No Signal and No Client Access

[RonBoyd]

I am really frustrated. I went for several months after updating from v7 to v9 (old machine to new machine) with no problems. Then it started this way: (I use HDHomeRun tuners.)

1. Every Sunday Evening it would skip some, but not all, recordings because a "Channel wasn't available."

2. Then it became every recording on Sunday evening.

3. I assumed it was an antenna problem or some electronic interference. I spent many hours troubleshooting the antenna system. And then it started on random other nights... but always on Sunday.

4. Then the client would give me a "No Signal" message when starting a show from the Program Guide. This would fix by changing channels up and then back down.

5. Now when I start the HD300, I get the message "The Server 'HTPC-WINDOWS10' is configured for automatic connection but is currently not available." (I have tried all of the solutions found at https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61429 with no joy.)

6. Now SageTV on the Server is giving me the "No Signal" message on every channel -- from all areas including the "Setup Video Sources" menu.

I have access to the HDHR tuners by all other devices -- HDHomeRun, Plex, ROKU, Shield, etc -- and directly with the Server machine.

I am at my wit's end trying to figure this out. I have even uninstalled and reinstalled SageTV and SageTV Client software. TBH, I am unsure if I did that correctly. And during the Client install, I get these two messages -- even when running the setup program as administrator:

"Could not write value AlwaysSwapForAC3Filter to key \software\frey technologies\common\DSFilters\AudioDec. Verify that you have sufficient access to that key, or contact your support personnel. Abort-Retry-Ignore"

"Could not write value EnableSageTVStreamDemux to key \software\frey technologies\common\Direct Show. Verify that you have sufficient access to that key, or contact your support personnel. Abort-Retry-Ignore"

Both of those items are found in the Registry and the Value in both is set to 0 (Zero).

Any suggestions on what to try next?

UPDATE: I had forgotten about the Shield (Android) SageTV app. When I tried that I get this message: "Unable To Connect - failed to connect to /192.168.1.115 (Port 31099) from /192.168.1.135 (Port 36614) after 30000ms." (I don't know what that means.) 115 is the SageTV Server's IP Address and 135 belongs to the nVidia Shield.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

I am really frustrated. I went for several months after updating from v7 to v9 (old machine to new machine) with no problems. Then it started this way: (I use HDHomeRun tuners.)

1. Every Sunday Evening it would skip some, but not all, recordings because a "Channel wasn't available."

2. Then it became every recording on Sunday evening.

3. I assumed it was an antenna problem or some electronic interference. I spent many hours troubleshooting the antenna system. And then it started on random other nights... but always on Sunday.

4. Then the client would give me a "No Signal" message when starting a show from the Program Guide. This would fix by changing channels up and then back down.

5. Now when I start the HD300, I get the message "The Server 'HTPC-WINDOWS10' is configured for automatic connection but is currently not available." (I have tried all of the solutions found at https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61429 with no joy.)

6. Now SageTV on the Server is giving me the "No Signal" message on every channel -- from all areas including the "Setup Video Sources" menu.

I have access to the HDHR tuners by all other devices -- HDHomeRun, Plex, ROKU, Shield, etc -- and directly with the Server machine.

I am at my wit's end trying to figure this out. I have even uninstalled and reinstalled SageTV and SageTV Client software. TBH, I am unsure if I did that correctly. And during the Client install, I get these two messages -- even when running the setup program as administrator:

"Could not write value AlwaysSwapForAC3Filter to key \software\frey technologies\common\DSFilters\AudioDec. Verify that you have sufficient access to that key, or contact your support personnel. Abort-Retry-Ignore"

"Could not write value EnableSageTVStreamDemux to key \software\frey technologies\common\Direct Show. Verify that you have sufficient access to that key, or contact your support personnel. Abort-Retry-Ignore"

Both of those items are found in the Registry and the Value in both is set to 0 (Zero).

Any suggestions on what to try next?

UPDATE: I had forgotten about the Shield (Android) SageTV app. When I tried that I get this message: "Unable To Connect - failed to connect to /192.168.1.115 (Port 31099) from /192.168.1.135 (Port 36614) after 30000ms." (I don't know what that means.) 115 is the SageTV Server's IP Address and 135 belongs to the nVidia Shield.

First- I would not worry about those installer errors.

Based on your symptoms, my first guess would be networking problems. Look for a flaky Ethernet switch (or the wall wart that powers it), bad or loose cable, problem Ethernet hardware in your server PC, etc.

[MattHelm]

You may also look for a program using the same port as SageTV.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by Tiki

First- I would not worry about those installer errors.

Thank you. I feel better all ready.

Originally Posted by Tiki

Based on your symptoms, my first guess would be networking problems. Look for a flaky Ethernet switch (or the wall wart that powers it), bad or loose cable, problem Ethernet hardware in your server PC, etc.

I have considered that but... I have no other "lack of Internet" with any other program on the Server machine. I can get to anywhere with IE, Edge and Chrome. I can stream video from Netflix, Hulu, DirecTV NOW, and Prime on that machine. I can access every installed App with the TV, ROKU, and Shield. I cannot, however, access the SageTV Client with either HD300 or Shield.

I will admit that I have a fairly complicated setup. The 10 HDHomeRun tuners are connected to the LAN. The Server is connected to the LAN. The HD300 is connected to the LAN and to/from a Yamaha RX A3080 AVR.

I am unsure where I should look for a disruption that would affect only SageTV. (I have swapped cables and switch inlet port with the ROKU unit with no change.) Any suggestions?

And to the other issue: I can access the Tuners with a variety of programs on the Server machine.

Originally Posted by MattHelm

You may also look for a program using the same port as SageTV.

The only thing using the two Ports are SageTVService.EXE. (See attached)

SageTV Ports.PNG

[Tiki]

Your network may be OK, but just because many things appear to work does not rule out a network problem. Most things that rely on your network are very robust - for example, simple web browsing often works fine even if the network is dropping packets like crazy. But other things like video are much more finicky and may fail when other services seem to work. If you read these forums regularly, you will see lots of posts from people with strange problems that turned out to be network-related (even though their network seemed to be otherwise OK).

Again, the network may not be hour issue, I just wouldn’t rule it out too quickly.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Again, the network may not be hour issue, I just wouldn’t rule it out too quickly.

Oh! I am definitely not ruling that out. That has always been my number one suspect. What I am saying is I have exhausted my knowledge pool as far as network troubleshooting goes. I am looking for that which I am missing. I am stuck and don't know how to go forward.

FWIW, I have never had cable/satellite and have used SageTV for local programs (I have 83 channels available) and streaming for all other. I am not unhappy with the Tablo Quad and it is, actually, preventing me from much anxiety. As it stands, I could easily switch to the Tablo as my number one but I would miss SageTV.

[RonBoyd]

Another update.

When, on the Server, I go to Setup>Setup Video Source>Channel Setup>Preview This Channel, the light flashes on the Tuner and the Signal Strength varies between 96% and 98%. Eventually, it times out and the flashing light goes out and "No Signal" message is shown.

I have cycled through all of the HDHomeRun Setup BDA choices with no change in status. (Again, SageTV is no longer an option.)

So, it would appear that SageTV (my instance) can send a signal to the tuner but cannot process the return signal. Am I truly the only one this is happening to?

FWIW, I can play back all of the SageTV recordings without issue. (On the Server, I still have no Client access.)

[JustFred]

Edit: The following was being composed as you posted the results of trying to Preview a single tuner, so my comments about running out of network bandwidth may not apply.
---------

Sounds like a network-related problem. Some possibilities:

1. Did your Win10 box get any updates at about the same time the problem started? Specifically, check the drivers for the network interface. It's easy to roll back the NIC driver to a previous version.

2. Antivirus/firewall issues. Try temporarily disabling the AV software during the period of the expected failure(s).

3. The frequency and time of failure may be significant. Are there any interesting entries in the Windows Event Log at that time? What else is taking place during the days/hours of failure? Large data transfer between computers/NAS? Backup operations? A bunch of Win10 boxes doing Windows Updates? Multiple cellphones streaming video? Others?

4. Is the Win10 box running any other network-traffic-intensive applications? Example: Video surveillance (such as Blue Iris) with large numbers of Hi-def cameras requires alot of CPU and network bandwidth when motion occurs.

5. Power-cycling the network equipment involved may (temporarily) solve the problem. I have a couple of Trendnet 24-port 10/100/1000 ethernet switches that occasionally fail to pass **some** network traffic between certain devices, requiring a power-cycle.

6. Review your entire network; draw a diagram showing how every piece of equipment on your LAN interconnects. Pay particular attention to any wifi-connected devices, wifi extenders, powerline extenders, old-school 10/100 switches, and the connection(s) to your router.

6a. If there are multiple network switches involved, pay particular attention to how THEY interconnect. Using multiple LAN ports on the router as a means to interconnect multiple gigabit switches is almost certain to be a source of trouble. Most consumer-grade routers aren't able to transfer traffic at full line-rate **between** LAN ports (unlike a standalone Switch, they often use the router's CPU to forward traffic).

6b. With your large quantity of HDHR tuners, the presence of a 10/100 switch in the path between them and your Win10 box is going to create a bottleneck that may choke when a bunch of tuners are producing data at the same time.

6c. Some powerline and WiFi extenders are notorious for going crazy and flooding the wired LAN with garbage traffic in the presence of noise. Temporarily try unplugging all such devices if possible.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by JustFred

Edit: The following was being composed as you posted the results of trying to Preview a single tuner, so my comments about running out of network bandwidth may not apply.

Thanks for taking the time to put all of this down for me. It will take some time for me to work through it all... probably into next week.

However, I have some immediate responses:

1. Did your Win10 box get any updates at about the same time the problem started? Specifically, check the drivers for the network interface. It's easy to roll back the NIC driver to a previous version.

Yes, but this was a gradual thing. For instance, I upgraded to Windows 10 v1903 and then discovered the Client failure. See in this thread - https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66029. I restored the machine to pre-upgrade and the Client worked as expected. However, in less than a week the Client connect problem reappeared. So I decided that the Windows upgrade was not the problem and reinstalled the upgrade. The other major change was the HDHomeRun firmware update but that wouldn't affect the Client disconnect. There were no other changes anywhere else on the network devices.

The no signal thing was also gradual -- see my OP.

2. Antivirus/firewall issues. Try temporarily disabling the AV software during the period of the expected failure(s).

This was one of the first things done -- see above Link.

3. The frequency and time of failure may be significant. Are there any interesting entries in the Windows Event Log at that time? What else is taking place during the days/hours of failure? Large data transfer between computers/NAS? Backup operations? A bunch of Win10 boxes doing Windows Updates? Multiple cellphones streaming video? Others?

This has been going on for a month so this will take some time to research... if it's even possible.

4. Is the Win10 box running any other network-traffic-intensive applications? Example: Video surveillance (such as Blue Iris) with large numbers of Hi-def cameras requires alot of CPU and network bandwidth when motion occurs.

No

5. Power-cycling the network equipment involved may (temporarily) solve the problem. I have a couple of Trendnet 24-port 10/100/1000 ethernet switches that occasionally fail to pass **some** network traffic between certain devices, requiring a power-cycle.

I just tried that (including rebooting the Router and the modem) -- no joy.

6. Review your entire network; draw a diagram showing how every piece of equipment on your LAN interconnects. Pay particular attention to any wifi-connected devices, wifi extenders, powerline extenders, old-school 10/100 switches, and the connection(s) to your router.

Again, will take some time.

6a. If there are multiple network switches involved, pay particular attention to how THEY interconnect. Using multiple LAN ports on the router as a means to interconnect multiple gigabit switches is almost certain to be a source of trouble. Most consumer-grade routers aren't able to transfer traffic at full line-rate **between** LAN ports (unlike a standalone Switch, they often use the router's CPU to forward traffic).

I have ordered all new Cat 7 cables... they will be here next week. Will do this at that time.

6b. With your large quantity of HDHR tuners, the presence of a 10/100 switch in the path between them and your Win10 box is going to create a bottleneck that may choke when a bunch of tuners are producing data at the same time.

I have disconnected all but a single "Connect" device -- 2 tuners. It didn't make a difference.

6c. Some powerline and WiFi extenders are notorious for going crazy and flooding the wired LAN with garbage traffic in the presence of noise. Temporarily try unplugging all such devices if possible.

Interesting. I will have to find a time to do that. There are over 40 devices connected to the LAN... it may take me awhile to figure out how to disconnect some of them -- Nest, for instance.

[JustFred]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

There are over 40 devices connected to the LAN... it may take me awhile to figure out how to disconnect some of them -- Nest, for instance.

A brute-force method to disconnect ALL WiFi devices from your LAN: temporarily reconfigure the WiFi access point (I'm guessing it's in your router/gateway) to disable the radio. If that option doesn't exist, change the SSID.

[JustFred]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

On the Server, I still have no Client access.

Please clarify... are the SageTv Client and SageTv Server (service) running on the same machine, and can't connect? Such a configuration should work even when the network cable is disconnected, isolating Sage from the rest of your LAN.

Try installing Placeshifter on the box running the SageTv server. Can Placeshifter connect?

A failure to "connect" between client and server (within the same box) sounds like a Windows Firewall issue.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by JustFred

Please clarify... are the SageTv Client and SageTv Server (service) running on the same machine, and can't connect? Such a configuration should work even when the network cable is disconnected, isolating Sage from the rest of your LAN.

Try installing Placeshifter on the box running the SageTv server. Can Placeshifter connect?

A failure to "connect" between client and server (within the same box) sounds like a Windows Firewall issue.

Yes, the Server (service) and the Client are installed on the same machine -- HTPC-Windows10 (192.168.1.115).

I installed Placeshifter (v9.2.1). (I had it installed on the earlier v7 but unsure if I had installed it with v9, doubtful).

In any event, it didn't change the situation any. I can access it but get the same "no signal" message. By "access it," I mean on the Server machine.) I am unsure how to open on another machine. (FWIW, I have access to two different networks from this location.)

[JustFred]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

Yes, the Server (service) and the Client are installed on the same machine -- HTPC-Windows10 (192.168.1.115).

I installed Placeshifter (v9.2.1). (I had it installed on the earlier v7 but unsure if I had installed it with v9, doubtful).

In any event, it didn't change the situation any. I can access it but get the same "no signal" message. By "access it," I mean on the Server machine.) I am unsure how to open on another machine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that:
1. The HD300 can't connect to the SageTv Server service running on HTPC-Win10 box.
2. The SageTv Server service on HTPC has problems connecting to the HDHRs ("No Signal" msg)
3. Placeshifter and SageTv Client are both able to connect to the SageTv Server service (all 3 running on the same HTPC-Win10).

(FWIW, I have access to two different networks from this location.)

Explain this a bit more... Do you mean that HTPC-Win10 has two physical network interfaces? Are they connected to two separate subnets? Is the HTPC and the HDHR tuners connected to the same subnet?

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by JustFred

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that:
1. The HD300 can't connect to the SageTv Server service running on HTPC-Win10 box.
2. The SageTv Server service on HTPC has problems connecting to the HDHRs ("No Signal" msg)
3. Placeshifter and SageTv Client are both able to connect to the SageTv Server service (all 3 running on the same HTPC-Win10).

1. Yes.

2. The Server can (apparently) connect to the HDHR Tuners but cannot receive a signal. (How I explained it earlier - "When, on the Server, I go to Setup>Setup Video Source>Channel Setup>Preview This Channel, the light flashes on the Tuner and the Signal Strength varies between 96% and 98%. Eventually, it times out and the flashing light goes out and "No Signal" message is shown.")

3. Placeshifter connects to the Server but the Client (HD300) does not.

Originally Posted by JustFred

Explain this a bit more... Do you mean that HTPC-Win10 has two physical network interfaces? Are they connected to two separate subnets? Is the HTPC and the HDHR tuners connected to the same subnet?

Yes, they are connected to the same Network. What I mean is I have another router that can also access the Internet. I can switch to that Network with Wi-Fi. I use this quite often to troubleshoot and to confirm that, for instance, "remote access" is set up properly. Just throwing that out there. The wired Access is through CenturyLink and the Wi-Fi is with AT&T. I am unsure how to connect the HD300 to that network but it should be possible.

[JustFred]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

What I mean is I have another router that can also access the Internet. I can switch to that Network with Wi-Fi. I use this quite often to troubleshoot and to confirm that, for instance, "remote access" is set up properly. Just throwing that out there.

Windows has had a long history of "interesting" issues when multiple network interfaces exist on the same PC. In your case, I suggest temporarily **completely** disable the WiFi interface on HTPC. As in, remove the driver for the WiFi interface. Then see if Sage can access the HDHRs from Setup.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by JustFred

Windows has had a long history of "interesting" issues when multiple network interfaces exist on the same PC. In your case, I suggest temporarily **completely** disable the WiFi interface on HTPC. As in, remove the driver for the WiFi interface. Then see if Sage can access the HDHRs from Setup.

Okay, I am explaining this poorly. The "other" network/router that I have available is a cellular AT&T "Hotspot." We have an RV and spend considerable time "on-the-road" and use it for Internet use when away from Denver. It is normally shut off but I do use it when I need to troubleshoot things with the CenturyLink connection -- like to find out if a "no Internet" state is on my end or CL's. Anyway, even if it was turned on, to open a wireless connection one has to change the setting in Windows and then there would be a list of every available network Wi-fi network -- currently 14 of them (my neighbors). The Server fits none of this -- it is wired and Wi-fi is not available -- well, not activated. (Again, I am not ruling out a Network issue but simply relaying my understanding.)

I can "Ping" the HD300 from the Server. (See attached screenshots)

I find that in SageTV "Setup" a Channel scan finds 0 (none) channels. The Setup routine does find the tuners but again all it does during the search is make the Tuner light flash during the (quite lengthy) scan. On the other hand, running "scan" in the HDHomeRun Setup application, on the same machine, finds 77 channels.

I don't know how to access 192.168.1.125 from the desktop to see what's going on.

Fing-1.JPG

Fing-2.JPG

Ping.PNG

[sic0048]

Personally I don't think all of your issues can be explained with just a network issue because you say that other programs can view the tuners without any issues.

What software are you using in order for SageTV to see the tuners? SageDTC or OpenDTC?

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by sic0048

What software are you using in order for SageTV to see the tuners? SageDTC or OpenDTC?

I don't know. How do I determine which (or what)?

I don't know if this is relevant but, in my attempt to answer the above question, I looked at the installed Plugins. I don't remember installing any except the Sidebar one.These are them:

Batch Metadata Tools - Web Interface
Commercial Detector
Gemstone y Optional Weather Backgrounds
Gemstone y API
Jetty Web Server
Log View
Phoenix Core Services
Phoenix Restful Apis
SageTV Groovy Tools
SageTV Web Interface
Sagex - Services - SageTV Remote API Services
Web Feed Encoder (WFE)
Windows Sidebar/Desktop Gadget Support

[UgaData]

I believe the OP has OTA HDHomeRuns and doesn't need SageDCT or OpenDCT.

Are you running SageTV x64?

Do you have the latest firmware on the HDHR devices?

What version of Java are you running (7 or 8)? 7 should be fine, 8 would be more secure. Anything versions greater will probably be problematic.

I believe the HDHR will still recognize SageTV, if Sage is installed before the SD software/driver and if it is 32 bit SageTV. SageTV x64 is not recognized by the SiliconDust software.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by UgaData

I believe the OP has OTA HDHomeRuns and doesn't need SageDCT or OpenDCT.

Are you running SageTV x64?

Do you have the latest firmware on the HDHR devices?

What version of Java are you running (7 or 8)? 7 should be fine, 8 would be more secure. Anything versions greater will probably be problematic.

I believe the HDHR will still recognize SageTV, if Sage is installed before the SD software/driver and if it is 32 bit SageTV. SageTV x64 is not recognized by the SiliconDust software.

Yes, that is correct. I am Over the Air antenna only.

I have Java v8 Update 221 (build 1.8.0.221-b11)

Yes, I have the latest HDHR firmware installed. That is why I questioned SiliconDust if their removing the SageTV option from the "BDA Compatibility Mode" List with this update is causing my issue. I am still waiting for a response... it has only been a week <grrrr>.

I am talking about SageTV x64. I did install both SageTV versions originally (but cannot locate a SageTV.exe 32bit version). In any event, nothing was changed in that respect to create this issue. In fact, I am convinced the only change was the HDHR firmware upgrade but that is only a (not very good) guess. (And would not account for the failure of the Client to connect.)

FWIW, the Schedules Direct is keeping the EPG up-to-date... that last update was at 6:00am this morning. In fact, the scheduled programs are attempting to record but eventually fail because of "No Signal."

I, also, can play all of the recorded videos (on the Server only, of course).