An open letter to SageTV and Hauppauge management

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by reggie14

So, are you claiming that the HD-PVR doesn't have fairly widespread issues? About a month ago you said:

And, based on your sig, you're using firewire channel changing too, as opposed to the Happauge IR blaster (which, by the way, I've used for 8 months without any issues). So, you're not really using all the advertised features of the HD-PVR.

The point is I did my research before I bought the HD-PVR. When I bought it, I knew that SPDIF wasn't working at the time. The driver didn't support it and I wasn't planning to use SPDIF anyway. I actually waited out till they fixed the over heating problem before buying the HD-PVR. So it's good to do some research before buying or else you might be disappointed.

And I knew from past experience with IR Blasters in general that they don't work too well. I've tried the hauppauge IR, ActiSys IR, and the USB-UIRT, and they were all flakey in one way or another. YMMV of course, but given the option with something that works 100% (analog audio on HD-PVR and firewire channel changing) versus something that might or might not work (SPDIF and IR Blasters), I go with the sure thing. So I also did my research about firewire channel changing first before I got the HD-PVR.

[Brent]

There definitely have been many threads similar to this one. The Hauppauge HD-PVR is a great device, but not without its warts and not everyone has had great success with it although many have. So while it has been said many times before I'll restate a few important points on the issue:

• Some Hauppauge HD-PVRs have experienced overheating issues. If yours is locking up frequently or seems to be overheating immediately get an RMA from Hauppauge as they are exchanging these for those experiencing that issue.
• The included IR blaster from Hauppauge is less than great. If you have a USB-UIRT to use instead you'll be much happier
• If you can control your set-top-box with firewire do it - its much better then IR blasting with or without the HD-PVR so do it if you can
• You should have the output resolution hard-set on your STB so it doesn't switch back and forth
• Some STB's automatically shut down after a period of idle. There is a plugin to avoid this issue.
• Hauppauge has released many driver updates. If you have a working HD-PVR, proceed with caution with these updates as Hauppauge has a shakey track record on getting the drivers right the first time.

If you have issues that are SageTV related or could be helped by SageTV, submit a bug and follow their instructions to resolve it. If they are working on specific issues update with those betas and work to help them get the issue resolved.

If you have issues with the driver or hardware, your best bet is to deal with Hauppauge.

[DOS64K]

Posts like these don't serve any purpose than other than to give the OP a forum to vent in.
Anyone who's worked with PCs knows all too well that you can't always get them to play nice. Take any 10 PCs, put them in a room and try to get them all to work exactly the same and what do you get... a headache! Drivers, chipsets, memory, OSs, etc. all conspire to make any new trick we try to teach them an exercise in frustration and futility.
If it were easy, anyone could do it.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by Wheemer

I've wanted to purchase an HD-PVR a few times now, but I've been waiting to see all it's issues fixed. It seems like after the product has been out so long they should have things working. I guess not...

I'm really not sure what you're looking for here. You take any piece of hardware or software no mater how old or mature and in the right circumstances and combinations it can and will have issues. But as other's have stated you only hear about the problems on most forms.

For whatever reason my setup has worked almost flawlessly since day one (and this is using DD5.1 and the Hauppage IR blaster). I can't say it's been perfect but in the about 6-months I've had my D2 rev unit I've had a total of three issues and one was my fault (I knocked out the SPDIF cable by accident which causes the unit to stop recording). The other two were IR blaster issues that were easily resolved with a reboot.

I'm not sure I could tell you why my setup is fine any more than other's can state why they're having issues but here's at least one endorsmenet for "it just worked".

[Chriscic]

Ah yes, there are always a number of "blame the user" responses to threads like this. It's your configuration, you are using a feature you should know is quirky, you should have waited until the hardware was fixed, blah blah blah. That's not aimed at any particular person or response, but please give me a break.

There's an issue here. If not widespread it's a least common. The question is where to go from here. I'm going to try and work with Sage since they've offered and then go back to Hauppauge if needed. I already swapped my original C1 unit for a C2, and then that for a D2, so I'm really not eager to screw around with sending more units back to perhaps no effect. My second unit I purchased is also a D2.

Cheers,
-Chris

[sic0048]

Maybe all of us that have working HD-PVRs need to start a new "My HD-PVR is working great" thread every couple of days. Perhaps that would let people know that it does work for a lot of people. We can all double and triple post about our non-issues and get some spirited conversations going.

I don't think anyone would say that the HD-PVR is without some issues. That being said, it does work for a lot of us. So it isn't total crap either. I think Hauppauge and Sage are working to make it better for everyone.

I had to RMA my first unit due to the overheating issues. When I got my second units, I had trouble getting the Hauppauge Blaster working with the newer software. After turning in a Sage Support ticket, I got the help I needed. Turns out that the Hauppauge IR software needs to be installed before SageTV. This meant that I had to uninstall and then reinstall SageTV. I was skeptical that this would work, but I followed the advice and it worked. Uninstalling and immediately reinstalling SageTV made the order of installation correct and I haven't had any HD-PVR problems since.

Now I am still running analog stereo sound. It is fine for my situation and I honestly don't want to run the risk of "breaking" something. So I can live with my HD-PVR just fine the way it is. If it really bothered me, I would go with the latest drivers and try the digital sound. If I had a problem, I would not hesitate in turning in another support ticket since that saved me lots of time and effort the first go round and ended up fixing my problem.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by sic0048

Maybe all of us that have working HD-PVRs need to start a new "My HD-PVR is working great" thread every couple of days. Perhaps that would let people know that it does work for a lot of people. We can all double and triple post about our non-issues and get some spirited conversations going.
.

So very true. Mine has been rock solid since I got it last July (nearing 10 months of operation). Some things I recommend:

1. Fixed resolution output. Then you don't have to worry about the time it takes the HDPVR to "lock in" to the current resolution output of the STB.
2. HD100/HD200 playback. There are a lot of threads about the pain of getting h.264 to playback smoothly on a PC. HD100/HD200's just work.
3. Do not place the unit ON the STB. The extra heat from the STB can cause extra lock ups.

I used to recommend analog audio capture only. However, many seem to have that fuctioning just fine, so I have stopped recommending that (but if you run into problems trying to capture via optical, try analog).

My setup of the HDPVR and experience has been great. Other than having to power cycle the HDPVR whenever I shut down my Sage Server for routine maintenance, I have no problems (I always seem to miss a recording because I forgot to power cycle it after the reboot).

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

3. Do not place the unit ON the STB. The extra heat from the STB can cause extra lock ups.

Hauppauge says they test with the thing sitting on an STB, so heat shouldn't be an issue. I think heat may now be a red herring & other issues are causing locks. (I don't have mine on my STBs either, though.)

I don't like saying this for fear of my HD-PVRs hearing about it & deciding to spite me, but I haven't had a lock since April 2, when I updated to the v1.5.6 beta drivers & covered the IR windows, since that was the latest witchcraft to try.

- Andy

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Hauppauge says they test with the thing sitting on an STB, so heat shouldn't be an issue. I think heat may now be a red herring & other issues are causing locks. (I don't have mine on my STBs either, though.)

Mine is

But they're also both on the top shelf of a rack, in my ~65 degree basement.

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Opus4

& covered the IR windows, since that was the latest witchcraft to try.

- Andy

This solved all my problems, have not had a lock-up in 3 months

[Skirge01]

@Andy: Can you tell me what I should look for in a log file (assuming I turn debug on) in order to see when a tuner has stopped or started capturing? I have 2 D2 units running side-by-side, one with analog and one with digital audio. Other than that single difference, the configuration is identical. They both record nearly 18 hours every day, so I'd like to try and track down when and where the issues are happening without having to be sitting in front of it when it occurs. I've got no problems doing the leg work to track down bugs myself, provided I have the right tools/info to do so.

[Opus4]

If you've updated to the latest HD-PVR driver, are still having problems, and want to help SageTV see if they can track down what is happening, then contact SageTV. The log will show some sort of message about detecting a halt in the tuner & it will try to restart the recording every 5 minutes. But, you won't be able to do much with that info past seeing it in the log, so talk to SageTV.

If you haven't yes updated to the latest HD-PVR driver, then do that before contacting SageTV because that will be the first thing you will be asked to do.

- Andy

[Skirge01]

I'm on the latest, released version, not the beta. I want to know IF I'm still having issues since I upgraded to 1.0.5.301 last week. The only way to know for certain right now is to sit in front of the HD-PVR and "hope" it hiccups. I'd like to be able to do it without wasting time watching the blue light for the couple of free hours I have after work.

The thing is, I don't believe this is Sage's fault and when I've contacted Sage in the past (only once or twice), I was told to try and make it happen and send the log file. But, I can't guarantee it'll happen during a measly 2 hours here and there. If I could look in the log file to find it happening, it'd be much easier to know I'm having issues in the first place and track down how to recreate it.

Right now, I believe I have it narrowed down to a single channel that can pretty reliably cause the hiccup. I guess I'll try asking support what I need to look for in the log. Hopefully they can be a little more specific, since I don't know if it would look the same for a scheduled start/stop as it would for the hiccup. If I knew that, then I could figure out what to look for based on any scheduled recording's start and stop.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by jack_leach

All this and more, and I'm STILL having numerous problems like:

- HD-PVR locks up and refuses to record
- Channel changing stops and requires restart of SageTV and/or HD-PVR
- Programs record that I didn't program
- Programs don't record that I DID program
- Audio distortion

I don't have the audio distortion. I've used both analog and digital audio. I do occasionally get audio sync issues, but almost always that is because either the server (old 3ghz P4 w/1gig ram) is overtaxed. Usually just hitting a 10sec rewind clears it up.

The middle 3 problems all sound like either your settings for the USBUIRT timing or possibly placement of the USBUIRT. I had to drastically cut down the times between individual codes from the default. Otherwise I'd get bad channel changes, the box (Comcast HD Motorla box) changing before all 3 digits were entered (timing out because the pause was too long between the digits).
Now that I have the timing right bad channel changes are extremely rare, maybe one out of every couple hundred. Honestly my last channel change error with the HD-PVR and USBUIRT was at least 2 months ago. And I use the HD-PVR/USBUIRT a LOT for recording.

Now the first problem of the HD-PVR locking up, and maybe even possibly the problem with the channel changing not working (if the HD-PVR isn't locked up) could be similar to my problem. My lowly P4 with 1 gig of ram has the Java heap set to 266 and when the Java has maxxed out or come very close is usually when my HD-PVR stops working. I get a Sage popup about every 15 minutes while the HD-PVR is trying to record saying there's a problem when I encounter this.
On rare occasions some other parts of Sage stop working. A reboot of the Sage Server always fixes it.

Sometimes I can get almost a week between reboots, other times I have to reboot about every day. One thing that really pegs my Java heap is when I set up my recordings. I usually do that once a week and set up everything I want as a manual recording. I usually reboot right after setting up my recordings to make sure I have a fresh Java heap so I can get a few days before I have to reboot again.

Next time your HD-PVR locks up check your java heap. If you're using the stock UI you can just hit the info button on the main menu and scroll down a couple pages and your Java current/high/max #'s will show. I'll bet when your HD-PVR locks up you'll find that the high # is at or very close to the max #.

[jack_leach]

Thanks Wayne! (sorry for the delayed response). You gave me several good tips that might help me out here.

Jack

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

Now the first problem of the HD-PVR locking up, and maybe even possibly the problem with the channel changing not working (if the HD-PVR isn't locked up) could be similar to my problem. My lowly P4 with 1 gig of ram has the Java heap set to 266 and when the Java has maxxed out or come very close is usually when my HD-PVR stops working. I get a Sage popup about every 15 minutes while the HD-PVR is trying to record saying there's a problem when I encounter this.
On rare occasions some other parts of Sage stop working. A reboot of the Sage Server always fixes it.

If you're able to get the HD-PVR working again with a server reboot, WITHOUT power cycling the HD-PVR itself, then you're encountering a different issue than most of us; I always have to power cycle the HD-PVR itself. A server reboot won't fix.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by sic0048

Maybe all of us that have working HD-PVRs need to start a new "My HD-PVR is working great" thread every couple of days. Perhaps that would let people know that it does work for a lot of people. .

excellent idea with the following suggestion:

if you want to say it is working great, i suggest that you not require restrictions which make the unit less than desirable.

to wit, i want 5.1 audio so saying that it works if i go to analog stereo is not my idea of 'working'

i also don't want the crappy scaling done by the STB to a fixed resolution so saying it works at 1080i fixed is not my idea of 'working' either.

if you can get yours to work reliably without compromising features that i (and others) consider important, please let us know how to do so (e.g. the voodoo of covering up the IR i haven't tried yet as i use firewire channel changing, but i'll cover it up so see if that mojo helps here)

now it is important to know which things (fixed output rez, no spdif) can be turned off to make the unit more stable as this is critical to getting these things fixed............i just can't agree that those restrictions are consistent with the unit 'working' per the stated capabilities of the hdpvr

cheers
(your mileage may vary..........don't want to start a flame war)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by cat6man

excellent idea with the following suggestion:

if you want to say it is working great, i suggest that you not require restrictions which make the unit less than desirable.

to wit, i want 5.1 audio so saying that it works if i go to analog stereo is not my idea of 'working'

I've had 5.1 going for a few months now with no issues.

i also don't want the crappy scaling done by the STB to a fixed resolution so saying it works at 1080i fixed is not my idea of 'working' either.

Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm cursed by since my STB wont' do native output, 1080i works fine for me, and since 99.9% of my recordings are 1080i....

if you can get yours to work reliably without compromising features that i (and others) consider important, please let us know how to do so (e.g. the voodoo of covering up the IR i haven't tried yet as i use firewire channel changing, but i'll cover it up so see if that mojo helps here)

I never covered my IR port, but I do use a USB-UIRT because I had it set up already. My UIRT has never missed a tune.

About all I really know is all my problems went away around the time I updated to the next to most recent WHQL drivers, and Sage suggested I change the delay after tuning parameter (which is now default in the recent 6.5 builds). I haven't bothered updating to the latest drivers because my setup is working fine for me.

[toricred]

So the version of drivers you are using is the 1.5.0.301?

[stanger89]

Actually the 1.0.5.3 per device manager.