SageTV Client smooth playback HD300 alike.

[gabrielcab]

Hello,

What settings and codecs are you using to have a smooth playback from live/recorded HD TV? My videos are playing "good" but when I compare it with my HD300 it is not as good as with the HD300. If i compare with a game i'd say that i need to turn on the v-sync option as I see image tearing with fast moving images.

[panteragstk]

What format? Mpeg 2 or h.264?

What OS?

The MS decoders built into W7 work well for both formats depending on your video hardware.

[gabrielcab]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

What format? Mpeg 2 or h.264?

What OS?

The MS decoders built into W7 work well for both formats depending on your video hardware.

h.264 and Windows 7. I have a GTX 580 video card. The MS decorder can handle my HD TV shows from a HD-PVR but not as smooth as I like. I'm noticing a little tearing on the image and it is not playing as smooth as with my HD300.

[gabrielcab]

Is there any registry hack or special installation step that I have to do with SageTV if I want to use LAV or CUDA codecs? I installed LAV Splitter on my PC but when i configure SageTV to use it it crashes.

[texneus]

Don't add another variable by installing more codecs. Win7 has everything you need already for MPG & H.264 playback built in. Use the MS-DTV decoders for both audio & video and use the EVR renderer. You need nothing else for those formats, and the quality is already more than acceptable.

I have my GT240 set to use V-Sync and tripple buffering, although I'm not at all convinced those settings do a thing for video (these settings are in the 3D section, not under video), but doubt they hurt. Everything else is at default settings.

My experience with NVidia video playback is less than spectacular. I started with a 7600GT several years ago, currently use a GT240. Both cards were/are awful at IVTC. On the 7600GT the only way I was ever able to get smooth playback is to disable "Use Inverse Telecine" in the video settings menu. It's almost as if this setting actually forces the card to always IVTC, even when it is not required. The result is a mess of dropped frames, stutters, jerks, and tearing as the video card struggled to lock onto a non-existent telecine cadence.

Symptom is the exact same on my GT240 with the same cure. However, for my GT240, I stumbled on a driver that seems to actually provide reasonable IVTC, although scene changes still trip it up, as does telecined video that's not a 3:2 cadence. That driver is version 258.96. No other driver I've ever tried newer or older has has ever worked right with IVTC enabled, and the variance in IVTC capability between even adjacent driver versions was rather astonishing. Quite a few complaints about this on the NVidia forums too, although I'm not familiar with the current situation.

So, there you have it. Win7 decoders, EVR rendering, GT240 with a very old driver version. I get perfectly smooth news crawls excepting the conditions described above.

My suggestion, try disabling IVTC (uncheck "use inverse telecine") and see if your video smooths out. If it does and the telecine artifacts don't bother you, then you're good to go. If the Telecine is bothersome you'll need to try older driver versions until you find something that works (or just works acceptably).

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by gabrielcab

Is there any registry hack or special installation step that I have to do with SageTV if I want to use LAV or CUDA codecs? I installed LAV Splitter on my PC but when i configure SageTV to use it it crashes.

To use the LAV decoders all you have to do is select the option to choose a decoder that isn't in the list and scroll down to the lav decoder. I used them with my 8800gt and they work ok. I've had the best success with the arcsoft tmt5 decoders for h.264. I use AMD hardware though. Nvidia has always been problematic when it comes to video playback. They love to break things in the drivers and never fix them.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

To use the LAV decoders all you have to do is select the option to choose a decoder that isn't in the list and scroll down to the lav decoder. I used them with my 8800gt and they work ok. I've had the best success with the arcsoft tmt5 decoders for h.264. I use AMD hardware though. Nvidia has always been problematic when it comes to video playback. They love to break things in the drivers and never fix them.

best way to get those drivers is via the TMT software i assume right?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by PiX64

best way to get those drivers is via the TMT software i assume right?

Yeah. Just download the trial, take the codec folder and add the checkactivate.dll from doom9 and you can use them in external applications. That's it.

[Rob]

I'm using the TMT codecs and it is the closest thing I've found to the HD300. Not as good, but getting close.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Yeah. Just download the trial, take the codec folder and add the checkactivate.dll from doom9 and you can use them in external applications. That's it.

can you pm me where one would find that from doom 9

[PiX64]

nevermind

[gabrielcab]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Yeah. Just download the trial, take the codec folder and add the checkactivate.dll from doom9 and you can use them in external applications. That's it.

I have TMT5 full version installed on my PC. Should I just take the codec folder from the TMT5 and copy it to the SageTV folder? what should I do with the checkativate.dll once I donwloadit?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by gabrielcab

I have TMT5 full version installed on my PC. Should I just take the codec folder from the TMT5 and copy it to the SageTV folder? what should I do with the checkativate.dll once I donwloadit?

Put it in the codec folder and register it with a filter manager. No need to relocate the folder.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Put it in the codec folder and register it with a filter manager. No need to relocate the folder.

Im having issues getting that working in Win7 x64.

i keep getting an error when trying to run the regsrv32... i googled and found that the location of regsrve32 in win7 x64 is different... so i used that location but i still get an error:

The Module ASVid.ax was loaded but the call to DLLRegisterServer failed with error 0x8007005

[gabrielcab]

I'm getting the same error when try to register checkactivate.dll on win 7 x64. And I only see Arcsoft Audio Decoder HD on the H.264 decoder list.

[gabrielcab]

Originally Posted by texneus

Don't add another variable by installing more codecs. Win7 has everything you need already for MPG & H.264 playback built in. Use the MS-DTV decoders for both audio & video and use the EVR renderer. You need nothing else for those formats, and the quality is already more than acceptable.

I have my GT240 set to use V-Sync and tripple buffering, although I'm not at all convinced those settings do a thing for video (these settings are in the 3D section, not under video), but doubt they hurt. Everything else is at default settings.

My experience with NVidia video playback is less than spectacular. I started with a 7600GT several years ago, currently use a GT240. Both cards were/are awful at IVTC. On the 7600GT the only way I was ever able to get smooth playback is to disable "Use Inverse Telecine" in the video settings menu. It's almost as if this setting actually forces the card to always IVTC, even when it is not required. The result is a mess of dropped frames, stutters, jerks, and tearing as the video card struggled to lock onto a non-existent telecine cadence.

Symptom is the exact same on my GT240 with the same cure. However, for my GT240, I stumbled on a driver that seems to actually provide reasonable IVTC, although scene changes still trip it up, as does telecined video that's not a 3:2 cadence. That driver is version 258.96. No other driver I've ever tried newer or older has has ever worked right with IVTC enabled, and the variance in IVTC capability between even adjacent driver versions was rather astonishing. Quite a few complaints about this on the NVidia forums too, although I'm not familiar with the current situation.

So, there you have it. Win7 decoders, EVR rendering, GT240 with a very old driver version. I get perfectly smooth news crawls excepting the conditions described above.

My suggestion, try disabling IVTC (uncheck "use inverse telecine") and see if your video smooths out. If it does and the telecine artifacts don't bother you, then you're good to go. If the Telecine is bothersome you'll need to try older driver versions until you find something that works (or just works acceptably).

Did what you suggested and now I don't see any more tearing.

Thanks!

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by PiX64

Im having issues getting that working in Win7 x64.

i keep getting an error when trying to run the regsrv32... i googled and found that the location of regsrve32 in win7 x64 is different... so i used that location but i still get an error:

The Module ASVid.ax was loaded but the call to DLLRegisterServer failed with error 0x8007005

Use this filter manager. Be sure to run it in admin mode and you shouldn't have anymore issues.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by Rob

I'm using the TMT codecs and it is the closest thing I've found to the HD300. Not as good, but getting close.

This is a very interesting thread / topic -

Is it not possible to get a SageTV client box with the latest processor, GPU (discrete or integrated), and ample RAM to get the same (or better) video performance as a $150 (original retail) HD300?

Granted, the HD300 has hardware based video acceleration but with the hundreds of video cards released in the past several years (and IGP like w/ AMD's Llano APUs and Intel HD3000), surely there is one with the same level of hardware-based video acceleration as what the HD300 has on it for a fraction of the price?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by gilded07

This is a very interesting thread / topic -

Is it not possible to get a SageTV client box with the latest processor, GPU (discrete or integrated), and ample RAM to get the same (or better) video performance as a $150 (original retail) HD300?

Granted, the HD300 has hardware based video acceleration but with the hundreds of video cards released in the past several years (and IGP like w/ AMD's Llano APUs and Intel HD3000), surely there is one with the same level of hardware-based video acceleration as what the HD300 has on it for a fraction of the price?

TBH, it all depends on configuration. So many variables with different decoders, drivers, video card capabilities that an hd300 could very well have a better picture than a full blown pc.

However, I have been very picky about what video card I got and what decoders I use and have gotten VERY good PQ from MPC-HC with the lav filters and madvr. I don't really think it could get any better. My card in that particular setup scores higher on the HQV test (subjective IIRC) than most standalone video processors, but that doesn't mean a standalone video processor coupled with an hdx00 couldn't end up with a better result.

This also brings in what display you are using and whether or not it is calibrated.

All in all, this is all VERY subjective and there are way too many variables.

The most talked about thing from the OP was tearing. That has a lot to do with the settings on the video card and the decoder being used. Video cards are just now coming with the hardware decoding capabilities that standalone decoders (like the sigma chip in the hd300) have had for years.

[Rob]

Mine is an intel HD3000 i5 with 8G of Ram. I'm using a 65" VT30 Pany and I have an HD300 and my client where I can compare them switching the HDMI cable back and forth.

I cannot tell any difference with blu rays using Fuzzy's external player to trigger TMT5; however, DVD's are generally not as smooth on the client and the worse the DVD qaulity is, the more the difference between the HD300 and the client. I've compared DVD's playing through TMT5 as well as through Sage using the TMT and MS codecs.

All I wanted to prove is that there is life for Sage if one of my HD300's fails and would love to figure out if there is something else I can try to close the last little gap with DVDs.