Home Automation and SageTV integration

[davefred99]

I am getting the bug to start using home automation for lighting and security. Other than one pluggin for Sage using HAL Delux as a conduit. I do not see much mentioned about HOME Automation here on the Sage Forums.
I am planning to start out with some simple light controls in my main TV room. Simple on/of and dimming stuff for watching TV. Then if all goes well I will start adding whole house lighting control with sensors and timers etc. Once that is all working well I plan on moving to home security.
My Plans at this time are to use Insteon devices which are a more modern variation on the old X-10 platform and still backwards compatible. I have not decided on what software interface I will use to tie it all together. I also am leaning towards using an ELK-m1 security interface, but I am still searching all of this.
I would like to here from any fellow Sage Users who might have already implemented Home Automation into there Homes and how the used it with SageTV. I am planning on using my Sage Server to run my Automation Software interface if I go that route. There are also Controller interfaces that do not require the computer except to do initial programing too. Again I am still researching.
The only hitch in my current plans are how to integrate IR using my Harmony 88o remote to control the lights. The Harmony can use X-10 ir commands and Insteon devices can run in X-10 mode but it is not the best way to do things. Insteon is supposed to be releasing an ir bridge device for ir integration with Insteon controls but Its not here yet.
To sum things up I am just looking for some feedback On how others have implemented Home Automation.

[matt91]

There is this:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17177

*edit: You can also troll that thread for other users who are doing HA and might have advice.

[GKusnick]

When I built my condo recently, one of the issues that came up was how much automation to design in. My architect, my contractor, my lighting consultant, and my AV consultant all agreed that the sky's the limit, that anything I wanted could be done one way or another -- but they all advised me to resist that temptation and keep it simple. Not just because of expense, but because in all their years of building homes, none of them had yet installed a high-end automation system that the homeowner came away happy with. The technology may be there, but in the opinion of these professionals, the usability still has a long way to go.

So I ended up with separate systems for lighting, shade control, and AV, and so far I haven't regretted it. It's just not that big a deal to get up and hit a button on the wall when I want to change the lighting or lower the shades.

I do have an integrated whole-house AV system in which my rackmount Sage server is just one of several AV sources that can be routed to any screen in the house. There's a universal remote that selects which source to display and then controls the selected source. This required some custom programming of the AV controller by the AV consultant, and also a custom plugin (written by me) on the Sage server to allow the controller to navigate the Sage UI via TCP. (In other words, IR commands from the remote are received by the AV controller and then relayed by LAN to the Sage server.)

This all works fairly well for my purposes, but it's not quite what you asked for in that Sage is not the control center of my system, it's just one AV source controllable by the AV controller. And there's no integration of lighting, shade control, security, or what have you, through Sage or otherwise.

[BFisher]

My house is very automated... but I don't use Sage for any of that. I suppose you could design some menus for that... but there are better ways to do it.

If you really want to learn, I recommend stopping by cocoontech.com. Great exchange of information there.

Regarding hardware, I went a different route using Networx (formerly Caddx, for Security), RCS (for HVAC), UPB (for lighting), JRiver Media (multi-zone audio), Sage (multi-zone video), and controlling/integrating everything via Homevision Pro (very powerful and reliable). In my opinion, I've picked the best of breed solutions. Elk is very good, but it has some limitations (it does a lot of things such as security, but I opted for dedicated systems in case of failures (they all integrate very easily)). Careful with Insteon, I've seen quite a few people regret that decision. Someday it may be robust, but from what I've heard support is still a bit weak.

[stevech]

Or the popular

http://board.homeseer.com
for
homeseer.com

I run that and Sage Server on the same PC. It's also a web server. Homeseer has a documented API if you want to script it.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

When I built my condo recently, one of the issues that came up was how much automation to design in. My architect, my contractor, my lighting consultant, and my AV consultant all agreed that the sky's the limit, that anything I wanted could be done one way or another -- but they all advised me to resist that temptation and keep it simple. Not just because of expense, but because in all their years of building homes, none of them had yet installed a high-end automation system that the homeowner came away happy with. The technology may be there, but in the opinion of these professionals, the usability still has a long way to go.

The other big thing to think about, and what has so far stopped me from going crazy with HA, is resale. I'm sure I could setup a great HA system that does all kinds of cool stuff and that I like. But what happens in 2-3 years if/when I move? It would be a pain to remove it all, and I suspect it probably wouldn't be a big "plus" when selling (I fear a DIY HA system would in fact be a rather significant minus).

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The other big thing to think about, and what has so far stopped me from going crazy with HA, is resale. I'm sure I could setup a great HA system that does all kinds of cool stuff and that I like. But what happens in 2-3 years if/when I move? It would be a pain to remove it all, and I suspect it probably wouldn't be a big "plus" when selling (I fear a DIY HA system would in fact be a rather significant minus).

Stranger89
A lot of the HA stuff just involves plug-in lamp and appliance modules and some sort of pc and or remote interface. Not a big investment and easy to pack up when you leave. Even adding dimmer switches & wired controls does not cost that much and they function just like any normal switch if you decide to move and leave them installed. I have spent a whole lot more money on outdated AV and HTPC stuff that I will never get any return on either.
I am sort fortunate in that I am already a Low Voltage Contractor so I can purchase most stuff at dealer pricing. My main business is in Satellite based distance learning systems and Business TV. I also do a lot of Portable Satellite downlink events for hotels and business meetings. I think of it as R&D for future clients. As to whether or not it adds to the value of my home and I can get any return on my investment, I dont really care. Its great to be able to work and get paid for things that you would do for fun anyways.
Dave

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davefred99

Stranger89
A lot of the HA stuff just involves plug-in lamp and appliance modules and some sort of pc and or remote interface. Not a big investment and easy to pack up when you leave. Even adding dimmer switches & wired controls does not cost that much and they function just like any normal switch if you decide to move and leave them installed. I have spent a whole lot more money on outdated AV and HTPC stuff that I will never get any return on either.

True, but I was thinking more along the lines of the even cooler and more complex stuff. Things like installing keypanels for audio, integrated thermostats, etc. Things that aren't really useful without the whole system, and since I'm the DIY type, "the system" might be a down since it wouldn't be "professionaly installed" or have any sort of support with it. Basically I'd be affraid to build something like IVB on AVSForum has done in a home I'm not planning to stay in indefinitely. He's got an awesome setup, but if it were me, it's not one I'd feel comfortable leaving to the next owners, and not one you can remove easilly.

But like you said, some stuff is easy and can be left behind. I've got IR controlled dimmers in my HT (still trying to figure out how best to automate them), and I'm definitely looking at getting some Zwave stuff.

As to whether or not it adds to the value of my home and I can get any return on my investment, I dont really care. Its great to be able to work and get paid for things that you would do for fun anyways.
Dave

I may well be in a somewhat different situation in that I hope to move in a few years, I wouldn't want to build something IVB-like that could be a negative on the home when I sell it.

[CollinR]

You can use EventGhost for RF>IR>x10 or whatever. Thats how I did mine and its shortcomings are related to x10 which you already know about.

As was mentioned the best place for home automation information is CocoonTech.com.

Also I wouldn't jump to Insteon either...

EDIT:

WOULD NOT

[spike5884]

For my home automation I am using HouseBot from Cebotics. I took the approach of controlling SageTv from Housebot. Housebot allows you to create software remotes that can be deployed on pcs, tablets, and/or Windows CE devices. You can create a 'super' remote using a tablet pc and wifi. With the proper hardware, you can also use IR remotes. Check out the site and see what is possible.

[geogecko]

I agree with what has mostly been said here. I jumped on the Insteon bandwagon, and while I think it was a good decision for me, there are shortcomings.

It's still fairly new, when you consider X10, but it's a big jump over X10, IMO. The support isn't quite there, and for the first time in several years, they just released the first wireless product (remotelinc), and it has some issues too. They will get things ironed out eventually, but at the cost of current users not being able to have those fixes, due to it being in firmware that is not user upgradable, such as issues with KeypadLincs, etc.

I was going to integrate using the HAL plugin for Sage, but then thought, you know, I have an RF remote here that would instantly control lights, etc, why would I want to navigate through Sage to do that...

I am also wondering what to do about an alarm system. I was going to go with an Elk system too, but am thinking of just going with a standard Honeywell stand alone system.

My wife is the one that really keeps me in check, every new thing I add, her comment is, "if you ever died, I wouldn't even know how to turn the TV on."

When we moved this summer, I only had a handful of Insteon devices, all of which I removed and took with me (only 3 dimmers, the rest were plug-in devices), but now, I've got at least 10-12 different devices wired in, and knowing how long it took me to install each one, I will not be removing them when we leave, but I feel like even if we take the plug-in modules with us, it still adds to the appeal of the house, having keypadlincs in a couple of key places that are programmed, and others. You just have to be smart about it, and realize that if you are using wired-in devices, you probably will not want to remove them if you move, and think of it as an investment in your house. Some people do remember cool things like that, and it would help them remember the house, "remember that one house, with the cool light controls?"

Some houses you walk in are nice, but once you've looked at 6 or 12 houses in one day, something really has to stand out to make you remember it...

Anyway, a bit off the subject, but I think you may be getting the idea to what some of us are saying. Full integration is not necessary, but if you really want it, it can be done with a lot of work!

[andypitt]

Not sure if anyone is interest but we have a driver created using neilms web server for Control4

[wayner]

Originally Posted by andypitt

Not sure if anyone is interest but we have a driver created using neilms web server for Control4

I would love this as I have a C4 system for lights and thermostat. Where do I get this?

Control4 is a fairly good system but IMHO the company seems to have the attitude that they are better off limiting what users can do. You have to be a dealer to get the fully functional software and they seem to try to keep the system very closed. For example, the iPhone app that has just been introduced costs $200 - they should open up the API and let anyone write addins, just like SageTV.

[ChuckSchick]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Basically I'd be affraid to build something like IVB on AVSForum has done in a home I'm not planning to stay in indefinitely. ...

I've had many of the same thoughts regarding my system. I figure the Elk-M1G would have to stay as it is part of the security system. As would the in-wall upb switches. There are ELK dealers in my area, so a new owner could just use one of those dealers for support. My rats-nest programming could be overwritten by the dealer's in minutes.

Rather than in-wall keypads for audio, I strongly recommend looking at the Sonos systems. http://www.sonos.com/ They don't integrate, but they are so darn good it doesn't matter. It's also completely portable to a new house. For selecting music, I figure you don't want to be standing in front of the wall -- you want to be sitting on the porch.

[IVB]

FWIW, If(When) I leave my house, my intention is remove 100% of the equipment, leaving just the wiring in place. That way it can be billed as "automation-ready", but not "automated and call me if something goes wrong". I can leave the name & # of a local CQC installer, or they can do Control4, or AMX, or DIY; since the wiring is all there, it's system agnostic.

Hell, I'll likely even pull all the zWave switches out, and just put regular ones in its place.

[wayner]

My strategy is that my next move is not me carrying boxes, it is someone carrying me out in a box. Then I don't care about the next user of the HA system (Control4). I better hope I outlive my wife or else my memory will be cursed on a regular basis.

[cncb]

I did a "piecemeal" approach that kept costs low and makes it easy to move. I bought the ControlThink ZWave (wireless) SDK when it came out that included a USB stick PC controller. I then gradually bought a few ZWave plug-in modules (still controlled by wireless) and one dimmer wall switch. I plugged some old X10 wireless cameras into the ZWave modules so that I can control which camera is active with ZWave.

I also wrote a simple ZWave server application with the SDK that can set scenes and control devices that responds to timed events or a command line EXE. In SageMC I added some menu items to activate cameras or dim my "tv room" lights to various levels and hooked up unused Sage commands to activate the menu items.

So, the end result is that my very simple "home automation" is integrated with SageTV. I can dim the lights or switch to the baby cam, etc. with my remote as long as my HD100 is powered on.

[sic0048]

CQC has a driver that will control SageTV and the HD extenders. I know IVB's dream is to get someone with Sage Studio experience involved to allow a person to control CQC from the SageTV interfaces. We aren't there yet, but you can control SageTV from any of the CQC interfaces (computers, touchscreens, mobile devices, remote controls, etc).

GKusnick - you might eventually want to look at CQC or one of the other DIY friendly software automation systems. You could probably tie all of those individual systems together using the automation software. So when you press play on the remote, it turns your TV on, starts SageTV, turns the lights down, and closes the blinds, etc, etc, etc (just as an example).

[wayner]

Are there any Control4 users out there? Have you done integration of Sage with Control4?

I have a C4 system that I use only for lighting and HVAC. One of these days I may start using the C4 system for some media but I haven't bothered since I don't think it is as good as Sage at this. As a general comment C4 is a lot more "closed" then I would like it to be as they want to sell their own hardware for everything and make you use dealers. They sell very expensive touch screen modules that are substantially more then it would cost to buy a tablet PC to do the same thing - hence they don't offer PC based software to control their systems.

[tpboyce]

I am trying to find the time to glue the threads together between mControl and Sage Studio. Although Sage gives a good example of using .NET within Java, I still feel like I am playing Twister in a cactus field!