Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[davephan]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Yeah, that's been discussed before.. the nice thing is, sage doesn't really require an 'install' to operate, so you could have a backed up folder on your sever, re-image back pre-first client run, and copy over the folder, and run it. A bit cumbersome, but worth it every 20 days to keep the option to expand the system, and keep sage alive and running until a comparable replacement/continueation comes about.

I think I tried installing the SageTV client, then taking an image, then letting it expire, then recovering the image. I don't think that worked. I think I had to recover to a pre-installation state, then repeat the client installation. It's been awhile since I tested it. I might need to testing that again.

I also tried an automated install, but I could not get it to work running a macro on the same computer. I think an automated install might work running a macro using another computer and a remote control connection.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

An install could probably be worked out automated with the likes or girder macro's... never really looked into it. I'm wondering if you even NEED to install it though. You can probably copy a client install, and then register the appropriate filter libraries, and you'd be good to go.

[stanger89]

OK, this is somewhere between a "SageTV is better" and a fact finding post, so here goes...

Originally Posted by OneThomas

Now, I am still using the HDHR’s (same location/configuration), and still use my main PC to serve up my stored media (Music, Pix, Video, DVD’s). But, instead of the HD300 on my main TV, I bought a little Acer Revo running Windows 7 with Media Center and placed that in my entertainment cabinet. It is doing a great job at recording all my Television favorites, on the local internal hard drive. And it is serving up all my stored media via shares back to my main PC. It even somehow manages to lock in onto a problem station better then SAGE did (CBS 2.*)

How did you solve the inability to schedule recordings, watch live TV from the Revo?

Some of the differences to digest:
2 – Not designed to be a true Server/Client model, but you can fake it to some degree

How did you do that?

Microsoft now including an improved Media Center on all Windows 7 versions is really widening the audience for it, and there seems to be a lot of Development and talk about it on different web sites.

I'm not following this, I have not heard of any new developments to WMC since Windows 7 came out.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

An install could probably be worked out automated with the likes or girder macro's... never really looked into it. I'm wondering if you even NEED to install it though. You can probably copy a client install, and then register the appropriate filter libraries, and you'd be good to go.

I was going to test that process using Macro Express, http://www.macros.com/

I've used Macro Express for over a decade, and it's a great program. I'm pretty certain that I rolling back the computer to the trial day 1 after it expired with an image didn't work. I also don't know if you can run more than one Client trial at the same time.

Life would be much simpler if we could simply purchase Client licenses.


Dave

[IVB]

Originally Posted by davephan

Life would be much simpler if we could simply purchase Client licenses.


Dave

Or if GoogSage relaxed the EULA portion about transferring ownership, for those of us who have several licenses we're not ever going to use again. (I got extras when I set up my inlaws with SageTV, but after a year they went with the comcast DVR setup)

[OneThomas]

Originally Posted by stanger89

How did you solve the inability to schedule recordings, watch live TV from the Revo?

How did you do that?

I'm not following this, I have not heard of any new developments to WMC since Windows 7 came out.

Hmm... I didn't have any issues at all scheduling recordings or watching live TV. I loaded the HDHR software on the Revo, configured the 4 tuners, added the Tuners in WMC7, added all my Favorites, and it just took off recording all my favorites just as Sage would. Live TV works just as well.

If I don't switch the recoding to another larger machine, I will do something about storage on that little unit though - adding an external drive to record to or such, before the internal one with the OS on it gets burned up. The little thing gets pretty warm after a few hours of recording/watching TV.

Regarding the Server/Client thing - I guess it would be better to describe it as a peer-to-peer on steriods. I have all my media libraries on my main PC (an XP Machine) shared with a commond ID I use just for media type access. The Revo is doing all the TV based stuff locally (not recodring back to a share on the main XP machine), and streams all my stored media via the shares. So, I end up with what I had pretty darn close to Sage. When I add another WMC7 machine, it will share the recordings over the W7 Homegroup setup, and all my other media via the shares back to the main PC. I should note one thing I HATE about WMC7 is without a little extra setup care - anybody can easily delete anything. So you have to deal with Windows security to get around it.

The Xbox as an extender is a bit clunkier with all this - but I dont' intend to keep using it for long.

Regarding improvements to WMC, I have just started using W7. So I meant improvements to WMC from the XP version (I completely skipped Vista). I had resisted W7 because I was seriously considering going over to Mac instead - figuring if I had to get used to a newer OS, might as well really make a change. But the cost, extra software needed for TV recoding, and issues with file compatability finally just led me to trying out W7. And, I'm pretty happy with it. My main PC is still XP, no plans to convert that or all the software on it - as long as it still works.

I was never a "power" user of Sage. I had just a few baseic plugins installed, no com-skip, no PC extenders, I used to record analog cable with WinTV units, then switched to OTA with HDHR's during the digital transition. I started out with Sage 4 I believe, coincidentally using MVP's to access the recorded files, before they could be used as actual Sage Extenders. Then went with HD100's, then a HD300. So, my more basic history of use probably makes a conversion to WMC7 easier for me. It probably would be much more painful or less desirable for a power Sage user.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by OneThomas

Hmm... I didn't have any issues at all scheduling recordings or watching live TV. I loaded the HDHR software on the Revo, configured the 4 tuners, added the Tuners in WMC7, added all my Favorites, and it just took off recording all my favorites just as Sage would. Live TV works just as well.

If I don't switch the recoding to another larger machine, I will do something about storage on that little unit though - adding an external drive to record to or such, before the internal one with the OS on it gets burned up. The little thing gets pretty warm after a few hours of recording/watching TV.

Regarding the Server/Client thing - I guess it would be better to describe it as a peer-to-peer on steriods. I have all my media libraries on my main PC (an XP Machine) shared with a commond ID I use just for media type access. The Revo is doing all the TV based stuff locally (not recodring back to a share on the main XP machine), and streams all my stored media via the shares. So, I end up with what I had pretty darn close to Sage. When I add another WMC7 machine, it will share the recordings over the W7 Homegroup setup, and all my other media via the shares back to the main PC.

Ah, I see, you haven't run into it yet because you're only using one WMC machine, I thought you had a couple. That's really the showstopper for me at the moment, I "need" media and TV support in two locations, and 360's can't do that, so I'd need two HTPCs but there's no way to share the guide or tuners (without resorting to some Rube Goldberg contraption).

I was never a "power" user of Sage. I had just a few baseic plugins installed, no com-skip, no PC extenders, I used to record analog cable with WinTV units, then switched to OTA with HDHR's during the digital transition. I started out with Sage 4 I believe, coincidentally using MVP's to access the recorded files, before they could be used as actual Sage Extenders. Then went with HD100's, then a HD300. So, my more basic history of use probably makes a conversion to WMC7 easier for me. It probably would be much more painful or less desirable for a power Sage user.

I'm still trying to figure out how to replace the HD300s with a Windows Media Center setup since the WMC Extenders are pathetic compared to the HD300 (or even the 100).

[dan596]

Hello All,
I've been a SageTV user for several years now. I'm not one to post much...well....because frankly most of you are much more knowledgeable that me. I am, however, a frequent reader/consumer of the forum and much appreciated of all that so many of you have given here...especially to those who have created plug-in after plug-in to enhance the SageTV experience. As a result I thought it time to share my SageTV story:

I started with SageTV v6, built a Vista system for a base machine, and used two MediaMVPs as extenders. Life wasn't perfect thanks to Vista, the regular harddrive failure, and the occasional extender lock up. But overall, I was always satisfied and it was a system my wife was able to use with ease. Friends and family always asked how I was so easily able to call up pictures, home videos, and favorite TV shows for viewing on the TV when they would visit.

Then when version 7 came out, I had yet to upgrade to HD recording or extender and figured this was the time to do the research. I started looking again at what MCE was like, MythTV, and even what was available via services like Hulu, Netflix, and Playon. Nothing touched SageTV so I decided to get myself a v7 license, build a new machine and start tinkering. Then I moved on to purchase a ClearQAM card and also a cable box-plus-HD-PVR to start figuring out how to record digital signals. I have always been one to take my time and let technology go through its growing pain before adopting. Well, the ClearQAM card apparently wasn't the greatest (per discussions on forums) and I had no success getting the PVR to control my cablebox (again well noted by others on forums). But with my SageTV v6 system still running well and in daily use I wasn't in much hurry. Plus, V7 did go through its growing pains, and as we all know, the story goes, Google then bought SageTV.

Now my hand was forced to start considering my options. Not knowing how long my SageTV system would stay running or be supported I didn't want to take a chance. What made it even more critical was my cable provider put out the word that they would be dropping analog signals in 6 months. Again the search and endless review reading ensued. However, much to my amaze I came back to the same conclusion that SageTV was the best solution out there. With my SageTV v7 license in hand I decide to move forward with getting that system running. I tried, in vane, to get the PVR to work. This was a frustrating setback. I wasn't prepared to spend many 100's of dollars on a cablecard solution when SageTV could pull the plug anytime. But, as chance would have it I stumbled on a great deal for SiliconDust Prime box. Given the recent switch to digital only, the cable company had become a lot more agreeable with the cablecard support....and at no rental cost too.

My new Windows 7 machine built, SageTV7 running perfectly, and after several Comcast service calls, the Homerun Prime recording 3 HD digital channels flawlessly. Even the MediaMVP extenders are working much better...no hang ups. Honestly, I couldn't be happier. I also decided to skip the hunt for an HD extender, and opted to build a netbox PC which is working well too. All this success lead me to even try the PlayOn plugin and now I enjoy that addition of content.

So here we are present day. My SageTV v7 system has been running for about 6 months now without a hitch. I'm truly as happy as could be, digital viewing and recording wise. The catch: I'm visiting my mother and she asks me to look at her VCR. This is a women who probably has 100 VHS tapes that she circulates and records things on. Each one numbered with a spiral notebook that records what is on each of them. So if the VCR is dead we have a serious situation. To band aide the situation I gave her my VCR, which I never use...but lets face it....I'm on borrowed time now.

So again, the search begins for a recording solution for my mother. I thought about a DVR route. Fairly straight forward right. Well, first we all know DVRs suck, and everyone I know who has had one has some kind of reliability/dealing with cable company nightmare story. Second, DVRs require a) a monthly charge, and b)a certain level of digital cable plan. (i.e. even more $$) She doesn't have digital cable, and her back-country provider doesn't look to be forcing the upgrade anytime soon.

As it is, I had bought her a laptop several years ago and she has taken to it quite a bit. She still doesn't understand all basic windows concepts but she knows how to work it enough to get email, and internet search for things of interest. We even recently started Skyping. However, when I told her to use the laptop she would want to get an internet service plan to the tune of @$30 a month she thought I was nuts. It has since grown on her enough to accept the cost, but trying to sell the idea of another @$50 a month just so she can do something a VCR does for free....tough sell. Also complicating the picture is the fact that there is 6 TVs in the house and all but one has a VHS player attached. (Yes only one of them is viable for recording....together they all make up a historical path of 30+ years of VCRs as each one reached a certain stage of death and was retired to only play tapes in a distant room.)

So what to do:
Unfortunately SageTV is just out. Unless SageTV licenses start to become notably available on some 'black market' I don't see how it could even be a possiblity. Yes, there is the recent rumor of a Google media device. But who knows what it is, when we will see it, and who will be willing to support it/provide content.
Second, I considered sending her the 'abandon cable' route with something like a Boxee where she can use a Hulu/Netflix/playon subscription to get enough content to keep her satisfied. The catch here is a)there is the buy in cost. b)there is a transition curve from someone who is used to recording stuff to the concept of just searching and viewing it when you are ready, and c)honestly, I'm not comfortable myself to have made this transition to try talking her into it. I just can't say what the media market will look like in a year and which of these players will be there. Cable providers should be in the game for atleast another 5 years.
Many people seem to like XBMC. Honestly I haven't given it proper respect I'm not making any statement about the quality or feasiblity of XBMC. Simply, a)I have no desire to learn/deal with Linux(although I know it works on other OS as well), b)I know of no real extender option/solution. c)Given the learning curve I went through SageTV, I really didn't want to do that again, plus have to suport it for my mother.....ugg.
So where did I end up? Begrudgingly I built a Window7 MCE box. I'm not totally sold I want to go this route, but the deciding factors are: a)I had enough left over hardware that the buy in cost is low. b)It is a fairly straightforward UI and easy to show her how to use. c)An extender can come in the form of a craigslist netbook/xbox, or an inexpensive netbox. Furthermore she has her laptop from which she can take anywhere in house and access content. d)requires no change to her cable plan.

The bottom line to this story is : Why-O-WHY did you you sell SageTV?? Its a year later and still SageTV is the only viable solution for mine and many others' needs. We can only hope this new Google device is the SageTV - reborn solution we all have been waiting for.

[Fuzzy]

Don't reinvent the wheel.. a new VHS/DVD combo VCR is about $50...

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Don't reinvent the wheel.. a new VHS/DVD combo VCR is about $50...

They don't come with tuners anymore. At least very few did when I sold them a few years ago. The ones that did have tuners had digital tuners and were about $200. Pawn shops would be a good place to look. Garage sales.

[phelme]

WOW! cable's Moxi Utlra TV.

6 tuners, but only 500 GB's of storage??? I guess for the average user, that's enough.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by cat6man

I just found an interesting link that goes into more detail on Ceton's Q and echo that were announced at CES.

http://thedigitallifestyle.com/w/ind...indows-8-apps/


As I see it, the echo would take the place of my hd300s and the Q would take the place of my sageTV PC, STBs, HDHRs and HDPVRs

Now if the Q isn't too expensive, i save the cost of 3 STBs each month but do have to pay for a (single, or do you need 2?) multichannel cable card (not sure what fios charges for those)............hdhr and hdpvr are, of course, sunk costs (and have paid their way nicely, if i may say so).

i am in no rush to move off of sage7 as this really does what i want right now, but i see this as the challenge jeff/sage/google have to respond to.

1. cheap extender (hd300, echo)
2. premium content agnostic (i.e. cable card embedded, just works, replaces STBs and tuners with single box 6-tuner capability shared with all extenders)
3. expandable storage (Q claims a 2TB drive with usb3 and estata extension)


Ceton showed this at CES but only said '2012' for availability and 'nada yet' for pricing, so Jeff et al have some time it seems. Right now, I'll bet on Jeff/sage/google

Fios cable card is 3.99 a month.... much better then 6 HD STBs.... which are 8.99 or something each with no DVR.

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Fios cable card is 3.99 a month.... much better then 6 HD STBs.... which are 8.99 or something each with no DVR.

That'd be $9.99/mo for non-DVR STBs.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

That'd be $9.99/mo for non-DVR STBs.

My Mistake, I wish I didn't have the need to have 7tuners and only needed 4. or should I sell my 3 Colossus cards, Buy another Centon, and trade in my 3 STBs for another Cable Card? Then if Sage doesnt work out I would be ahead with WMC with 8 Tuners...

[flavius]

Just out of curiosity - what do you need seven tuners for?

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by flavius

Just out of curiosity - what do you need seven tuners for?

A lot of shows i wath are on at the same time and i work at night. And the GF records and watches her stuff too.

Originally Posted by flavius

Just out of curiosity - what do you need seven tuners for?

I only use all 7 once a week maybe twice, but its for all my favorite shows.

[spacecadet]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

That'd be $9.99/mo for non-DVR STBs.

Not quite true (at least in my area, Boston). Fios discounts every STB after the 1st.

I pay $15.99/mo for 2 non-DVR STB.

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by spacecadet

Not quite true (at least in my area, Boston). Fios discounts every STB after the 1st.

I pay $15.99/mo for 2 non-DVR STB.

Damn Frontier! (And even Verizon previously, I've always paid $9.99 for both since TV was first deployed to Oregon).

[spacecadet]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Damn Frontier! (And even Verizon previously, I've always paid $9.99 for both since TV was first deployed to Oregon).

Doh! Bummer. I think this promotion started sometime in the last 12 months, so it's a new deal since the Frontier split.

[hemicuda]

It's a shame FiOS isn't similar to IPTV. I'm stuck with OTA + analog, and/or HDPVR (if they weren't so finicky) with my provider.