SageTV Community  

Go Back   SageTV Community > Hardware Support > Hardware Support
Forum Rules FAQs Community Downloads Today's Posts Search

Notices

Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:00 PM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
Win 7 64 bit and Firewire 1394 channel change

are there still no apps that run on a 64 bit install for set-top box channel change?
is it a limitation of the app, the OS, or the set-top box?
I thought W7 64 bit ran 32 bit apps ok, no?
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:11 PM
macsupergeek macsupergeek is offline
Sage Advanced User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 161
I believe its a driver issue, that 64 bit doesn't have firewire drivers to address the boxes for the app to see. So I guess its an OS issue then.
__________________
SERVER: Dual Core Xeon 3.0GHz 5160, 8gb RAM, Win7 x64, SageTV 9.0.13.536 w/ BMT, WebUI, OpenDCT, Java 1.70_79
TUNERS: 2 x Ceton PCIe InfinitiTV - FIOS
STORAGE: UNRAID - 8tb for archived shows, DVDs, pictures and music
CLIENTS: 2 x HD200s, 2 x HD300
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:38 PM
sleonard's Avatar
sleonard sleonard is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,506
W7-x64 can run x32 applications but drivers must be 64 bit. There are no 64-bit drivers for set-top boxes.

S
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:52 PM
xred's Avatar
xred xred is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsupergeek View Post
I believe its a driver issue, that 64 bit doesn't have firewire drivers to address the boxes for the app to see. So I guess its an OS issue then.
Anyone tried third party drivers for X64?

http://www.unibrain.com/download/download.asp
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:40 PM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
for some reason, this software question has been moved to the hardware section, but don't let that confuse you with regards to answering or offering suggestions - it's a software issue from what I can see, aka drivers and OS.
cheers
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:52 PM
Taddeusz Taddeusz is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Yukon, OK
Posts: 3,919
The crux of the matter is that the person that originally put the firewire recording stuff together, Tim Moore, vanished and so official development on those drivers and tools ceased. I don't think he actually wrote the drivers though. I believe there has been talk about someone writing 64-bit drivers but so far there has been nothing done in that department.

I suspect the actual interest in creating 64-bit drivers is due to the number of people who would be using them. Like it or not we are a minuscule minority of all computer users. Anyone writing the drivers would probably be doing it on their own time. Just doesn't make a lot of sense for most people who have the knowledge for the task.
__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3
Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver
Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-03-2011, 03:03 PM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taddeusz View Post
The crux of the matter is that the person that originally put the firewire recording stuff together, Tim Moore, vanished and so official development on those drivers and tools ceased. I don't think he actually wrote the drivers though. I believe there has been talk about someone writing 64-bit drivers but so far there has been nothing done in that department.

I suspect the actual interest in creating 64-bit drivers is due to the number of people who would be using them. Like it or not we are a minuscule minority of all computer users. Anyone writing the drivers would probably be doing it on their own time. Just doesn't make a lot of sense for most people who have the knowledge for the task.
sounds like reality. If I was software inclines I'd do it, but I do not speak code
Thanks
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-03-2011, 03:57 PM
panteragstk's Avatar
panteragstk panteragstk is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 3,312
Does the stb have active usb ports? You might be able to use serial tuning if it does. I don't know of anything other than drectv that can use it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other stb's that have that ability.
__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA
Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60
Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u
Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-03-2011, 04:27 PM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by panteragstk View Post
Does the stb have active usb ports? You might be able to use serial tuning if it does. I don't know of anything other than drectv that can use it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other stb's that have that ability.
yes, it does have a USB port. Cox Cable Motorola DCH3200. No idea if it is active for any use
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-03-2011, 06:32 PM
sleonard's Avatar
sleonard sleonard is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,506
If memory serves me correctly, the drivers were extracted from a Japanese application called CapDVHS and were written by Toshiba. Tim packaged those drivers and wrote the other utilities to make the drivers useful for people like us. The details are now fuzzy but that's close to how it happened. If 64 bit drivers are ever going to happen someone will have to start from scratch and hack the communications and control commands from the set top boxes. I'd love to try but have no idea how to even get started.

S
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-03-2011, 07:07 PM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 7,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by panteragstk View Post
Does the stb have active usb ports? You might be able to use serial tuning if it does. I don't know of anything other than drectv that can use it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other stb's that have that ability.
That depends on how you define active. I believe the USB ports on my SA/Cisco boxes are powered so they can charge your iPod. But they can't do much else. Apparently they were put there to allow you to use a keyboard as these STBs were supposed to be capable of email - hence the "mail" indicator on the boxes. But I don't know if that was ever implemented.

I built a new Sage server late last year and the only reason that I used 32 bit Windows was for FireWire channel changing.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:05 PM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
That depends on how you define active. I believe the USB ports on my SA/Cisco boxes are powered so they can charge your iPod. But they can't do much else. Apparently they were put there to allow you to use a keyboard as these STBs were supposed to be capable of email - hence the "mail" indicator on the boxes. But I don't know if that was ever implemented.

I built a new Sage server late last year and the only reason that I used 32 bit Windows was for FireWire channel changing.
yup, same here. Just dreaming of that extra ram. Guess the dream will have to continue
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:01 AM
panteragstk's Avatar
panteragstk panteragstk is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 3,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
That depends on how you define active. I believe the USB ports on my SA/Cisco boxes are powered so they can charge your iPod. But they can't do much else. Apparently they were put there to allow you to use a keyboard as these STBs were supposed to be capable of email - hence the "mail" indicator on the boxes. But I don't know if that was ever implemented.

I built a new Sage server late last year and the only reason that I used 32 bit Windows was for FireWire channel changing.
Active meaning functioning fully. That is why I said that. I know that most ports on cable stb's are inactive. I don't know why firewire would be active and usb wouldn't, but I don't expect cable companies to understand logic.
__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA
Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60
Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u
Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-04-2011, 11:43 AM
sleonard's Avatar
sleonard sleonard is offline
Sage Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,506
Because firewire ports are required by law to be active and functioning. There are TV's and DVHS machines that have firewire inputs.

S
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-02-2014, 09:57 AM
wayner wayner is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 7,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleonard View Post
Because firewire ports are required by law to be active and functioning.
In case any other Canadians are around - note that this isn't the case in Canada. In this instance the CRTC is not as consumer friendly as the FCC. The same for CableCARD.

I believe the law in the US is also interpreted to mean that cable cos have to offer "A" box that has active and functioning firewire ports but they don't necessarily have to have them on all of their STBs.
__________________
New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA
Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA
Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-02-2014, 11:34 AM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner View Post
In case any other Canadians are around - note that this isn't the case in Canada. In this instance the CRTC is not as consumer friendly as the FCC. The same for CableCARD.

I believe the law in the US is also interpreted to mean that cable cos have to offer "A" box that has active and functioning firewire ports but they don't necessarily have to have them on all of their STBs.
yes, that is the case in the U.S., at least until the cable-co's lobbyists can have it changed. Didn't realize Canada would not mandate the same thing.
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-02-2014, 01:04 PM
texneus texneus is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 279
That agrees with my recolection of how the 32 bit drivers came to be. Since there is no source code the 64 bit drivers cannot be created without significant effort. I also recall someone looking into signing costs required for 64 bit drivers and the cost was prohibitive.

In all honesty, firewire's days are pretty much done. It never was mainstream on the PC and Mac have moved on To Thunderbolt. When I bought a new motherboard ~6 months ago the number of Haswell boards with "firewire on board" was exactly null. While "firewire on board" was never exactly common, it wasn't something that required a lot of looking either. I also haven't seen a TV offered with a 1394 input in over 10 years.

On my new build I've moved to a USBUIRT partly out of concern that firewire may be absent in future STBs but also partly because I'm no longer restricted to 32 bit Windows. The USBUIRT isn't as fast as firewire, but seems a lot less hit or miss than the WMC blasters I used in the past.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:04 AM
c5davey c5davey is offline
Sage User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by texneus View Post
In all honesty, firewire's days are pretty much done. It never was mainstream on the PC and Mac have moved on To Thunderbolt. When I bought a new motherboard ~6 months ago the number of Haswell boards with "firewire on board" was exactly null. While "firewire on board" was never exactly common, it wasn't something that required a lot of looking either. I also haven't seen a TV offered with a 1394 input in over 10 years.
Just in case anyone is interested, there is still one Haswell m/b with "firewire on board", it is the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H. The Z87 chipset has now been replaced with the Z97 chipset and none of the latest m/b have firewire. I'm debating whether to pick up this m/b as a backup or just get the latest m/b when the time comes and get a pci/pci-e firewire card since I will still be using SageTV for years to come.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-04-2014, 05:17 AM
Tomahawk51's Avatar
Tomahawk51 Tomahawk51 is offline
Sage Aficionado
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
yup, same here. Just dreaming of that extra ram. Guess the dream will have to continue
I started using "fancy cache" to leverage some ram in my 32bit Win7 system that otherwise wasn't being used.

If you search around, you'll find Fuzzy talking about that solution (and answering some questions from me about it).

Seems to not have impacted my stability...but I didn't do performance tests to see impact either (just assumed).
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-04-2014, 08:49 AM
tvmaster2's Avatar
tvmaster2 tvmaster2 is offline
SageTVaholic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tarana
Posts: 4,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by c5davey View Post
Just in case anyone is interested, there is still one Haswell m/b with "firewire on board", it is the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H. The Z87 chipset has now been replaced with the Z97 chipset and none of the latest m/b have firewire. I'm debating whether to pick up this m/b as a backup or just get the latest m/b when the time comes and get a pci/pci-e firewire card since I will still be using SageTV for years to come.
I have three Gigsbyte boards, and on AS Rock, all with FireWire. It still is useful for lots of things, mainly video cameras...
__________________
Sage 9 server = Gigabyte AMD quad-core - 4 gigs - integrated ATI HD4200 chipset - SSD boot, Hitachi Deskstar show drives. HD-PVR - Colossus - Win7 32 bit. HD200/300’s networked. HDHomerun tuner. "If you've given up on Weird Al, you've given up on life" - Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support DFA Hardware Support 2173 10-25-2019 12:00 PM
Firewire channel change NoodleNT Hardware Support 9 04-08-2011 12:58 PM
Comcast RNG110 IEEE 1394/Firewire Windows 7 64-bit Drivers/Software tgcujo Hardware Support 3 01-30-2011 06:46 PM
Need Help with Win 7 32x Firewire Channel-Change Only rrhorer Hardware Support 2 06-03-2010 02:25 PM
Record from 1394 firewire out on hdtv tuner box? JohnnyCapslock Hardware Support 0 11-16-2003 07:16 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2003-2005 SageTV, LLC. All rights reserved.