What if things had turned out differently for SageTV...

[wayner]

In some ways this is a futile exercise, but here goes anyhow...

If SageTV were still an independent company and were not purchased by Google I think we would have the following by 2014:

• Full native mobile clients for iOS and Android.
• A proper Netflix plugin and perhaps plugins for other online services like Hulu and Amazon Live.
• Sage would be a native 64 bit app able to use more memory and a larger JVM so you can use more clients simultaneously.
• Better Placeshifting for 1080i content.
• (Maybe)The capability to Chromecast SageTV from a iOS/Android device as you can with Plex and YouTube.

And probably a lot more. SIGH!

[Skybolt]

You left out CableCard support as well ...

Actually I don't think NetFlix and Cable Card would ever had made it, Sage just wasn't big enough for either. But a nice way to keep the illusion alive though.

[wayner]

Yes, I was thinking of that but CableCard seems to require even larger resources to support, at least larger than Netflix. And Netflix seems to be on pretty much every device in the world now so I think getting it onto Sage would have happened eventually.

[stanger89]

I hate to say it, but I'm not sure we'd have anything more than we have now, possibly less. We're a pretty small market, and all the other commercial PC DVR makers have disappeared. Snapstream abandoned BeyondTV, Microsoft has all but abandoned WMC. There are really two likely outcomes, on the one hand Sage may thrived picking up users fleeing other alternatives.

But I think more likely is that Sage would have faded away into obscurity probably dying in the process. In which case we would be without the forums (no one to pay for the hosting) and without guide data.

I would not be surprised (I wouldn't go so far as to say it's likely or anything) if Jeff actually saw the writing all the wall and "saving" SageTV played a role in selling to Google.

I mean it's great and somewhat romantic to think that were it not for Google we would have gotten everything we wanted from SageTV, but honestly I just don't see a future in the PC DVR business. With commercial DVRs getting better, it getting harder and harder to build an effective DVR without CableCard, and more people cutting the cord, the odds are just stacked against anyone trying to make one.

[tvmaster2]

sadly, stranger89 has a point. I can count on one finger of one hand the people I personally know who would want to invest their time and energy into maintaining a SageTV server just to record sitcoms and 'Dancing With The Washed-Up'
Even my wife fiddles with Sage for a second, then either hands me the remote or grabs for the TiVo.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stanger89

With commercial DVRs getting better, it getting harder and harder to build an effective DVR without CableCard, and more people cutting the cord, the odds are just stacked against anyone trying to make one.

You make a lot of good points but this sentence is somewhat contradictory as CableCard is less important if there are lots of cord cutters.

This market is likely very limited but I am surprised that no one has made inroads into a product that combines the trend of cord cutting and online streaming by making a good OTA DVR with Netflix, Hulu, etc. that's easy to use. I guess there is TiVo but they don't seem to be gaining traction. Such a product would be great for people that aren't into live sports as they should be able to get everything else that they need.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by wayner

You make a lot of good points but this sentence is somewhat contradictory as CableCard is less important if there are lots of cord cutters.

True, but to the people who aren't cutting the cord, Cablecard is quite important. I mean it's important to me, but I'm lucky in that my provider flags everything copy freely (and all the HD channels are clear QAM to begin with), just look at all the people who fled Sage for WMC.

This market is likely very limited but I am surprised that no one has made inroads into a product that combines the trend of cord cutting and online streaming by making a good OTA DVR with Netflix, Hulu, etc. that's easy to use.

Problem is all the content providers want to control their chunk themselves and not cooperate with anyone else. Look at Hulu, you have to subscribe to Plus and use approved devices but even then you can't watch everything on Hulu via Plus.

[wayner]

Here in Canada the cable infrastructure is the same as in the US, with the same STBs, except the cable companies will not give you a CableCard and they aren't required to by the regulators so I don't think as much about CableCard. I kind of like the fact that there are far fewer restrictions when you use an HD-PVR (or Colossus) and don't have to worry about DRM flags changing. But I realize that I am in a very small minority on this and that having the cable boxes in the chain adds to the potential points of failure.

[panteragstk]

I would be happy with continued development. Nothing much more than that. Native netflix, hulu, amazon prime would be nice, but I have alternatives for that.

My features requests would have been refresh rate switching, ability to use external splitters without breaking certain aspects, other client related stuff.

Extenders are nice, but can't do what my clients can. There are some rooms they would have been nice to have, but I've remedied that situation.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

... but to the people who aren't cutting the cord, Cablecard is quite important. ..., just look at all the people who fled Sage for WMC.

Your previous post that led to this response is all too true (sadly), as well as the above. With the addition of CC, there is absolutly no reason to have a Cable box, except for on-demand and PPV, all of which are a complete waste of money in my opinion. But mainstream tv watchers think that stuff is great and see no need to change, especially if you add in something like a Roku (streamer).

CC has affected my cable company to the point of they require you to have at least one cable box no matter if it's connected or not. I don't know how they get away with it, but they do, and that's an extra 9.95 per month.

[bclenney]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

sadly, stranger89 has a point. I can count on one finger of one hand the people I personally know who would want to invest their time and energy into maintaining a SageTV server just to record sitcoms and 'Dancing With The Washed-Up'
Even my wife fiddles with Sage for a second, then either hands me the remote or grabs for the TiVo.

Sadly I can count the number of people I personally know who would want to invest their time and energy into maintaining a SageTV server on 1 finger - me.

Some of my friends and family think it is cool that my DVR has so much flexibility, but none are interested in doing the work.

[will]

Originally Posted by bclenney

Sadly I can count the number of people I personally know who would want to invest their time and energy into maintaining a SageTV server on 1 finger - me.

Some of my friends and family think it is cool that my DVR has so much flexibility, but none are interested in doing the work.

I agree. I often get asked what powers my TV system, espcially when I'm in the kitchen and I seamlessly switch between a web browser/iTunes and a SageTV client with endless amounts of video that play instantly... But I don't think anyone wants to deal with all the management aspects that come along with it. I think people who use Sage are special because we enjoy building servers, tweaking things, making sure everything works, etc. I assume that most of us probably work in some type of technical field so Sage is our hobby.

[Taddeusz]

Due to the management aspect there have been several times when I've considered dropping SageTV completely and going with our cable company's DVR. It ends up coming down to money. Even the money required to occasionally upgrade or repair my SageTV system and associated media extenders is far less than the monthly fees for the multi-room DVR equipment from Cox. Mainly because the cost of the bulk of the SageTV system is already a sunk cost. Currently my only wish is to have a couple more extenders for expansion.

[wayner]

Yes, but for me Sage is used more for playing back ripped movies as it is for watching TV content. Usually your cable company PVR can't help with that unless it runs something like Plex. But then you start getting into the complexity of running a NAS and other stuff which may not be that different from a Sage system.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by wayner

Yes, but for me Sage is used more for playing back ripped movies as it is for watching TV content. Usually your cable company PVR can't help with that unless it runs something like Plex. But then you start getting into the complexity of running a NAS and other stuff which may not be that different from a Sage system.

Yea, I've thought of that too but then there is the double cost of the DVR system plus any repairs or storage upgrades. We are with SageTV until the guide data is no longer available and even then there are paid stand-ins.

[wayner]

My first DVR was a hacked Series1 TiVo. I live in Canada and TiVo did not provide guide data for Canada so you had to run some routines that got the data from XMLTV, reformatted them to TiVos format, FTP them over to the TiVo and then run a routine on the TiVo to load the guide data. These routines were all in Python for Linux so if you were using Windows then you needed Cygwin as well. And the Series1 TiVo didn't have a network interface so you had to buy a semi-legit network card from 9thtee.com

Compared to that anything that we have to do to get guide data into SageTV in the future will be a piece of cake.

[tmiranda]

A lot of developers would have continued to make plugins and improvements

[wayner]

Some still did - thanks to you and several of the other folks that continued to do a lot of great work. I believe both Phoenix and Gemstone were both released after the Google acquisition.

If Sage were still around I really do think that the mobile apps would have come about - that (the post-PC world) has probably become the biggest trend in the last 2-3 years since the acquisition.

While I am in fantasy world - what would happen if Google lost interest in the SageTV side of Google Fiber and decided to release the product to the OS community. Would anyone pick it up?

[brandypuff]

What i really miss is a good mobile android app for my SageTV setup. I can browse and play recorded shows using upnp apps and that's ok but i would really like a nice UI.

I've been using Sage for many years and it's been rock solid. i'm still on version 6 since i have some PC clients that i don't have v7 licenses for. It will be a shame if my 3 extenders ever die. my wife is a heavy user of sage to record and playback tv shows and dvds.

I still lament the passing of Sage as a product but i am glad the forum and user base is still alive (but slowly dying off, i fear). BTW, who is paying for hosting the forum, anyway?

[wayner]

I agree - I would love a native iPad SageTV app with proper SkipFwd and SkipFwdx2. This is why I bought a Win8.1 tablet from Dell.

Regarding Sage6 - after the Google purchase didn't they let you upgrade to V7 for free? Therefore any V6 license will allow you to run V7.