to you that its cold or too bright etc. It sounds like your describing a remote controlled house rather than an truly automated house. That's fine and big flat screens are really nice if you can also use them for your automation panel.

I myself have an automation interface gap when it comes to the extender in the bedroom, I just have elected to work around it with text to speech status reports, voice recognition commands, remote buttons for arming security etc. If there were a universal solution to interface automation system X with sagetv I would probably be first in line. As it stands, and as you yourself pointed out, the meeting of the minds between sage contributers and the various HA developers is the biggest challenge to getting your two way interface. Not impossible but a challenge.

Else plan B is a path of little resistance, get a cheap used tablet PC to be your automation panel for the basement. I was even thinking of getting a netbook and zip tie'n it to the back of the LCD in the bedroom to supplement the extender and give me the automation stuff I'm missing on that screen. Time vs money, I seem to have little of each.

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

I see your point given the extender and everything, but really this sounds like a limit of your automation system or the way its configured. Why is your automation allowing you to get cold in the first place? It should know that you are in the basement and it should know what temperature you like it when you are in the basement after 10pm on movie Tuesday or what ever.

My only point being that there are multiple ways to approach an automation problem for any given scenario. In my interpretation, automation should control things so that it never occurs to you that its cold or too bright etc. It sounds like your describing a remote controlled house rather than an truly automated house. That's fine and big flat screens are really nice if you can also use them for your automation panel.

I myself have an automation interface gap when it comes to the extender in the bedroom, I just have elected to work around it with text to speech status reports, voice recognition commands, remote buttons for arming security etc. If there were a universal solution to interface automation system X with sagetv I would probably be first in line. As it stands, and as you yourself pointed out, the meeting of the minds between sage contributers and the various HA developers is the biggest challenge to getting your two way interface. Not impossible but a challenge.

Else plan B is a path of little resistance, get a cheap used tablet PC to be your automation panel for the basement. I was even thinking of getting a netbook and zip tie'n it to the back of the LCD in the bedroom to supplement the extender and give me the automation stuff I'm missing on that screen. Time vs money, I seem to have little of each.

There is actually 1 HTPC system that is supported...windows media center. I know mControl works with it as well as there is a plugin for HS and I believe HAL (not sure about CQC). It's been done just need someone with the skills and ambition to want to do a plugin.

[Wirenut]

I've been using the HAL Automation plugin for a couple of years now. The one written by "Bohica." At least one other person from this board was using this as well. It's flawless for me. And it works on Extenders. The HAL2000 software has a free trial. HAL's come a long ways in the last couple releases. There's a lot more Insteon support as well as UPB format... and of course X10. And really good voice recognition built right in. As well as some nice add-in voices, I use the british female. http://www.homeautomatedliving.com

The plugin is well written and automatically parses all devices in your automation system... so adding or deleting devices is very simple... the Sage interface is refreshed with one keystroke and picks up all the addressed devices.... Even allows you to dim lights and fan speeds, all on screen, with the same remote, in the same UI as Sage. With the HAL phone modem, you can even get your voicemail by onscreen UI and the remote. There's even an onscreen phone directory from the HAL phonebook data. Pretty slick really. The HAL forum is very friendly and helpful as well.

This however was written for the Standard STV... but could be ported over for SageMC, I'm sure.

There's a little app called "HALiTS" that runs the interops to expose Hal's ActiveX command interface. You just run that prog [in the tray], and import the STVi and you're good to go. It's all pretty light weight.

Also, I have Hal2000 4.0.26 and SageTV 6.5.19 in server mode and using a local client ALL ON THE SAME SERVER.... WITHOUT ISSUE. [It's a 3Ghz P4 Wolfdale and 2Gig ram, Win XP pro SP3] Even with comskipping and HDTV [HDHR and a PVR500 for SD] recording three or four shows simultaneously, there's no issues. I use the slimplayer plugin as well.

It's nice to have SageTV for the front end of my Home Automation gear.

I have all the necessary files, including source code, saved away securely at home. I could provide them if anybody was interested in trying it out.

Peace,

Wirenut

[heatvent]

Maybe there's a way to adapt to HS. I started with HAL v3 but dropped them for HomeSeer. I bought v3 just before they announced the free upgrade to v4 and missed by a couple of days. Tim (the president of HAL) refused to give me a free upgrade so I dropped HAL for this reason as well as the releases are very very slow to come out (every couple of years), HAL has had issues being buggy, lack of equipment support (HS has hundreds of plugins, many free ones some you pay for. I needed W800RF support as well as HAI thermostats. HAL doesnt support the W800 and wants you to buy HAL 2000 for HVAC). I think the voice recognition worked a little smoother in HAL but HS has a lot of other advantages including being administered entirely via a web interface which makes it ease to get at on a headless system.

[Wirenut]

Sorry to hear that. I totally understand.

Version 4 is pretty rock solid though... big changes from v3.

Peace,

Wirenut

[SnyperBob]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

I think you'll find that you need an advocate and someone willing to code a plug in for your automation software of choice. I use vCrib for home automation, and there was some talk a while ago about integrating EventGhost to control Sage from the automation software. The problem being there was not enough interest from the vcrib folks who also use sage.
.

I'm interested in this! And I use vcrib!!

[SnyperBob]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

Why is your automation allowing you to get cold in the first place? It should know that you are in the basement and it should know what temperature you like it when you are in the basement after 10pm on movie Tuesday or what ever.

Not trying to sound like a d*ck, but I was thinking the same thing when I read that.