Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[mistergq]

I think the cable card support depends more on the content provider than SageDCT, HDHR Prime, or other devices. As a fios subscriber, the only problem I have had is that HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime become copy once for a couple of days every once in awhile. Also, SD channels sometimes fail.

I don't watch SD channels (others in my house do) so I am not concerned, especially since most of those channels have HD versions. As to the HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime, I still have my HD PVR and two stbs. I was considering getting another HD Homerun Prime, but after the July 31 scare where channels could disappear, I decided to stick with the two stbs for now.

As to the switch back to something simple, I just don't see it. We have over 5 TBs over recording capacity. The other day I notice we got down to 84 GB. I just don't see that as an option with FIOS. And the great thing is I can keep expanding.

I also seen friends who post that their provider's dvr fail and they lose all their content. The only time I lost content is a HD failure or stupid mistake.

I am open to the idea of switching. I don't want to be one of those that say I will never go. I also am very hopeful that NextPVR or another alternative can get to the level of Sage with extenders. I would be willing to switch then. But until then, or until my equipment starts failing and I can't replacements, I am sticking with sagetv.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by mistergq

I think the cable card support depends more on the content provider than SageDCT, HDHR Prime, or other devices. ...

If you're refering to the copy flags then yes it is upto the provider. But if you're talking about recording then, that's upto Sage it elf and in some cases Sage would need to support DRM. SageDCT is only a conduit for the tv signal to be seen by Sage, it doesn't even care about the copy flags, Sage does. At least that is my understanding of how it works.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by ChePazzo

... Is there a way to delete a recording after watching via XBMC?

That is a good question. I didn't get that far myself. I was able to watch live tv from the HDHR Prime. But not for very long. Changing channels caused this to go a rye quickly. I am not sure how much further they have gotten since last May when I was testing.

[ChePazzo]

So, I guess the main issue I have with using Myth as a backend and anything else as a frontend is that I still have to connect to a Myth frontend (or web frontend) to delete stuff I've watched from the Myth Database. I imagine just deleting the file from the HDD would not be good from a Myth perspective.

Originally Posted by Skybolt

That is a good question. I didn't get that far myself. I was able to watch live tv from the HDHR Prime. But not for very long. Changing channels caused this to go a rye quickly. I am not sure how much further they have gotten since last May when I was testing.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by ChePazzo

So, I guess the main issue I have with using Myth as a backend and anything else as a frontend is that I still have to connect to a Myth frontend (or web frontend) to delete stuff I've watched from the Myth Database. I imagine just deleting the file from the HDD would not be good from a Myth perspective.

XBMC should allow you to delete a video file from with-in the interface. But as you pointed out, there in lies the real issue, No client-server interaction like with Sage.

This is one of the reasons I am setting up 7MC as a server in hopes the Echo will be a great client for 7MC. Then there is a clear path going forward.

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

This is one of the reasons I am setting up 7MC as a server in hopes the Echo will be a great client for 7MC. Then there is a clear path going forward.

Try this WMC plugin which lets you set recordings on a master WMC from client machines.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/....php?f=9&t=523

Works so far for me...

Hint - you get two guides, one for recordings on the local machine and one guide for recordings on the master (Server?).

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by jerryt

Try this WMC plugin which lets you set recordings on a master WMC from client machines.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/....php?f=9&t=523

Works so far for me...

Hint - you get two guides, one for recordings on the local machine and one guide for recordings on the master (Server?).

Thanks, I'll give it try. I say server, because I have 7MC runnig in a VM on my server with a dedicated raid drive for recording on with only extenders as clients. Trying to emulate one of Sages best attributes, client server operation.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

XBMC should allow you to delete a video file from with-in the interface. But as you pointed out, there in lies the real issue, No client-server interaction like with Sage.

There is plenty of client-server interaction, as long as you use the "mythfrontend" application as the client. Eg, there is no unified "MythTV" -- "mythbackend" is the server, and "mythfrontend" is the client. The client cares very little if it is run on the same machine as the server as long as it is the same version as the server.

Note that using XBMC to view mythtv is not supported by the myth people, and since MythTV keeps changing their protocol, so the XBMC folks have a moving target to hit. I think there was supposed to be some kind of standardized MythTV protocol for 3rd party interfaces that was not version dependent, but I do not know if it was finished. Part of the problem is that at least in the past, the "client" did stuff that talked directly to the mysql database server, rather than going through the mythbackend. (eg, getting guide data).


Drew

[nycjoe]

On a personal note, I just wanted to say that I have thought about this long and hard and I'm unable to decide which product I hate more - mythtv or WMC.

I dislike them for completely different reasons so it's a tough call for me.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by nycjoe

On a personal note, I just wanted to say that I have thought about this long and hard and I'm unable to decide which product I hate more - mythtv or WMC.

I dislike them for completely different reasons so it's a tough call for me.

Hate is a pretty strong word. Just curious but why do you "Hate" mythtv?

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by drewg

There is plenty of client-server interaction, as long as you use the "mythfrontend" application as the client. Eg, there is no unified "MythTV" -- "mythbackend" is the server, and "mythfrontend" is the client. The client cares very little if it is run on the same machine as the server as long as it is the same version as the server.

Note that using XBMC to view mythtv is not supported by the myth people, and since MythTV keeps changing their protocol, so the XBMC folks have a moving target to hit. I think there was supposed to be some kind of standardized MythTV protocol for 3rd party interfaces that was not version dependent, but I do not know if it was finished. Part of the problem is that at least in the past, the "client" did stuff that talked directly to the mysql database server, rather than going through the mythbackend. (eg, getting guide data).


Drew

Yeah, I tried the Myth front end as well. I guess you could say that I am not in love with Linux. Besides it doesn't support DRM at this point.

[nycjoe]

Originally Posted by PiX64

...why do you "Hate" mythtv?

Because it is such a major disappointment to me...

I'm definitely a Linux person (it is what I do for a living and run sagetv@linux). I was certain Sagetv EOL meant I'll move to mythtv sooner or later, but after looking at the interface... Yikes...

Its lack of any form of extender stems from their developers attitude on the subject - just bring the subject up with wagnerrp (Robert I believe). They won't even consider Atoms for frontends supportable - its sandy bridge or bust. ION is practically a 4 letter word.

It's also not clear to me why upgrades are so painful, and why the backend is almost never backwards compatible. Poor design, I would guess. Having to upgrade your entire setup in one shot can be a major WAF challenge! There were a couple of minor features I remember asking about years ago that still aren't there (and are "a challenge to implement").

That being said, WMC being a MS product is a totally different can of worms. That company, geeze... They excel at sucking - zune, vista.. You know, I saw an XP tablet in 2004 and remember thinking "nice, this is definitely going to be huge someday." Hitch your wagon to their horse and you'll end up like Nokia. No upgrade from WP7.5->8.0? does this surprise anyone?

After years of *NIX admin, I started doing windows in recent years, and... Wow, where do I start... There is so much voodoo involved. So many incidents of "something's corrupted, it needs to be re-installed" and "sometimes you get an error there, and if you do you have to wipe out the server or you'll have phantom domain controllers."

Clearly industry giants are beginning to focus on media in the living room, and MS (with their XBOX beachhead!) declare WMC legacy. WTF.

(updated the post - so funny, I wrote "saddle your horse to their [Microsoft] wagon")

[drewg]

Originally Posted by nycjoe

Because it is such a major disappointment to me...

I'm definitely a Linux person (it is what I do for a living and run sagetv@linux). I was certain Sagetv EOL meant I'll move to mythtv sooner or later, but after looking at the interface... Yikes...

Its lack of any form of extender stems from their developers attitude on the subject - just bring the subject up with wagnerrp (Robert I believe). They won't even consider Atoms for frontends supportable - its sandy bridge or bust. ION is practically a 4 letter word.

It's also not clear to me why upgrades are so painful, and why the backend is almost never backwards compatible. Poor design, I would guess. Having to upgrade your entire setup in one shot can be a major WAF challenge! There were a couple of minor features I remember asking about years ago that still aren't there (and are "a challenge to implement").

You must be a kindred soul... I'm a former *nix sysadmin who does driver development. I run SageTV on linux also. I came to SageTV after 3 or 4 years of MythTV. I agree with all of your points.

I'd also add that I hate their obsession with not violating EULA/ TOS / etc. They would never allow something like our Playon plugs, mc2xml, or anything that does soft cam. I asked questions about MC2XML (having to do with how the original air date was not properly supported), and was basically told to use schedules direct or take a hike. So when I fixed mythfilldatabase to work properly with mc2xml, I just kept the patch to myself.

Lock-step upgrades are required because they started with a terrible design (clients talk SQL directly to SQL server) and never fixed it. When they update versions, they also update database schema, and since the clients access they database directly, they need to be updated as well. This lack of backwards compat is pretty common in the open source world. Every new linux kernel release is an adventure if you do drivers..

The other thing that pisses me off is their insistence on their idiotic recording file naming. If they need to encode a database key into the filename fine, but make it some addition to a human readable filename like SageTV does.

If I go back to an Open Source PVR, it will probably be tvheadend + "Something"

I could almost say that I hate both MythTV and WMC because they both tick me off, but for different reasons.

Drew

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by drewg

... I could almost say that I hate both MythTV and WMC because they both tick me off, but for different reasons.

Drew

I totaly agree with that statement. Myth, well not to kick that tall horse, so I'll comment on M$. MS products always seem to be almost there, then they do a complete about face and well here we are again. starting over again.

I think WMC is the lesser of two evils and the most widely supported. With the promise of the Echo, it could breath new life into a floundering product. And actually become the software of choice, for now anyway. JMO.

[hemicuda]

Either one leaves me out in the cold with my provider; analog or HDPVR are my only options with them. Haven't yet seen an interface box/card to handle their IP-over-coax protocols that come out of their fiber ONT.

[stanger89]

I'm pretty sure an HDPVR (can) work with WMC.

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm pretty sure an HDPVR (can) work with WMC.

True, but I'm still on the other side of the fence from the HDPVR. That thing's been out long enough that the drivers should be nearly polished to a mirror finish. Anything I do from here on needs to be at least as stable as my server. Last info I have said thy still lock/hang up on a regular enough basis to need a reset script or some such.
<revised>
Original post sounded like a broken record discussing provider merits.

[Sparhawk6]

I think the Echo and WMC will be the best alternative. I can't wait to see how it performs when it comes out this winter.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

I think the Echo and WMC will be the best alternative. I can't wait to see how it performs when it comes out this winter.

Hopefully stanger will get one next month to test. I know a few other members got beta invites too.

[sflamm]

so lucky... alas I was not invited.

Hopefully there will be a detailed thread once stanger89 has his...