Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[stanger89]

I thought they all did, I thought it was just that the high end ones were the only ones that could actually play a disc (as opposed to just a rip).

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

If there IS something you need that sage doesn't have, like cablecard support, than yes, THAT would be a reason to change... but if sage is already working, and you only want to move change for the sake of change, you might want to think about it before putting yourself and family through the changes needlessly.

You need to clarify this statement. Cablecard is supported by SageDCT for the copy freely channels, which for me is all but the premium channels like HBO.

I have looked at the alternatives and none of them come close to enticing me to sell off my extenders and switch. Sage is still far better than anything else out there. I am still looking, but not real hard.

Wayne

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well because there are a number of us interested in what's out there, and everything that's suggested has significant missing features. Like I said above, I'm guessing that given SageTV's limitations in specific areas, most people still using Sage are using it for the package and not for any one specific feature.

I think that's true, although I still don't see why we can't have a good discussion of the capabilities and limitations of other DVR/streaming software/hardware. I realize that for many of the people remaining on these forums wouldn't be satisfied with the alternatives, but for those that tried, I'd be interested to hear what seemed to work well and what didn't work well in those alternatives. I think I'm prepared to make different tradeoffs than others in this forum. I figure I already have to use a "two box solution" since I heavily stream Netflix on Roku boxes. I don't see a big problem with having to use a different box for media streaming than DVRing (though I certainly don't find it appealing either). I'm mostly just looking for similar functionality.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Seriously thinking of going to Satellite when the Sage EPG goes away. Has anyone looked at Directv's 5 tuner HR34 DVR ? Wondering if it can record 5 HD shows simultaneously, or some mix of HD and SD.

I was watching this for a long time--since it was called the HMC-something. Here's a good place for info, (yes, it can record 5 HD channels at once): http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=197609. I haven't used it or read any of the hands-on reports, though--no reason for me to overhaul the SageTV stuff just yet.

[amt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Unfortuately that's not been my experience with open source/community projects. It's seems much more a you've got to figure it out yourself.

As for Sage, it works fine, at this point I don't need any support and since they're not introducing any new software updates, they won't be breaking anything that needs support. Sage can run indefinitely like it is now.

I would not lump all open source projects in one. MythTV is not 100% automatic, but then again, I don't recall SageTV (server) being 100% hands off either when I installed it. There seems to be about the same amount of configuration for something like HD-PVR and HdHomeRun devices. Whenever I did have a question about MythTV, the email list has always been able to help.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Does MythTV support DVDs or Blu-rays? MKVs? (I'm asking seriously).

Yes (all of those), and it also plays my hd-dvd rips which my HD300 could not. It can also decode lossless tracks to hi-bit-rate LPCM, which HD300 also could not do (this may be not necessary for many, but I wanted it, and it was strange that it was missing in the HD300, as nearly every blu-ray player can do this with DTS-HD and TrueHD).

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well because there are a number of us interested in what's out there, and everything that's suggested has significant missing features. Like I said above, I'm guessing that given SageTV's limitations in specific areas, most people still using Sage are using it for the package and not for any one specific feature.

What features in particular do you find that are missing in these alternatives? If you can give a list, perhaps I can confirm if its there or not in MythTV.

[wayner]

Missing in some,or all, Sage alternatives:

Extenders that give the same experience as a PC
PC clients
Support for multiple HD-PVRs/Colossuses
BR rip playback
Place shifting
Windows servers and clients

[amt]

Extenders that give the same experience as a PC -no mythtv extenders that I am aware of. Then again, it's not like there's a future in extenders for SageTV either.

PC clients -yes, for Linux, Windows, and MacOS. SageTV sadly did not complete v7 for MacOS, so all my Mac hardware never worked with my v7 Sage setup. I have MythTV clients working perfectly on all my Macs.

Support for multiple HD-PVRs/Colossuses -For HD-PVRs, yes (I use 2 and there is no limit). Colossuses are not supported on Linux.

BR rip playback -yes, works perfectly fine for me

Place shifting -if you are referring to place shifting in-progress recordings, and pausing live TV, yes, works perfectly on all of my clients. MythTV is true client-server just like SageTV

Windows servers and clients -Windows servers reportedly only support HD-homeRun. MythTV supports Windows clients, but I do not have any experience with it.

[Bagal]

I was a long time user of MediaPortal before switching to SageTV around Sep'10 so I can probably provide some decent feedback on it and I still keep an eye on the latest developments.

Overall I very much enjoyed using MediaPortal but there were a number of reasons for switching:
Stability issues: specifically with the client, I believe the last couple of releases have significantly addressed this but I couldn't say (note that I had no trouble with the TV server and never missed a recording).
Lack of HW extenders
Not a true server/client architecture: the TV part is server/client but everything else is local to the client, so the video, music and photo libraries have to be maintained on each client. There is a way to share the client databases from a central location on the server but I found that this just introduces lag on the client and could be unreliable. Note as well that I said 'databases', unlike Sage, which stores all media in one central DB, the MediaPortal client makes use of several SQLite DB's and plugins can also create their own DBs (such as MPTVSeries and MovingPictures), this means that you can't create views across your entire collection, though it does have other benefits such as if one DB becomes corrupt you can just delete it and recreate without losing everything else.
Plugins: The plugin system introduced in Sage v7 is superb, MP has tried to improve the installation of plugins but it's still external to the main app.

To address some of the things I've seen mentioned in this thread:
External configuration:To me this is actually a strength, especially when it comes to configuring Tuners and channels as I never did get on with Sage's channel setup. Those that dislike this though will be pleased to know that there's a project to incorporate this into the GUI.
BR rip playback: I think MP has had this ability via a plugin for a while, similar to how Sage works with BR rips, however there is a project to enable some native BR support - see here for details.
Place shifting: MP doesn't support this out of the box but there are some plugins that enable this and there's an ongoing project to unify some of these web based plugins into a common system, see below...
Web interface: MP has had a few options over the years but it's all been a bit disjointed, probably the best option for managing recordings, viewing the guide etc was to use the ForTheRecord plugin, however if I was using MP now I'd be looking at trying this project out.
Support for multiple HD-PVRs/Colossuses: I believe MP is one of the few DVR's that does support the Colossus.
MediaPortal's TV support is experimental at best: I have to say I completely disagree with this statement, however I am aware that support for US TV tuners isn't great, but that's mainly due to a lack of US users and US devs. European tuner support is great and the TV server has had the ability to tune/record multiple channels from the same transponder for years, when I only had 2 tuners I did a test and was recording 10 channels at the same time
Favourite/Series link recordings: MP's recording options are pretty limiting, for this reason I used to use the ForTheRecord plugin purely for its scheduling ability, which can do everything Sage can do and then some.

This has turned into a longer post than I was expecting and I could probably keep going , if anyone has anything they want to know about MP that I haven't covered then feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

For the foreseable future I've got no reasons to switch away from SageTV as it does everything I want it to but I'll still be keeping an eye on the options...

[drewg]

Originally Posted by emveepee

That's a ridiculous statement, and it starts with an assumption that SageTV was the best to begin with. Many alternatives

For many of us, SageTV was the best. That's why we bought it, and that's why we're still here.

Speaking for myself, the "irreplaceable" feature I need is a linux server with hardware extenders. That just doesn't exist outside of SageTV & the HDx00 extenders.

Drew

[drewg]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Now that's a bummer. Especially when the WD extenders plays just about any format you throw at it.

Gerry

There might be hope with the realtek based rtd1073 boxes (Asus Oh!Play, Patriot Box Office, etc). Apparently there's a guy who's written a very minimal MythTV client interface for it which supports EPG w/scheduling, playing recordings w/comskip, and deleting recordings. He's very secretive about the project; probably does not want to support a lot of people. See http://www.patriotmemory.com/forums/...p/t-6617.html?

Drew

[ChePazzo]

Originally Posted by drewg

Speaking for myself, the "irreplaceable" feature I need is a linux server with hardware extenders. That just doesn't exist outside of SageTV & the HDx00 extenders.

For me as well.

Does anyone know if there has been any movement on the SageTV Boxee App?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Bagal

BR rip playback: I think MP has had this ability via a plugin for a while, similar to how Sage works with BR rips, however there is a project to enable some native BR support - see here for details.

Sage doesn't need any plugins for BD playback, I do it all the time without using anything that doesn't ship with SageTV, though I use extenders exclusively so it's a little easier that way. The last thing I want is to have to launch a BD software to get Blu-ray support.

MediaPortal's TV support is experimental at best

: I have to say I completely disagree with this statement, however I am aware that support for US TV tuners isn't great, but that's mainly due to a lack of US users and US devs. European tuner support is great and the TV server has had the ability to tune/record multiple channels from the same transponder for years, when I only had 2 tuners I did a test and was recording 10 channels at the same time

The stability issues, need for an external TV app, external configuration, multiple databases, and limited recording options are why I say it's experimental at best. Aside from WMC, MythTV and NPVR, it seems like TV support in all these "community" projects is an afterthought that's far from being completed.

I really keep coming back to the thought that the DirecTV HR34 and some Dunes may be the closest to what I have now with just SageTV and it's extenders.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Aside from WMC, MythTV and NPVR, it seems like TV support in all these "community" projects is an afterthought that's far from being completed.

IWhy is that? Is it really hard, or do the folks who like these projects just not care about integrating TV/PVR functionality?

For the rest of my family the TV doesn't matter so much as they generally watch prerecorded shows/movies that could be retrieved from other sources or even transferred over from Sage but I watch sports so I need it and I also need the ability to watch in near real-time as I watch currently recording shows.

[stanger89]

I think it's twofold, first I think they largely don't care, this seems to be the case with XBMC, there doesn't seem to be enough XMBC community interest to get PVR functionality pulled into the main branch.

The other side is something that seems to be a problem with a lot of "community" projects, and that is since they're volunteer efforts by a few developers, they get developed to the point where it works well enough for the developer, and then interest is lost in making it more generally usable. Stuff like making configuration simple/robust, they just never get to "finished" because the developers (understandably mind you, I'm the same way when I've developed stuff for Sage) get the stuff they want done, and then move on to more "fun" features, rather than the mundane things like making it easy to set up or documenting it well.

Frankly I think Myth falls into this too, but since it was a PVR from the start it's in better shape than a lot of the media center apps that have added TV support later.

[Bagal]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Sage doesn't need any plugins for BD playback, I do it all the time without using anything that doesn't ship with SageTV, though I use extenders exclusively so it's a little easier that way. The last thing I want is to have to launch a BD software to get Blu-ray support.

Perhaps I should have explained this a little better, you don't have to launch external software to get Blu-Ray support, the plugin in question gives you a choice of the titles to play from the rip/disc (same as SageTV does), once you've selected it, the internal MP player will be responsible for playing it, so it's not really that much different to what Sage provides IMO.

Originally Posted by stanger89

The stability issues, need for an external TV app, external configuration, multiple databases, and limited recording options are why I say it's experimental at best. Aside from WMC, MythTV and NPVR, it seems like TV support in all these "community" projects is an afterthought that's far from being completed.

You know, I think a lot of this is just based on point of view, for instance I could look at the SageTV service as being an external app to the SageTV client even though you could have them running on the same box...

[Bagal]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The other side is something that seems to be a problem with a lot of "community" projects, and that is since they're volunteer efforts by a few developers, they get developed to the point where it works well enough for the developer, and then interest is lost in making it more generally usable. Stuff like making configuration simple/robust, they just never get to "finished" because the developers (understandably mind you, I'm the same way when I've developed stuff for Sage) get the stuff they want done, and then move on to more "fun" features, rather than the mundane things like making it easy to set up or documenting it well.

I generally agree with what you're saying here but again it is partly about point of view since as I said previously I don't like Sage's TV setup and much prefer MediaPortal's...

MediaPortal's documentation has come a long way in the past year, they've really worked hard on getting the wiki up to scratch and it's much better than it was. I think they can do better when it comes to first time setup and installing plugins but they are moving in the right direction.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by ChePazzo

Does anyone know if there has been any movement on the SageTV Boxee App?

There's still the thread in the Extender section of the forums. But, the people working on it said that the project is on hold indefinitely. They got a proof of concept mostly working, and that's enough for them. I think they're convinced they could have a halfway decent extender out of the Boxee Box if they really wanted to, but there's just not sufficient interest- either from the developers or from the SageTV user community.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by reggie14

There's still the thread in the Extender section of the forums. But, the people working on it said that the project is on hold indefinitely. They got a proof of concept mostly working, and that's enough for them. I think they're convinced they could have a halfway decent extender out of the Boxee Box if they really wanted to, but there's just not sufficient interest- either from the developers or from the SageTV user community.

I'm much more interested in getting plex to act as a front end. Windows support isn't all that great yet, but I like the software quite a bit so far. I'd be much happier if Netflix would work, but that's another story...

[wayner]

I agree that Plex looks better and is available on far more platforms - Boxee is going to their own hardware only. Plex has clients for Mac, Win, iOS and Android. Plex also works on Roku and on some TVs - although it may not playback all file types. And it looks great on my iPad.

PiX64 if working on a metadata scraper to pull all of the metadata out of Sage and into Plex for TV recordings. Once that is working then half of the battle is solved, assuming that your Plex client can play back the files. You can't schedule, recordings, etc but there are lots of other ways to do that, including using web and mobile web plugins.

[wayner]

Here is the post on the Plex Scanner http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...&postcount=202