Looking for HD Capture Card - Questions

[mike1961]

Hello - I currently have an HD Home Run that can record 3 stations at a time. The problem is that it can't do hardware transcoding and the basic channels that can be captured 2-3 take 7gb / hour which I think is a lot. It would be great if there were a dual or even better a quad capture from my cable tv that could transcode the HD signal.

I also have a hauppauge HD PVR that can transcode and record one show at a time and I can specify the quality. The nice thing about it is that it can record any station but it can only record one show at a time. I'm trying to find something that doesn't take so much space and ideally if possible could do dual or quad transcoding on the fly.

Any suggestions as I'm looking to upgrade my sagetv server.

Thanks,

[SHS]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Hello - I currently have an HD Home Run that can record 3 stations at a time. The problem is that it can't do hardware transcoding and the basic channels that can be captured 2-3 take 7gb / hour which I think is a lot. It would be great if there were a dual or even better a quad capture from my cable tv that could transcode the HD signal.

I also have a hauppauge HD PVR that can transcode and record one show at a time and I can specify the quality. The nice thing about it is that it can record any station but it can only record one show at a time. I'm trying to find something that doesn't take so much space and ideally if possible could do dual or quad transcoding on the fly.

Any suggestions as I'm looking to upgrade my sagetv server.

Thanks,

There are some out there like HDMI IPTV those two all are individual encoder chip and usually cost a lot and there always a TBS6304 Quad HD HDMI capture card but there no support as for I know of.

You know you can build GPU hardware transcoding but that mean give on SageTV and switch to NextPVR or Emby

In fact I just finish building a brand new server box and retired my old AMD A10-5800K Trinity 3.8GHz after 8 long years of service
My Media Server part list
Antec Performance Series P101 Silent Black/0.8 mm SPCC ATX Mid Tower Case with 8 x 3.5" HDD / 2.5" SSD Removable Bays (Why I chose this case it has 8 bay and hot swap bay are to darn expensive and I need to be more desktop style case)
Corsair CX Series CX750 CP-9020123-NA 750W ATX12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Non-Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Intel Core i3-9100 Coffee Lake 4-Core 3.6 GHz(4.2 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W BX80684I39100 Desktop Processor
MSI B360 GAMING PLUS LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel B360 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Desktop Memory Model F4-2666C15D-16GVR
Corsair Hydro Series, H60 2018 (CW-9060036-WW), 120mm Radiator, Single 120mm PWM Fan, Liquid CPU Cooler
LG Black Blu-ray Burner SATA WH16NS40
Seagate BarraCuda 510 M.2 2280 256GB PCIe G3 x4, NVMe 1.3 3D TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) ZP256CM30041 (Bootdrive)
Used LSI SAS 9211-8i 8-port 6Gb/s Internal IT-MODE and cables (I plan to update and replace drive to 8TB hard drive across the board I have reused what I got for now)
4x Seagate IronWolf ST8000VN004 8TB 7200 RPM 256MB Cache SATA (With plans to add 4 more over course of this year)
USB 2.0 4 Ports PCI Slot Bracket
Add in expandable storage pool software Drive Bender
Re-used Hauppauge WinTV quad-HD
Re-used other Hauppauge device
Re-used Hauppauge USB HD-PVR 2 and PCIe Colossus 2
Re-used 128GB SSD for Caching Transcoding temporary path

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Hello - I currently have an HD Home Run that can record 3 stations at a time. The problem is that it can't do hardware transcoding and the basic channels that can be captured 2-3 take 7gb / hour which I think is a lot. It would be great if there were a dual or even better a quad capture from my cable tv that could transcode the HD signal.

Are you concerned about the storage size or some other issue? Like you are streaming to another location and you have limited bandwidth and need to shrink the bitrate for the video streams?

If it's just the storage issue, maybe think about it from a cost perspective...

Buying new tuning devices to do this (if they even exist) is going to cost some amount of money. Maybe $75 for a new tuner? Maybe $125? Each?

Or for $150 you can buy an 8TB external USB drive which will store 1142 of those 7GB shows.

--John

[wayner]

I have a system with two HD-PVRs. Why not add more HD-PVRs? In some ways OTA is still the way to go as it is simpler as there is no external box required, but there is limited content on OTA.

Or use streaming services to supplement what you don't record.

Who cares about 7GB/hour when hard drives are so cheap? You can set up processes to automatically transcode but it is hardly worth the effort when you can buy drives for under $20/TB. The main reason that you may want to do that is to transcode files from MPEG-2 to H.264 so that they can play more easily on mobile devices.

[mike1961]

The issue is not so much storage as efficiency on two levels. First, as someone pointed out there is a bandwidth issue. I was thinking about replacing my HD HomeRun Prime (3 tuners) with an HD quad tuner from Hauppauge. I'm thinking that would then relieve the bandwidth on the LAN when recording many HD channels at once.

The second issue is space efficiency. There are just so many boxes and plugs. I have an HD PVR but for every one of those you need another cable box. Of course as someone else mentioned the problem with OTA is the limited selection. So, at present, I figure with two cable boxes for all the channels and then the HD Home Run for the 2-13 that usually works. I'm just trying to make things more efficient.

Last - is anyone aware of the HD HomeRun with cable and "copy once" and "copy freely" ? I have a cable card in the HD HomeRun and still get a NO COPY when I try to copy just about any channel above 13. But, it's hard to know which ones are copy freely and which ones are not. Why doesn't it work with all the channels with a cable card in the HD HomeRun?

Thanks

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Last - is anyone aware of the HD HomeRun with cable and "copy once" and "copy freely" ? I have a cable card in the HD HomeRun and still get a NO COPY when I try to copy just about any channel above 13. But, it's hard to know which ones are copy freely and which ones are not. Why doesn't it work with all the channels with a cable card in the HD HomeRun?

Go to my.hdhomerun.com. You should see your Prime listed. Mine shows 195 Channels, yours will likely show a different number. In any event, click on that link. It should display a channel lineup, and on the right-hand side it will display DRM for any channels that are copy-protected.

[mike1961]

Why would my.hdhomerun.com show me which cable channels are copy freely from Time Warner / Spectrum? Wouldn't I go to spectrum somewhere?

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by mike1961

The issue is not so much storage as efficiency on two levels. First, as someone pointed out there is a bandwidth issue. I was thinking about replacing my HD HomeRun Prime (3 tuners) with an HD quad tuner from Hauppauge. I'm thinking that would then relieve the bandwidth on the LAN when recording many HD channels at once.

What kind of switch do you have? I have a gigabit switch and can record from 3x HDHR Prime AND 4x HDHR Quatro all at the same time without noticeable issues.

Originally Posted by mike1961

The second issue is space efficiency. There are just so many boxes and plugs. I have an HD PVR but for every one of those you need another cable box. Of course as someone else mentioned the problem with OTA is the limited selection. So, at present, I figure with two cable boxes for all the channels and then the HD Home Run for the 2-13 that usually works. I'm just trying to make things more efficient.

I can totally understand this. I have four shelves with stuff related to Sage - Sage box itself, HDPVR2s, HDHR Prime, HDHR Quatro, a bunch of hard drives, and related cables, power supplies, and adapters!

Originally Posted by mike1961

Last - is anyone aware of the HD HomeRun with cable and "copy once" and "copy freely" ? I have a cable card in the HD HomeRun and still get a NO COPY when I try to copy just about any channel above 13. But, it's hard to know which ones are copy freely and which ones are not. Why doesn't it work with all the channels with a cable card in the HD HomeRun?

Depends on your provider. We have Verizon FiOS and with the Primes all channels are marked copy freely except some of the "pay" channels (HBO, etc) and the non-broadcast Fox channels. When you do channel list from the web interface you should be able to see whether it's usable or not. If it says "DRM" next to the channel it's not copy freely. (see attached screenshot).

--John

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Why would my.hdhomerun.com show me which cable channels are copy freely from Time Warner / Spectrum? Wouldn't I go to spectrum somewhere?

It detects what HDHR devices are on your local network and then provides links to the web interfaces to your local devices and it shows how your local Prime sees the channels enabled by the CableCard you have installed.

--John

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by jpwegas

Depends on your provider. We have Verizon FiOS and with the Primes all channels are marked copy freely except some of the "pay" channels (HBO, etc) and the non-broadcast Fox channels. When you do channel list from the web interface you should be able to see whether it's usable or not. If it says "DRM" next to the channel it's not copy freely. (see attached screenshot).

--John

How do I access the web interface?

[mike1961]

Got it - I figured out how to access the web interface. Seems like Time Warner marks a bunch as DRM. I got it now.

Question - this HD Home Run Prime 6 they might release at some point said something about being able to copy freely all channels with a cable card. Is it any different than the Prime I have now besides being able to record more stations at one time?

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Got it - I figured out how to access the web interface. Seems like Time Warner marks a bunch as DRM. I got it now.

Question - this HD Home Run Prime 6 they might release at some point said something about being able to copy freely all channels with a cable card. Is it any different than the Prime I have now besides being able to record more stations at one time?

I've only heard that it will be six tuners and a Quatro size form factor.

--John

[SHS]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Got it - I figured out how to access the web interface. Seems like Time Warner marks a bunch as DRM. I got it now.

Question - this HD Home Run Prime 6 they might release at some point said something about being able to copy freely all channels with a cable card. Is it any different than the Prime I have now besides being able to record more stations at one time?

I wouldn't count on it Mike1961

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by SHS

I wouldn't count on it Mike1961

I hear that - maybe they'll release it "in the year 2525..." (I know that is a song from somewhere - )

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Question - this HD Home Run Prime 6 they might release at some point said something about being able to copy freely all channels with a cable card. Is it any different than the Prime I have now besides being able to record more stations at one time?

SiliconDust's original plan was to release an upgrade to the SiliconDust DVR software that would allow recording and viewing of DRM channels. For those of us using SageTV software, we would still only be able to record non-DRM channels, up to six at a time with a single device/cablecard.

[mike1961]

Two more quick questions:

1. Am I correct that if I did switch to the Hauppauge Quad HD tuner then I would probably lose a lot of "copy freely" channels available with my HD Homerun Prime because my prime has a cable card and the Hauppauge Quad tuner I would just be directly plugging in the cable (so I might only get channels 2-13 if that)?

2. I think time warner may have changes some stations because when I do a scan on the HD Homerun the SD channels are gone. Sometimes there was a log of pixelation and and I"m not sure if that was something with the HD Homerun or just the SD channels (but sometimes the sd channels were fine). Not sure if anyone else experience pixelation issues sometimes on the HD HomeRun.

Thank you.

[JustFred]

Without knowing exactly which city you're in, it's pretty hard to give a useful answer. Cable systems in different cities aren't necessarily configured the same. Best way to find out: temporarily connect your TV's RF input to the coax, and have it do a channel scan.

[wayner]

But just to be clear - best case scenario is that Mike gets a number of channels with unencrypted QAM that are encoded with MPEG-2. Those are likely to be the same channels that are available via OTA. And there may be fewer channels available that way than there are over OTA. And the file size will unlikley be any different.

So it is not clear that you are gaining anything, other than being able to capture a fourth stream simultaneously. And if you are getting rid of the HD-PVR then you lose the capability to record "protected" cable channels.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Two more quick questions:

1. Am I correct that if I did switch to the Hauppauge Quad HD tuner then I would probably lose a lot of "copy freely" channels available with my HD Homerun Prime because my prime has a cable card and the Hauppauge Quad tuner I would just be directly plugging in the cable (so I might only get channels 2-13 if that)?

2. I think time warner may have changes some stations because when I do a scan on the HD Homerun the SD channels are gone. Sometimes there was a log of pixelation and and I"m not sure if that was something with the HD Homerun or just the SD channels (but sometimes the sd channels were fine). Not sure if anyone else experience pixelation issues sometimes on the HD HomeRun.

Thank you.

My guess is that you would not be able to record any channels with the quad BD tuner. Those tuners work with over the air (ATSC) channels and with clearQAM cable channels. Most cable companies stopped using clearQAM a few years ago. If you can hook up a tv directly to your coax cable (with NO cable box) and you are able to tune some channels, then those are probably clearQAM and you could probably record them with the QuadHD tuner.

As for the cable card HDHR Prime tuners, in theory there should be no difference between the 3 tuner and 6 tuner version except the number of tuners. However, they stopped making the 3 tuner version and they never actually released the 6 tuner version, so hard to know for sure.

The Primes should be able to record Copy Once channels, but by law they have to make sure that the files are encrypted and DRM is enforced when recording those channels. Sage is not capable of recording or playing back encrypted /DRM protected content. SiliconDust’s DVR software was supposed to support this a few years ago, but I don’t know if they ever did.

It’s up to your individual cable provider which channels and which shows are set copy freely or copy once or copy never. Comcast, Verizon, and I think Charter have been very good about setting the copy flags to copy freely on almost everything except premium channels (like HBO and pay per view). Time Warner on the other hand is notorious for setting everything to copy once (except for the local channels). So, the cable card tuners are of limited value to TWC customers.

From what I’ve read Most TWC and Charter customers became Spectrum, but it seems that Spectrum left the old policies in place. So if you are in an area that used to be TWC, most channels are copy once, but if you are in an area that used to be Charter, most channels are copy freely.

[mike1961]

It sounds like I should just keep my HD HomeRun and my HD PVR. What has been really helpful is the web site to list which ones are DRM and which ones are not so there are quite a few above channel 13 that are not DRM so there are a lot more channels which is nice.

It would be nice to not have so many plugs. At present, I have two cable boxes along with the HD HomeRun and a Fast Tuning Switch and two Hauppauge capture devices. Just a lot of stuff.

Maybe one day we can all just plug one cable into a computer with no boxes and get it all. That would be ideal.