Power supply questions

[panteragstk]

I have a dilemma. I'm going to get a new server soon and I just calculated what wattage I'll need to run the system reliably. I have a good corsair 400w psu now, but the new server is much higher end and I'll need upwards of 550w. I have a 650w psu in my gaming computer that I've had for about 6 years now and it has been great. My thinking is to move the 650w psu to the server and get a new psu for my gaming rig for when I finally upgrade it. The dilemma is what psu to get for the gaming rig. Do I get the bare minimum I'll need for the parts I've spec'd out or do I go all out and get the future proof psu that I'll be able to keep for 10 years (if it lasts that long). I'd be looking at a $100 difference so it isn't that much, but it will be overkill for a long time. Now overkill is just another word for headroom so I'm not worried about having too much. I'll just be mad at myself for not getting enough of one for when I can afford to max out a 1000w+ psu with higher end stuff.

The next question is I plan to eventually get a norco 24 bay enclosure that I can build my unraid server in. I've used multiple power supply calcualtors that are telling me that 650w will be plenty. What do you guys think about that? Does anyone on this forum even have a system that big (or at least dealt with one)?

Thanks ahead of time.

[jptheripper]

my current htpc is

125w cpu
2x DVD IDE drives
12x Sata Hard drives
4 tuner cards
3 usb devices
1 very low end graphics card.

I have a 950w that i think is overkill (got it in a combo deal, otherwise it would have been the 650w corsair).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182097

i really think unless you are running the highend graphics cards the 650w is more than sufficient. Corsair all the way.

Really in a headless pc the cpu is the main power draw. harddrives arent that bad compared to a graphics card, even in high numbers,.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

my current htpc is

125w cpu
2x DVD IDE drives
12x Sata Hard drives
4 tuner cards
3 usb devices
1 very low end graphics card.

I have a 950w that i think is overkill (got it in a combo deal, otherwise it would have been the 650w corsair).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182097

i really think unless you are running the highend graphics cards the 650w is more than sufficient. Corsair all the way.

Really in a headless pc the cpu is the main power draw. harddrives arent that bad compared to a graphics card, even in high numbers,.

I figure that the 650w I plan to put in my server will be perfect for it. I think that a 910w pcp&c I'm looking at will be perfect for my gaming rig. The only worry I have is I overclock quite a bit so my 130w cpu goes up quite a bit higher. I just don't want to skimp on the psu. I'll have to take a look at that corsair as it is priced pretty well.

[JetreL]

If you are not planning on running an over abundant amount of extra hardware (fans, hard drives, etc) and/or a massive video card then a 650w should be fine for you. Anything that you do get make sure it’s rated 80%+. That will save you money in the long run and hopefully assure you consistent performance. Also don’t skimp on your power supply!!! It’s actually one of the most important parts in your computer. I have had tons of hardware fail prematurely because the power supply wasn’t providing consistent power. You should be pretty safe with Corsair.

[Spectrum]

JetreL gives good advice
Power supplies (even 80%+) are only truly efficient when running in their upper rated bands. If you go way overkill and put a 1kW psu in a system that is only pulling 200W, you will lose quite a bit to in-efficiency. The amount lost would, of course, depend on the psu in question.

Another thing to keep in mind if you are planning to re-purpose a PSU from a gaming rig to an unRaid rig is that for lots of HDDs you want a PSU with a single 12V rail and most gaming PSUs have 2 or 3 12V rails with most of the power handling capability dedicated to the video card connectors. Make sure you check your specs, you don't want to pop your PSU with 20+ drives spinning up and loading down a secondary rail.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

JetreL gives good advice
Power supplies (even 80%+) are only truly efficient when running in their upper rated bands. If you go way overkill and put a 1kW psu in a system that is only pulling 200W, you will lose quite a bit to in-efficiency. The amount lost would, of course, depend on the psu in question.

Another thing to keep in mind if you are planning to re-purpose a PSU from a gaming rig to an unRaid rig is that for lots of HDDs you want a PSU with a single 12V rail and most gaming PSUs have 2 or 3 12V rails with most of the power handling capability dedicated to the video card connectors. Make sure you check your specs, you don't want to pop your PSU with 20+ drives spinning up and loading down a secondary rail.

That's what I'm worried about. It has 4 rails (which when I bought it I didn't know as much as I do now) so If I can evenly space the drives it should be ok. Or am I dreaming? I am looking for a single rail psu only. My old gaming psu is a good psu, but it was built before the days of 80+ certification.

EDIT: I'm looking for a new one for my gaming rig and the one I've found is a 950w corsair that is 80+ bronze certified with a single 12v rail. I don't understand why they would have seperate rails in the first place. you can't drain a rail if there is one massive rail (well you can, but it is less likely if you got the correct psu).

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by JetreL

If you are not planning on running an over abundant amount of extra hardware (fans, hard drives, etc) and/or a massive video card then a 650w should be fine for you. Anything that you do get make sure it’s rated 80%+. That will save you money in the long run and hopefully assure you consistent performance. Also don’t skimp on your power supply!!! It’s actually one of the most important parts in your computer. I have had tons of hardware fail prematurely because the power supply wasn’t providing consistent power. You should be pretty safe with Corsair.

I learned that a wimpy psu will be the worst mistake you can make many years ago when I had a socket A (462) system and the motherboard and psu combo I chose (high end psu and mobo) just happen to be incompatible because the psu had a wimpy 5vsb rail and it caused a huge amount of issues. Funny thing is that psu has been powering one computer or another since then so it is about 9 years old or older. It will be decommissioned once I get my new gaming psu and my server gets the gaming psu (which is about 5 years old).

Should I be looking at replacing them all?

EDIT: I lied. I just checked my psu and it was one of the early 80+ models. This is it (soon to be server psu).

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

That's what I'm worried about. It has 4 rails (which when I bought it I didn't know as much as I do now) so If I can evenly space the drives it should be ok. Or am I dreaming?

It can be done, but it would require cutting connectors and connecting new ones. The problem is you probably have 2+ rails dedicated to the video card power connectors. You would have to remove those connectors and attach connectors that you could use on hard drives. It's not for the faint hearted and if your not familiar with electronics it's a bad idea. Repercussions could be damage to the power supply, damage to the hard drives, or damage to you

Originally Posted by panteragstk

EDIT: I'm looking for a new one for my gaming rig and the one I've found is a 950w corsair that is 80+ bronze certified with a single 12v rail. I don't understand why they would have seperate rails in the first place. you can't drain a rail if there is one massive rail (well you can, but it is less likely if you got the correct psu).

The theory is that by isolating the video card's power from the rest of the system nothing will interfere with your video performance. It's also a marketing gimmick "More rails are better, charge more money!"

[SHS]

Top Brands to look at
1: SeaSonic
2: Corsair
3: PC Power & Cooling
Note 2, 3 are made by the same manufacturers SeaSonic
4: OCZ
5: Silverstone or Antec

panteragstk what going be you server spec?.
You don't biggest bad a$$ power supply unless you are running the mid/highend graphics card.
450/500watter is more then enought today avg sagetv server with very lowend and most on board graphics device.

[jptheripper]

Yeah mine has four rails to. Bummer. 2x 6pin and 2x 8pin unused. Wish there were adapters.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by SHS

Top Brands to look at
1: SeaSonic
2: Corsair
3: PC Power & Cooling
Note 2, 3 are made by the same manufacturers SeaSonic
4: OCZ
5: Silverstone or Antec

panteragstk what going be you server spec?.
You don't biggest bad a$$ power supply unless you are running the mid/highend graphics card.
450/500watter is more then enought today avg sagetv server with very lowend and most on board graphics device.

Thanks. The 950w corsair for $150 is what I'm going for with the gaming rig. It will need the power as I plan to get some hefty overclocking on the cpu as well as some power hungy video cards.

As for the server: I get what you guys are saying about the multiple rails now. I had forgotten that two were dedicated to video. I have no problem ripping a psu apart and rewiring it (I'm finishing my EE degree so if I can't handle that I have no business in my degree), but I think I'll just get a new one. The corsair psu's I've been using have been rock solid so I'll just get a higher wattage one for the new server. I have a 400w now, but I plan to add quite a few more drives than I have now. I'm at 7 now and have the capacity to go to 12. I think 650w would be good enough for the 24 drive server I plan to build in the future so that is what I'll shoot for. I like to future-proof as much as I can. I don't know how much to trust the power supply calculators out there, but I'm at the 400w psu's limits with what I have and will be over when I get the new parts so 650w should be perfect. Probably.

[d2tw4all]

What are you intending this server to do that you need all this power, tell me not just SageTV functions? I'm considering going virtual for sage to SAVE power, forget that you need enough PSU for this server, do the math on how much running that sucker 24x7 is going to cost you in electricity? I was there at one time, had a huge rack mount setup with RAID, dual redundant PSU, etc but the sucker was costing me $60/month JUST POWERED ON! One box. Nowadays I'm looking for ways to REDUCE power, trying to build ESX boxes on 1U pizza box servers that draw under 40 Watts idle, etc. Why waste all that energy and money!

Tom

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by d2tw4all

What are you intending this server to do that you need all this power, tell me not just SageTV functions? I'm considering going virtual for sage to SAVE power, forget that you need enough PSU for this server, do the math on how much running that sucker 24x7 is going to cost you in electricity? I was there at one time, had a huge rack mount setup with RAID, dual redundant PSU, etc but the sucker was costing me $60/month JUST POWERED ON! One box. Nowadays I'm looking for ways to REDUCE power, trying to build ESX boxes on 1U pizza box servers that draw under 40 Watts idle, etc. Why waste all that energy and money!

Tom

Thanks for the concern. The setup I'm going to build will actually draw less power than my current setup as the psu will be more efficient. That and I will be able to ditch a very old inefficient psu that needs to be retired. I recycle parts into new machines as much as I can.

Idle power for the new cpu vs the old will be at least 40watts lower with the new parts. Load will be almost identical. So that will save money. Combine that with the more efficient psu and consumptions should go down even more. I understand the need for eficient power, but the system I'm getting will draw about 80w idle from what I'm reading. I'm going to get a kill-a-watt and find out for sure. My i3 system hardly consumes a thing so a better psu will help that situation as well as that is the system that has a ~11 year old psu that is massive overkill for the system, but it is the only extra I had when the system was built. I would use a 1u server if I could, but my space requirements won't allow that. Once I go to the unraid setup I plan to use (in the future) I will be using a lower power server to save energy.

To answer your question about this server being for sage only the answer is no. It will be running a full HA software so I'm buying for the future. Plus the reason for the i5 750 is my brother already owns the system and wants to upgrade so I said I'd buy it from him so he can go the sandy bridge route.

[wayner]

I would think that even a 400W PS would be plenty. A modern CPU, even a fast one uses 100W tops and that includes video if you get a Sandy Bridge - and why wouldn't you? The i5-2500K uses a max of 86W under load if you are using the onboard GPU.

And hard drives use less than 10W each, don't they. Even leaving buffer space for tuners, etc, isn't even 400W overkill?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by wayner

I would think that even a 400W PS would be plenty. A modern CPU, even a fast one uses 100W tops and that includes video if you get a Sandy Bridge - and why wouldn't you? The i5-2500K uses a max of 86W under load if you are using the onboard GPU.

And hard drives use less than 10W each, don't they. Even leaving buffer space for tuners, etc, isn't even 400W overkill?

I would get sandy bridge, but my brother wants to upgrade so he gets sandy, I get i5 750. Almost the same power consumption and more power than I can use.

As far as 400w being overkill. I have no clue. Hence the original question. If 400 is good then I don't need a new psu as the corsair 400w I have will work great. I'll have to get a kill-a-watt to see what is really going on.

[panteragstk]

Here are 3 calculators that have the exact same config and have 3 different numbers. That is why I'm confused.

[jptheripper]

gee, the highest one is from the company that sells psu's. LOL

All that aside, this is one area you really dont want to skimp, especially for $20 or so. If the psu doesnt work, nothing works. And when it doesnt work it can be nasty to troubleshoot.

Based on those calculators, id get a 550w and call it a day.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

gee, the highest one is from the company that sells psu's. LOL

All that aside, this is one area you really dont want to skimp, especially for $20 or so. If the psu doesnt work, nothing works. And when it doesnt work it can be nasty to troubleshoot.

Based on those calculators, id get a 550w and call it a day.

Yeah. I don't trust newegg's calculator at all. It's so much higher it is kind of stupid. The lowest is one I've use for years and it has never failed me, but it is easy to raise the number depending on certain hard drive types and everything else. I'm going to check and see the price between 550w and 650w. If it is only $10-$20 I'll go with the higher model.

EDIT: I just checked newegg and 550w and 650w are the same price from the same series that corsair makes. Odd.

[SHS]

The best to check is eXtreme Power Supply Calculator or Thermaltake Power Supply Calculator which one in same Calculator.
panteragstk keep in mind Sale and Rebate there is diff VX vs TX Series how ever for best value I go with TX that you cover for future upgrade
CX Builder Series is lower wattage (below 500w) Very Low end or on board video card
VX Value Series is lower wattage (below 550w) Low end or on board video card
TX Enthusiast Series is higher wattage (higher than 650w) better for mid range video card
HX Highend Series is higher wattage (higher than 600w) and modular for Mid range to High End Video and SLI/Crossfire multiple-GPU configurations
GS Gaming Series (higher than 600w) Mid range to High End Video
AX Professional Series (higher than 750w) and modular for Mid range to High End Video and SLI/Crossfire multiple-GPU configurations

[panteragstk]

Oddly enough the 550w is a VX and the 650w is a TX and the price on both is $89.99. I could pay $10 more for the newer TX model in 650w. The only difference I can see is the newer model is Bronze certified instead of just 80+. I think $10 is worth it for a newer model.