An Open Letter to Frey

[ToonGal]

I love SageTV; I really do. I've been enamored with the convergence of computers and media for some time, and am excited to see the realization of the potential of the HTPC. I believe SageTV is the premiere PVR component to that solution.

I love Frey; I really do. Months of fruitless research for a long-term functional PVR ended with a simple trip to Las Vegas. (If only all problems were solved so easily.) The highlight of my first day was talking to Jeffrey. His functional v2 multi-tuner prototype, grasp of the technology, and vision of the future clinched my purchase decision. After about 20 minutes of Q/A, I was impressed with this person of extreme ability. (Never met you, Dan; sorry.)

I love Frey users; I really do. CES got me in the door; SageTV encouraged me to buy a dedicated computer; but it is the hard-core user-base that has kept me most loyal and Frey's biggest asset. Ranging from those who support the user base on the forum no matter how dumb the request, to those who build creative custom STVs, to those who build 3rd party web sites to resolve FAQs. Never have I seen such a cult following and I'm proud to be in those ranks.

Got the 'good news' out of the way. Now to my point.

I can live with slipped v2 release schedules, with the customization of Studio so close yet so far, with the MVP integration not even on the radar map, and with any technical bugs/issues/problems along the way. I can even live with Frey not sharing ANYTHING on their plans, even though I don't agree with any competitive disadvantages by doing so. With all this and more, I remain loyal now and for the forseeable future.

There's really only one thing I don't like: a closed proprietary architecture.

If SageTV is looking to appeal to the hands-on computer-savvy technical users (i.e. me), I think it has to put open-architecture at the highest of prioirities. Minor PVR features are nice, but since Narflex only has so many hours in the day, leveraging the expertise of the user base is of infinitely larger benefit.

The main premise of my argument is that I view Meedio as a much larger threat/competitor than SnapStream. If you don't already see the same thing, consider this well. The PVR functions are nice, but only a minor part of the HTPC solution. The long-term product is the convergence of ALL the pieces, not just an "important" piece. Microsoft Office crushed WordPerfect, Quattro Pro, Netscape and other industry-leaders, because of their interoperability. The world of HTPC is no different.

I see this as a critical moment in Frey's existance as I make my plans to go to Vegas in '05 for next year's show. Lots of players entering the market and expectations are higher than ever.

By designing Studio, I'm assuming I'm not pointing out anything new. Studio is an awful lot of work if your goal is just to allow me to make cute ways of watching TV. It has to be for the larger level goal. Since I don't know the scope of Studio, I beseech you to make it worthwhile when released. Meedio is exceptionally and thoroughly thought out, and would rather wait, even for a redesign, if that's what you believe it takes.

It is in this spirit that I ask Frey to do ANYTHING POSSIBLE to get the larger skilled user-base as functional as possible. I am gladdened to that multiple long-time users are developing with Studio; I am pleased to see hard work of non-paid forum users, like Opus, rewarded by letting him do even MORE work, as moderator / STV developer; I am encouraged by the smart people involved with the project as a whole, in and out of Frey.

All this being said, my entire career has been as a serial entrepreneur, starting tech companies on the hard work of 2-3 people. I'm sure you get all the benefits of 75+ hour work weeks, constant user/vendor/competitor pressure, and cash flow tightness. Truly, I can empathize, from first hand experience. While I miss those days, I might just be romanticizing things from this side of my past.

Anything you can tell us of your plans, please do. Anything that you want of your users, please ask. Anything you can share of your vision as a whole would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time and consideration. Keep up the good work!

[ToxMox]

Short reply to a long post...hope you don't mind.
As far as I know in Studio if you can code it in Java then you can code it to work in Sage. I think that is the answer you are hoping for.
Please note: I could be very wrong on this but from reading posts in the past from Jeff I'm pretty sure what I'm saying is true.

[insomniac]

I agree in the most part that frey has chosen a path that I dont necessarily agree with. The lack of information and interaction with a very loyal user base is quite concerning to me.

I must say that I have opted to stay out of sharing my opinion in a public forum, as to avoid unnecessary flame wars. But I guess you must take a stance some time...Mine is simple. I believe that Frey no longer seems to give a crap about the same people that helped put them on the map.

No, we did not develope the product, but you bet your ass that our elevated interest, willingness to provide forum support, and word of mouth is probably responsible for at least 50-75% of the subscriber base. Not to mention the obvious; our monetary contributions. Try staying in business without that.

You can create the greatest product in the world, but if you cant market or sell it. Its about as usefull as a boat anchor on a car.

My opinion and choice, as of lately is to explore other products and see if they show potential to provide the things im looking for. If I find one, thats great. If I dont, I'll just sit back and hope that their present policy makes a gradual change towards the better.

Just my opinion...I will not lose any sleep over it. Contrary to what my post might sound like, I will be enjoying watching tv with the good quality product that they have busted their ass to provide us. But man it would sure be nice to feel like the contributions that I and many others have made were appreciated every once and a while as well. I guess I just need a hug

Your mileage may vary....

I.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by insomniac
I agree in the most part that frey has chosen a path that I dont necessarily agree with. The lack of information and interaction with a very loyal user base is quite concerning to me.

The problem is the last time they shared their ideas, plan, roadmap, whatever you want to call it, they got flamed so bad when they missed their original goal that probably only Microsoft can fully understand that amount of heat.

If you can learn anything from reading this forum, it's that when Jeff is quiet, he's busy.

[insomniac]

I have not been part of that flame war, nor would I have been. Although I can say that I did comment that it sure would of been nice if Jeff showed a slight interrest to correct his previous estimates with newely expected ETA's after the deadlines came and past. I do not believe that would have been a hard thing to do, and it would have been understood and greatly appreciated.

I.

Originally posted by stanger89
The problem is the last time they shared their ideas, plan, roadmap, whatever you want to call it, they got flamed so bad when they missed their original goal that probably only Microsoft can fully understand that amount of heat.

If you can learn anything from reading this forum, it's that when Jeff is quiet, he's busy.

[lovingHDTV]

Insomniac,

I'm with you on this.

I will jump to the first viable PVR solution with full HDTV support. Looks like Microsoft may end up as the solution for me.

[heffe2001]

It won't be MCE2005, at least not what I was testing. The only thing that 2005 has that the 2004 doesn't is multiple tuners, extender support, and DVB support. HD may work, but it wasn't on the beta test at least. It has gone gold now, so testing is done, expected release in a couple months (just in time for xmas I'm betting).

The extenders will be around 299-399, from first estimates anyways. Just wish they had stuck a DVD drive on the boxes, it'd be much more functional if it had one.

More to the topic of the thread, I'd sure like to know what's going on, haven't been any releases lately, no news on Studio. Looks like they mainly just allowed the people who DO have studio to release stuff to keep everyone busy while they work on something else .

[EncoderHouse]

anyone need CHEESE with all this Wine!

[x[corwyn]]

Sounds like what the "whining" is about is just good communication. The more successful companies communicate to the point of almost boring people. I hop on now about once or twice a week now just to see if there is some sort of update from Frey or Sage or whatever they want to call the company/product. I like the product, and think that it could be a supremely good product, but thats besides the point. Communication is very poor here. Bad communication is perceived as poor customer service. I love my Sage box, I really do, but I can't help to start to look for alternatives because the issues *I* deem important for me to have, are not on the roadmap or could be but I have no idea if they are or not.

This isn't a day by day thing...a company that wants to be a blip is going to have some sort of announcement and progress report AT least monthly. The good ones have something weekly. Its been about a month since we saw "Something cool is going to come out or be done."

Honestly my enthusiasm for studio is pretty much nil. I honestly think sage is damned good, just needs a little refinement and better hardware support and would be practically ready for primetime or at least to the point where I could turn around and be able to get my less technical friends to set theirs up and have MVP boxes at home for clients.

My weekly .02 cents, take it or leave it...

[insomniac]

Swiss please, thx.

Originally posted by EncoderHouse
anyone need CHEESE with all this Wine!

[falchulk]

[i]

It is in this spirit that I ask Frey to do ANYTHING POSSIBLE to get the larger skilled user-base as functional as possible. I am gladdened to that multiple long-time users are developing with Studio; I am pleased to see hard work of non-paid forum users, like Opus, rewarded by letting him do even MORE work, as moderator / STV developer; I am encouraged by the smart people involved with the project as a whole, in and out of Frey.

[/B]

You dont know what they are doing with Studio. More people then you know might have it. They very well might be quietly increasing the skilled user-base. I think they know what they are doing. They are just trying to releas the most complete bug free product they can.

[ToonGal]

Originally posted by falchulk
You dont know what they are doing with Studio. More people then you know might have it. They very well might be quietly increasing the skilled user-base. I think they know what they are doing. They are just trying to releas the most complete bug free product they can.

If you read my post carefully, falchuk, that's the exact point I made. I even went as far as to say 'wait until fully ready' and 'redesign studio if necessary'. The main thrust of my point is that Frey should ignore the whine/cheese issues, and focus on leveraging the skilled user base that is loyal to the product, first and foremost. Any other steps at this point are small-scale, and unlikely to advance the company / product as fast.

Ironically, I'm -sure- more people than I know have it. Not as if Frey sends me e-mail personally to tell me who's on board... Hence why I was so encouraged to see STVs from unexpected sources like Nielm and Opus.

SnapStream and their ilk catching up on the Sage strongholds (multi-tuner, etc.) and Meedio staking their claim on market share of a broader scope. I think SageTV has a unique position of market leadership in their PVR component, and think they can expand outward into HTPC territory faster than Meedio can develop a competitive PVR. I just want to design components that are part of the 'final' HTPC product I will use, and happy to help SageTV dominate as much of that space as possible.

[Narflex]

ToonGal, I actually did send you a personal email about a day before you started this thread.....guess you don't check the hotmail account you sub'd to the forums with.

[kny3twalker]

ToonGal, I actually did send you a personal email about a day before you started this thread.....guess you don't check the hotmail account you sub'd to the forums with.

Sorry did not know future Whinning got you Studio

[insomniac]

stoked..wah...send, thx

Originally posted by kny3twalker
Sorry did not know future Whinning got you Studio

[kny3twalker]

yeah almost as good as fast fowarding past commercials while watching liveTV

[ErsatzTom]

future whining or, perhaps, building innovative and cool utilities and sharing them with the community.

t

[kny3twalker]

future whining or, perhaps, building innovative and cool utilities and sharing them with the community.

suppose there's a chance

[Grey_Goose]

Originally posted by ToonGal
There's really only one thing I don't like: a closed proprietary architecture.

If SageTV is looking to appeal to the hands-on computer-savvy technical users (i.e. me), I think it has to put open-architecture at the highest of prioirities.

I'd just like to see a master STV which had the capability to call smaller STV "modules" from a config file. That way people don't have to choose "this" or "that".

[JasonJoel]

Heh, I would like to think it is because her initiative....

But point well taken.

Jason

Originally posted by kny3twalker
Sorry did not know future Whinning got you Studio