Stay or Bail ?

[speck55]

Originally Posted by simfreak

As for why google is doing this? simple its all about IP. IP= Intelectual Property; Google has cash and its cheaper to buy then it is to create.

I'm not saying its impossible, anyone can have a change of heart.

If you want speculation, GoogleTV is being implanted into a set top box for googles FTTH project so they can offer a tripple play service. After all, whats the return on a FTTH connection if all you get is $35/m for it?

check. :P

Should read: "Google has cash, and it's cheaper to destroy than compete."

W/RE: the FTTH project, if Kansas City (both of them) work out, it's bittersweet. (A) Google brings us up to speed with other countries in terms of speed and availability of broadband, (B) Google battles net neutrality and wins, and if you want to open a service, well go ahead, but pay google if you want to be on their "Premium Tier". If they make it nationwide with this over say the next 10 years, then roll out an IPTV network, thus becoming the first nationwide cable/ISP (I mean REAL cable/ISP, not the satellite lag and "oops it's raining" form). Not a bad endgame, I don't think.

[bunch92]

Originally Posted by simfreak

I too am a sage user, have been sine 08' so its not like i wanted to hear this news, I just have the contacts to find out the truth, it took a few weeks, but today he came back with a answer.

If you dont want to belive me then so be it. I have nothing to gain or lose. I thought i would just post what i found out. At this point im thinking i should have just kept my mouth shut and walked away.

As far as contacts go; sorry they dont want their name plasterd on the forum since they really shouldnt be speaking of the topic to begin with and no; its not really top secret in the company.

As for why google is doing this? simple its all about IP. IP= Intelectual Property; Google has cash and its cheaper to buy then it is to create.

I'm not saying its impossible, anyone can have a change of heart. But the word it right now that SageTv is dead, it's code will be merged with the googletv tree and used to enhance its abilities.

If you want speculation, GoogleTV is being implanted into a set top box for googles FTTH project so they can offer a tripple play service. After all, whats the return on a FTTH connection if all you get is $35/m for it?

Sorry if this post sounds harsh; it wrote both in a hurry. I also didnt run spell check. :P

So that is the plan , I am guttered, SageTV was such a great product. I still had some hope as the announcement on the SageTV front page ends with "Full speed ahead!". Would have been better to write "That's all folks!" Thank you for sharing the news Simfreak.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by simfreak

I too am a sage user, have been sine 08' so its not like i wanted to hear this news, I just have the contacts to find out the truth, it took a few weeks, but today he came back with a answer.

If you dont want to belive me then so be it. I have nothing to gain or lose. I thought i would just post what i found out. At this point im thinking i should have just kept my mouth shut and walked away.

As far as contacts go; sorry they dont want their name plasterd on the forum since they really shouldnt be speaking of the topic to begin with and no; its not really top secret in the company.

As for why google is doing this? simple its all about IP. IP= Intelectual Property; Google has cash and its cheaper to buy then it is to create.

I'm not saying its impossible, anyone can have a change of heart. But the word it right now that SageTv is dead, it's code will be merged with the googletv tree and used to enhance its abilities.

If you want speculation, GoogleTV is being implanted into a set top box for googles FTTH project so they can offer a tripple play service. After all, whats the return on a FTTH connection if all you get is $35/m for it?

Sorry if this post sounds harsh; it wrote both in a hurry. I also didnt run spell check. :P

If you have info we obviously want to know. I was kidding in my post btw. We all know sage is dead in it's current form development wise, but with the time and effort I've put in it will remain the center of my media for a while. Maybe the new google TV will be awesome. Some of the devs have even said that making an android app would be easier than a sage plugin, so if we put our current resources into that we could make google tv the new sagetv. Whether or not anyone would actually want to do that is the question.

I can't be the only one who is intrigued by a google dvr. How would they even make that work with current stb's? Or are they planning on being included in directv, dish, comcast, etc? If this is true this could be very interesting.

[simfreak]

Since sage is built on java, it wouldn't be hard to port into a set top box built by other vendors; I'm reluctant to say, but i contract out to a company in Si called Minerva Networks; Which builds IP TV solutions for small Telcos.
Their QA and engineering department test about 50 different set top boxes with their own software. Most of these boxes run some variant of linux, and they just install their software on top of it;

So in theory, Yes, Google TV could find its way into Dtv, Dish, Comcast Etc and maybe that's googles plan. After all, You now can track what people are watching, surfing etc. So technically if you also provide the bandwidth, you can custom sell TV commercials to a target of subs which would yield a premium.
As an example; Say you were goggling the Chevy Volt; The next time you watch TV you would see more commercials for Hybrids and fuel efficient cars.
The opposite can also be said; Say you were watching DIY, the next time you were on google you might see ads for landscaping, hardware stores etc.

As far as the likely hood; Its not very likely. DTV uses some british company for their PVR software, Comcast pretty much built their own (i think); Dish... i have no idea, so they might be a canidate.

ATT could also be a candidate since from what i understand, their stb's suck.

[wildgoose]

Let me ask a silly question. I am quite happy with my current SageTV setup (server + HD300 + HD-Home-Run). Even if Sage stops development, I could be happy using my current setup until the HD300 dies. This of course, depends on I able to get my program guide info.

Does accessing the program guide depend on a service from sage.com? If this is shutdown by google in one year, could we trick or hack the system to use a different service?

I guess I could always do manual recording like a VCR, but that’s way harder...

[panteragstk]

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56228

[speck55]

Originally Posted by simfreak

ATT could also be a candidate since from what i understand, their stb's suck.

AT&T, having just recently dumped their U-Verse IPTV service, would be a prime candidate. To say their STBs suck doesn't do it justice.

The STBs in my market can't even output surround sound without audio drop outs. 4 techs later, the answer was: "It's your equipment." (All $3k of receiver and amp) and/or "It's a known issue", depending on just who you were talking to.

"Just set the STB to put out stereo.". Read enough forums, and you find out the HDMI chip they use doesn't render something quite right and sync is lost every so many packets, same with TOSLink output. However, they run Microsoft MediaRoom (WinCE on a Motorola STB) (and disable all its cool features). Get DTS-MA / TruSurround bitstreamed from my HTPC, I get DD over the air, all decoded without issue, but it's my equipment.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by speck55

AT&T, having just recently dumped their U-Verse IPTV service, would be a prime candidate. To say their STBs suck doesn't do it justice. .

Are you saying AT&T is abandoning U-Verse for TV delivery? They've spent a fortune on V-RADs.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by speck55

AT&T, having just recently dumped their U-Verse IPTV service, would be a prime candidate. To say their STBs suck doesn't do it justice.

The STBs in my market can't even output surround sound without audio drop outs. 4 techs later, the answer was: "It's your equipment." (All $3k of receiver and amp) and/or "It's a known issue", depending on just who you were talking to.

"Just set the STB to put out stereo.". Read enough forums, and you find out the HDMI chip they use doesn't render something quite right and sync is lost every so many packets, same with TOSLink output. However, they run Microsoft MediaRoom (WinCE on a Motorola STB) (and disable all its cool features). Get DTS-MA / TruSurround bitstreamed from my HTPC, I get DD over the air, all decoded without issue, but it's my equipment.

ATT dropped u-verse? Then why are they trying to sell it to me?

[Savage1701]

As I understand it, they have just basically dropped/slowed down to a trickle the rollout of U-Verse.

If you are in a neighborhood that has U-Verse but are not a customer yet, they'd love to have you.

But I think as far as new neighborhoods/areas go, they are scaling back to almost nothing new.

I think they just fought a big battle in San Francisco because people thought the pedestals they used were ugly and did not want them. They finally agreed with AT&T. No doubt these are many of the same people that complain about high prices, slow internet speeds, and poor service/selection from competing cable companies...

My brother-in-law traveled on and off for over 2 years to the Chicago area deploying U-Verse but that has now essentially stopped. The only time he travels for AT&T is if there some massive storm damage that overwhelms local crews, and that tends to be very short term travel, not months at a time.

[panteragstk]

I guess it is different in TX. Att just started u-verse in my area about 6 months ago. Before that it wasn't available. Not that it really matters. They have a 250gb cap and slower speeds for the money anyway. I hate to say it, but Time Warner has 30/5mb for less that att's 24/2mb, and TW has no cap in place (yet). I miss my fiber optic connection I had before I moved to where I am. I really miss the quality of signal I was getting. Oh well.

[Savage1701]

It sure could be. I know there is U-Verse 6 miles away from me and has been for over 2 years. My brother in law who works at AT&T has it. My mom lives about a mile and half away from him. She never has gotten it.

Now, they are very undemanding people relative to video enthusiasts like us.

They have a main U-Verse box in their living room and an extender in a home office and their bedroom. They don't use surround sound, and they don't really even know what their download speed is, so they have really never had an issue or a complaint.

But it seems like the build-out has stopped in our area for sure, and we are not like a San Francisco that might oppose it just to be politically "cute" or something like that. Believe me, if building out U-Verse would add a single job to our areas our local city councils would be fighting over whose community gets that job !

I mean, I've seen the boxes (vrads?) U-Verse uses. They are hardly any more, and probably less, offensive than all those green pedestals phone lines and cable companies use now.

One thing is for sure - the U.S. is pitiful relative to other countries on internet speeds and deployment !

[wayner]

Everybody has to totally stop worrying about Guide data. That is the lease of our issues - I used Series 1 TiVos about 8 years ago in Canada years before they were supported by TiVo and we were able to (first) scrape data off of web sites and then move to XMLTV. Getting data will not be an issue - there may be a small fee but we should easily be able to get access to the same data that Sage is using now from Zap2it.

The real issues are adding more clients - either extenders or client PC, and replacing extenders when they die.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

ATT dropped u-verse? Then why are they trying to sell it to me?

By "recently dropping", I meant me, personally. I kept their 24x3 static internet service, as the meters aren't up and running yet. Day that happens, finito.

They have declared an end to new VRADs (neighborhoods) as apparently they are happy with their market penetration (if you get my double meaning there).

[speck55]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I guess it is different in TX. Att just started u-verse in my area about 6 months ago. Before that it wasn't available. Not that it really matters. They have a 250gb cap and slower speeds for the money anyway. I hate to say it, but Time Warner has 30/5mb for less that att's 24/2mb, and TW has no cap in place (yet). I miss my fiber optic connection I had before I moved to where I am. I really miss the quality of signal I was getting. Oh well.

While their IPTV service is abbhorid (esp. HD quality - compression artifacts, surround drop-outs, and boxes losing their "license" and causing a truck roll to REPLACE them (yes, I am serious, and multiple times),

I will defend their data service - having come from TWC, UVerse's advertised data speeds are constantly right at the advertised speeds, even during peak times. They issue static blocks for $15-25/month, even though the setup is a little kludgy due to their gateway, TWC believes that for the same $90/month I pay for 24x3 w/16 statics, they should charge me for "Business Class" 768 or 1.5mbit down by pretty much nothing up, with 1-2 statics.

[stevech]

U-Verse in my area is beyond a marketing joke - it's bordering on fraud.

Technically speaking, the scheme is laughable: using ye ole twisted pair copper to the home to try to cram 30Mbps to get one HD stream and some quasi-HD and some Internet/IP.

Meanwhile, cable TV DOCSIS 3 rolls along, where "ye ole" cable is essentially a 1GHz pipe into your house without the gigantic capital outlay AT&T was doing with VRADs. I'll guess they spend billions on VRADs. How can they write-down that?

[speck55]

Originally Posted by stevech

U-Verse in my area is beyond a marketing joke - it's bordering on fraud.

Technically speaking, the scheme is laughable: using ye ole twisted pair copper to the home to try to cram 30Mbps to get one HD stream and some quasi-HD and some Internet/IP.

Meanwhile, cable TV DOCSIS 3 rolls along, where "ye ole" cable is essentially a 1GHz pipe into your house without the gigantic capital outlay AT&T was doing with VRADs. I'll guess they spend billions on VRADs. How can they write-down that?

On the data side, when your two neighbors are actually USING that 50mbit, and you are left with the scraps of what's left on your particular headend/node. Remember, that 1Ghz of bandwidth is shared with everyone on your headend/node blade, and from working for TWC, I know how large an area a single headend serves. AT&T (evil as they are) *DO* bring a large fiber pipe within 3000' of your home, and they do bring you a dedicated, conditioned pair, that DOES do 32mbit x 5mbit, max 24x3 allocated for internet, quite reliably, and at least where I live, with pretty much 99.9% constant speeds whereas DOCSIS' HFC (hybrid fiber/coaxial) network, the fiber crossover point is much further away, and speeds are highly variable. Of that 1Ghz, btw, in most markets, the first 300 or so mhz are NTSC simulcasts. ("Analog basic" cable).

That's how. They did a really nice job on the data side, they just suck at TV.

[stevech]

Yeah, but I've had TWC cable modem for many years - and each time I check it with speedTest.net it's 20Mbps down with DOCSIS 2. Quite pleased.

On U-Verse, I wonder if AT&T slowed/stopped U-verse build-outs because they planned to get to this saturation level and see what the subscribers' take-rate is? By take-rate, I mean homes-passed (served) versus subscribers' taking service. In my area, the take rate is quite low, tiny even. The 2Kilowatt VRAD sits there on the curb eating electricity. Doesn't snow here, or at least it would keep that part of the sidewalk clear.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by stevech

Yeah, but I've had TWC cable modem for many years - and each time I check it with speedTest.net it's 20Mbps down with DOCSIS 2. Quite pleased.

On U-Verse, I wonder if AT&T slowed/stopped U-verse build-outs because they planned to get to this saturation level and see what the subscribers' take-rate is? By take-rate, I mean homes-passed (served) versus subscribers' taking service. In my area, the take rate is quite low, tiny even. The 2Kilowatt VRAD sits there on the curb eating electricity. Doesn't snow here, or at least it would keep that part of the sidewalk clear.

If they gave up and sold it as a data product, making better advertising of features like static for sane prices, 24x3mbit up (3 mbit up is very useful for a lot of things), and made more sales to small/medium business, I think they'd have something.

Also, with TWC, the speedtest.net type tests are tricked by the "turbo boost" where you are allocated a higher downstream rate for the first XX megabytes of the test.

On the other side, you forgot to mention the exploding lead-acid batteries that plagued the VRADs, and in some instances set fire to adjacent buildings, literally blowing the doors of the VRADs off....

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Localhorst

...And finally my choice: The DVBViewer ... Almost every adapter is supported ....There is a demo which can be used for testing.

Has anybody else tried DVBViewer?

I just downloaded the demo and my impressions are:

• The demo is so crippled that a meaningful evaluation is not possible.
  Among other things, the demo does not allow any recording at all - which seems to me tb the heart and soul of such an application
  [br]
  
• As far as I could determine, there was no provision for OTA - or at least it's scan of my four HD HomeRun tuners only listed "Cable" for each one.
  Could OTA be obsolete in Europe?

Or am I missing something?