SageTV XBMC plugin

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by LWM4P

I disagree. I think this is a great example of what a robust API should do... it doesn't mean keeping the databases synchronized, but means that the api exposes the information and the ability to manipulate that information. With that, you can have as many systems as you want controlling the stuff. Sounds like the sage api may not expose all that functionality.

I think LWMP4P is right. What's important is that the information being presented to the user in the front-end is correct. How that happens is somewhat irrelevant (from an end-user perspective). I run SageTV's back-end as a service, which means that I can't* interact with it directly. You manage your system from the front-end (client PC or extender). If all the relevant information presented to the user is held in the XBMC database, then there's no reason to update the SageTV database.

For example, if there's a recording conflict, the back-end needs to notify the user via the front-end. How that's presented to the user is up to the front-end. Now, once the user makes their decision, it's up to the front-end to notify the back-end of that choice, so that it can make the correct scheduling adjustments. The result is what's important, not how it happens. No one should be pulling up the back-end and making scheduling changes.

That brings up a potential problem for the initial setup. Assuming everything I said above is how the design is implemented, how does the front-end get the initial info from an existing SageTV setup? Would the expectation be that we set up all our tuners, lineups, and favorites from scratch via the front-end? This is where a design document comes in.

* I know I can launch the GUI, but there's almost** no reason to.
** Unless the client PC won't allow me to update a server plugin for some reason.

[IVB]

I also have 1 HD200, 1 HD300 in use, and 1 HD300 as a backup unit. But I also have a separate Bluray player. The multiple sources is a small hassle, but it is a hassle. I'd love to have an occasional gaming unit but not enough to create a 4th input source (Chromecast also in the mix).

I'd also love to have a plan C in case two HDx00's die.

I'd throw $20 into the kitty to ensure I never have to HTPC again. But, I'd gladly pay $100 if it achieved certain objectives. (no idea how xBox works, but if I could have a single GUI for SageTV recordings & liveTV, ripped DVD, ripped BR, netflix, amazon instant video, Hulu and it wasn't as FUGLY as the SageTV GUI for Amazon/Hulu which is all but unusable)

[sflamm]

It appears there is some support for timer conflicts in the PVR API:

https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/1577

The API does not appear to have any real documentation I can find...

[7up]

Originally Posted by IVB

But, I'd gladly pay $100 if it achieved certain objectives. (no idea how xBox works, but if I could have a single GUI for SageTV recordings & liveTV, ripped DVD, ripped BR, netflix, amazon instant video, Hulu and it wasn't as FUGLY as the SageTV GUI for Amazon/Hulu which is all but unusable)

This is somewhat on the lines of why I became interested in looking at XBMC in the first place. A relatively inexpensive Android based client could run XBMC and still support Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Slingplayer, etc. without continual workarounds.

[sflamm]

API has timer support:

bool HasTimerSupport(int iClientId);
PVR_ERROR GetTimers(CPVRTimers *timers);
PVR_ERROR AddTimer(const CPVRTimerInfoTag &timer);
PVR_ERROR UpdateTimer(const CPVRTimerInfoTag &timer);
PVR_ERROR DeleteTimer(const CPVRTimerInfoTag &timer, bool bForce);
PVR_ERROR RenameTimer(const CPVRTimerInfoTag &timer, const CStdString &strNewName);

This should be able to support synchronizing the schedules...

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by 7up

This is somewhat on the lines of why I became interested in looking at XBMC in the first place. A relatively inexpensive Android based client could run XBMC and still support Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Slingplayer, etc. without continual workarounds.

Careful. The objectives need to be defined before this goes to the developer or you'll wind up with feature creep. Once those objectives are finished and (hopefully) the source code gets released as FOSS, I'm optimistic that others will take up the charge to extend the features even further.

I think the discussions so far have proved beneficial, but I hope many others will join in with concerns and ideas.

[sflamm]

Turns out the backend can write the 'tag.state' of a timer which can be in the following states:

typedef enum
  {
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_NEW          = 0, /*!< @brief a new, unsaved timer */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_SCHEDULED    = 1, /*!< @brief the timer is scheduled for recording */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_RECORDING    = 2, /*!< @brief the timer is currently recordings */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_COMPLETED    = 3, /*!< @brief the recording completed successfully */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_ABORTED      = 4, /*!< @brief recording started, but was aborted */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_CANCELLED    = 5, /*!< @brief the timer was scheduled, but was canceled */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_CONFLICT_OK  = 6, /*!< @brief the scheduled timer conflicts with another one, but will be recorded */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_CONFLICT_NOK = 7, /*!< @brief the scheduled timer conflicts with another one and won't be recorded */
    PVR_TIMER_STATE_ERROR        = 8  /*!< @brief the timer is scheduled, but can't be recorded for some reason */
  } PVR_TIMER_STATE;

[LehighBri]

Originally Posted by sflamm

The API does not appear to have any real documentation I can find...

I couldn't find any documentation either. I think the best bet is to start with the pvr.demo addon and look at what other pvr addons did in implementing the required functions. Official PVR addon source code is here: https://github.com/opdenkamp/xbmc-pv.../master/addons

[7up]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Careful. The objectives need to be defined before this goes to the developer or you'll wind up with feature creep. Once those objectives are finished and (hopefully) the source code gets released as FOSS, I'm optimistic that others will take up the charge to extend the features even further.

I think the discussions so far have proved beneficial, but I hope many others will join in with concerns and ideas.

I think my comments above were misunderstood. By developing for an Android device, there were be zero need for a developer to concerned about supporting services like Netflix, Hulu, Slingplayer etc. as functional apps for them already exist.

[sflamm]

the best bet is to start with the pvr.demo addon and look at what other pvr addons did in implementing the required functions

Already been doing that... doesnt change the fact there is no documentation

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by 7up

I think my comments above were misunderstood. By developing for an Android device, there were be zero need for a developer to concerned about supporting services like Netflix, Hulu, Slingplayer etc. as functional apps for them already exist.

You're right. It was a reading comprehension issue on my end. While my point is still relevant, I shouldn't have quote you in making it. Sorry about that.

[7up]

No problem. Your comments and suggestions in this thread are most appreciated.

[panteragstk]

If we could get the basic functionality of simply viewing live TV and watching what has already been recorded that would be a great first step.

If we start there and work in everything else that would make people very happy.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Already been doing that... doesnt change the fact there is no documentation

The API is lightly document but not too hard to figure out based simply on the function name name. Remember that you define the meet of how the function gets its return data. Based on what I saw when I wrote the SageTV->NextPVR conversion utility I think the SageTV had it all, except maybe dumping of EPG data in xml or json and LiveTV which the bulk of XBMC users want. Given that this is a product for a small base of existing SageTV users only even the XBMC users requirements won't matter.

Martin

[sflamm]

Given that this is a product for a small base of existing SageTV users only even the XBMC users requirements won't matter.

Is this an assumption...

Does anyone know approximately how many SageTV users there are?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Is this an assumption...

Does anyone know approximately how many SageTV users there are?

Only way I can think is to see how many different IP's grab EPG data per day. Even that wouldn't be accurate.

I think there are more than we realize. This would be something that a few people would find very useful. I've got plenty of client PC's, but I'd love to see how a tiny android xbmc client would work. More toys to play with.

[brewston]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Only way I can think is to see how many different IP's grab EPG data per day. Even that wouldn't be accurate.

People outside US don't use the EPG server. Don't know how many of us there are in Europe

[sflamm]

Only way I can think is to see how many different IP's grab EPG data per day. Even that wouldn't be accurate.

I think the best way would be to measure how many people take an update to the standard STV.

I am suspecting we are talking 1000s for sure - not 100s.

A large number is good motivation for a continued strong development community. It would be great if someone could get a ballpark that was 80:20 correct.

[Evil_Attorney]

I would think you could get a rough idea of active users based on the number of people that visit this forum. According to the front page: Members: 17,440, Active Members: 501

I suspect that only the active users would even find out about an XBMC plugin, which puts my guess at between about 100-200 users who would be interested and likely buy a license.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Is this an assumption...

My assumption was based on the fact that XBMC is limited as a PVR frontend so I figure many SageTV won't bother replacing a working client to get less functionality.

If XBMC is good enough then why not just go with WMC or any of the other backends and get as much or more then SageTV offers without basing the system on an obsolete product.

Martin