SageTV performance tweaks: What do you do to gain extra SageTV performance?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mkanet

-Mounting/dismounting virtual blu-ray discs (ISO format) on the fly (Virtual Clone drive dependency)

Well I don't waste my time with ISOs so that's one down .

-Playing radio stations on the extender (which has to initialize/start my hardware based loopback TV Tuner) for Slimplayer to work. It looks like Squeezebox server in general also improved marginally.

Nor do I do that.

-Changing channels on my R5000 boxes and streaming (this has dramatically improved). I'm not sure how, but it went from taking sometimes taking over 2 seconds down to less than a second.

Haven't noticed any difference there.

-Jetty responsiveness when displaying a SageTV Webserver Guide with hundreds of channel logos. It just pops up on fast workstations on my lan as if it was in cache.

Nor here.

Did you happen to do a fresh, from-scratch SageTV install at the same time you installed the SSD? Because I did a fresh windows install, but I kept my wiz.bin (I've got what like six and a half years of history I don't want lost), that could be a difference.

[heffneil]

Boy this went from a good idea to a huge debate. I am using an SSD with my WMC and I Have to say the performance is amazing. Boot times are unreal and the SSD in my laptop is great. People even said the macbook Air's run very well because of the SSD alone.

Anyway I like the idea of talking about performance tweaks but lets stop debating on the SSD's please

[mkanet]

Yeah, I agree... I probably should have said SSD was the single best improvement for my entire "setup"; which affects several addons for sageTV significantly (at least in my case).

I'm actually more interested in hearing about other people's experiences that helped improve sageTV performance (indirectly or directly). Such as, your tip to add lots of RAM for 64 bit OS's or someone else's advice in disabling real-time antivirus protection on the server (if server is not used as a workstation and feeling a little daring), increasing java heap size, etc.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I think the problem was labeling the thread SageTV performance tweaks, and then listing the SSD as the single best improvement - when the SSD, as mentioned many times, doesn't affect SageTV performance at all.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by heffneil

Anyway I like the idea of talking about performance tweaks but lets stop debating on the SSD's please

Here is my list of what I do that helps and I have no spinning arrows on my clients at all

• Make sure Fanart is cached locally if plugin doesn't do it already (most do but double check hugest gain you will get using fanart)
• Make sure min of 4gb of ram and a decent video ram as well.
• Make sure heap is at min 1gb
• Turn off any background tasks that are running especially if it is a dedicated sage box. Remove any virus software or run someting lightweight
• Make sure you have a good gb network connection and that all connections are properly terminated use a tester!
• Increase your cache limit and cap in the sagetv properties file (how much cache sagetv will use before dumping some.)
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.

As for extenders

• Ensure good network connection preferably gb switch feeding from a gb server (even though it is only 10/100 especially if using multiple hd300s I run 5 currently)
• Increase your servers sagetv cache and cap limit see above
• Make sure min 4gb of ram and 1gb min heap (sometimes more)
• Make sure background process aren't killing your performance (ie multiple comm skips or such done on the server if the server is busy it can't render your ui for extenders)
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.
  

[jayman]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Here is my list of what I do that helps and I have no spinning arrows on my clients at all

• Make sure Fanart is cached locally if plugin doesn't do it already (most do but double check hugest gain you will get using fanart)
• Increase your cache limit and cap in the sagetv properties file (how much cache sagetv will use before dumping some.)

As for extenders

• Increase your servers sagetv cache and cap limit see above
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.

Could you indicate the server/extender property settings that accomplish these?

Thanks!

Jay

[mkanet]

Thanks Plucky!!!! Now that's what I'm talkin about. Right on!

I have another tweak to add:

Disable software based firewalls on your LAN: (such as: Window firewall, the firewall sub-component that come with Antivirus "suites") on the sageTV server box IF you already have a hardware firewall (inherently builtin to any common home Internet router/switch using NAT). There's no good reason to waste system resources for something that people already have; which in most cases, even the most basic Internet router will provide good packet-level protection.

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Here is my list of what I do that helps and I have no spinning arrows on my clients at all

• Make sure Fanart is cached locally if plugin doesn't do it already (most do but double check hugest gain you will get using fanart)
• Make sure min of 4gb of ram and a decent video ram as well.
• Make sure heap is at min 1gb
• Turn off any background tasks that are running especially if it is a dedicated sage box. Remove any virus software or run someting lightweight
• Make sure you have a good gb network connection and that all connections are properly terminated use a tester!
• Increase your cache limit and cap in the sagetv properties file (how much cache sagetv will use before dumping some.)
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.

As for extenders

• Ensure good network connection preferably gb switch feeding from a gb server (even though it is only 10/100 especially if using multiple hd300s I run 5 currently)
• Increase your servers sagetv cache and cap limit see above
• Make sure min 4gb of ram and 1gb min heap (sometimes more)
• Make sure background process aren't killing your performance (ie multiple comm skips or such done on the server if the server is busy it can't render your ui for extenders)
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Make sure you have a good gb network connection and that all connections are properly terminated use a tester!

Any recommendations for one that actually does something? Other than a $1k Fluke qualifier.

And I'm curious about the cache setting too, my searches haven't found anything.

[mkanet]

Plucky, we're very curious how to do this. Maybe even give some guidelines how the first item below would affect RAM usage. Thanks!

• Increase your cache limit and cap in the sagetv properties file (how much cache sagetv will use before dumping some.)
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.

[Slipshod]

While not specific to Sage, you can increase TCP network performance by tweaking on your TCP options. Windows XP (and the original WHS) limit the TCP window size to the point where it will hold back performance over 802.11n networks (and gigabit networks, but that's not really an issue with extenders or Sage). These settings help speed up transfers from the server to clients running over wireless.

Set Tcp1323Opts to 3 to enable timestamping and larger windows, and then expand your TCP windows size.

The settings from my WHS server are below, in regedit file format. I can play everything short of Blu-Ray flawlessly over my 5GHz 802.11n wireless network with these settings. And sometimes BluRays will even play fine.

Vista and Windows 7 should have reasonably sane defaults for this. Server 2008 uses an entirely different TCP algorithm (Compound TCP) which is allegedly even better (don't have it, don't know).

Muck with your registry at your own risk.

----
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters]
"TcpWindowSize"=dword:0003ebc0
"Tcp1323Opts"=dword:00000003
"GlobalMaxTcpWindowSize"=dword:0003ebc0

[wayner]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

[*]Make sure min of 4gb of ram and a decent video ram as well.

So that means don't run a 32 bit version of Windows, correct?

I really wish that someone had written FW drivers for Win7 64.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Any recommendations for one that actually does something? Other than a $1k Fluke qualifier.

And I'm curious about the cache setting too, my searches haven't found anything.

ui/system_memory_2dimage_cache_limit=64000000
ui/system_memory_2dimage_cache_scale=2
ui/system_memory_2dimage_cache_size=54000000

Once you hit the 'limit' it will free images until it gets down to 'size'.
These values are all multiplied by the 'scale' factor, so mine would
actually be 128M and 108M based on the above numbers. Easy way to make it
bigger is to just make the scale factor larger, defaults are 20M for limit,
2 for scale, and 16M for size.

Above from a convo from sage along time ago. Don't go to high remember the heap uses much more than just images but the default is pretty low IMHO.

Originally Posted by mkanet

Plucky, we're very curious how to do this. Maybe even give some guidelines how the first item below would affect RAM usage. Thanks!

• Increase your cache limit and cap in the sagetv properties file (how much cache sagetv will use before dumping some.)
• decrease the timeout setting to like 1ms to load images quicker.

Cache limit still won't go past your heap setting and remember there are allot of other things in your heap besides images so don't use it all or even close

The timeout setting isn't as important with background loading but with the default ui and smm it uses that setting for inactivity time to cache ahead.

Originally Posted by wayner

So that means don't run a 32 bit version of Windows, correct?

I really wish that someone had written FW drivers for Win7 64.

No under now means I get by with 2gb on one client. Any new system definately yes I don't build any 32 bit os anymore and don't recomend it but that is just me

Originally Posted by jayman

Could you indicate the server/extender property settings that accomplish these?

Thanks!

Jay

See above

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

More RAM, and disabled swap.

I'm running 32bit system because I need firewire channel changing, so my box is already maxed out at 4GB. Plus that is such a ridiculous suggestion that I'm not even gonna bother with it. It's almost like you're trolling with your responses, intentionally or not.

Can we just drop the SSD debate? For those that tried SSD and didn't notice a performance increase, that's too bad for you, but that doesn't mean that others won't see a performance increase, especially when a few people have confirmed that they noticed it.

If you have some other performance tips, post them and share with the rest, no need to nitpick about SSD performance or the title of the thread.

[blade]

I've never tried it, but I've read about people making use of more than 4 GB of RAM with XP 32 bit. Say someone has 8 GB of RAM and they use 3 GB for XP then use the other 5 GB of unallocated memory to create a RAM disk and use it for the Swap File and other temporary files. I have no idea if it would have any benefit for Sage or if it even works that well.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

It's almost like you're trolling with your responses, intentionally or not.

How in the world is that trolling? It was a direct response to a direct question. And I certainly don't see how it's a ridiculous suggestion. Sage runs extremely fast, even on older hardware, if you can prevent it from swapping the heap to disk. Keeping the heap in physical RAM is extremely difficult, especially when the heap may very well be 1/3 or more of your installed RAM, because windows will always swap stuff to disk to make sure there is a large portion of the physical ram completely unused. This is nice for multi-use desktop systems, as it keeps that memory open for opening programs up quickly - but on a sage server, it's of little use, and jsut wastes that chunk of empty RAM. If the sagetv server is doing nothing BUT acting as a sagetv server (which I also recommend), it's memory footprint will be very steady. Disabling the swap file is a VERY good way to boost performance on 'single-task' systems. 4GB (well, 3.2GB or so accessible to a 32-bit system), with a 1.2-1.5GB JVM heap, with virtual memory disabled makes for a VERY responsive sagetv server - which is what I THOUGHT the thread was about.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by razrsharpe

QUOTE=davephan;478184]
$230 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-551-_-Product

This has since dropped to $199.99 - $30 MIR Whether you use it for sage or not, that's a killer price...

Originally Posted by blade

I've never tried it, but I've read about people making use of more than 4 GB of RAM with XP 32 bit. Say someone has 8 GB of RAM and they use 3 GB for XP then use the other 5 GB of unallocated memory to create a RAM disk and use it for the Swap File and other temporary files. I have no idea if it would have any benefit for Sage or if it even works that well.

Without enabling PAE, Windows XP will not address memory >~ 4GB (it's 3.something) so there would be no way to create a RAM disk from anywhere XP can see it. Enabling PAE is against the license agreement with XP and IIRC requires a custom kernel...

[Nelbert]

Enabling PAE just requires adding the line /PAE to the boot.ini, it used to be supported by Sun to get round the 1.5Gb limit on Windows, but they removed it in Java 1.5 as an option.

MS say enabling PAE should only be used if also enabling DEP for >4Gb support and is only offically supported by Win 2003 enterprise and data centre edition. (32Gb and 64Gb respectively)

While XP 32 can see 4Gb, bear in mind the video ram and other io areas will get mapped to the top of the 4Gb, so a you went for the 512Mb video card instead of a 128/256Mb video card, you lose 512Mb from your 4Gb when the video card memory is remapped to the 3.5->4Gb memory area.

That leaves ~3.5Gb for windows to use for itself and any running programs. If you're lucky you'll get 3Gb for apps but more likely nearer to 2.5-2.75Gb once windows is up and running.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Nelbert

Enabling PAE just requires adding the line /PAE to the boot.ini, it used to be supported by Sun to get round the 1.5Gb limit on Windows, but they removed it in Java 1.5 as an option.

You are correct, that will enable PAE, but still will not let XP/Vista address more than 4GB of physical RAM; the code to lock it down is in the kernel.

A software analyst actually got a Vista test system up and running with > 4GB of memory.

...I have modified the kernel just enough so that it ignores the two license values that set memory limits, and I have started Windows in Test Mode so that it tolerates a kernel that no longer has Microsoft’s digital signature.

This is way OT though and this thread has already been jacked enough so I'm gonna shut up now

[ace007]

wow.. quite the debate going on. I was using several WD green drives in my system and saw the occassional circle of wait on the HD200 extenders and had a drive start to go bad so I invested in 2 2B seagate 6 gb/s drives since my motherboard could handle the 6gb rates. I put them in a motherboard Raid 1 array and noticed a pretty nice speed boost. Very rarely do I get waiting circles and comskip is tons faster.

So obviously disk IO can make a pretty big difference without going too crazy. I do happen to have a spare $130GB SSD drive that came out of a work laptop. I'm not about to rebuild my server again but I was thinking about adding it to the server to maybe put swap and /temp over to. Don't really want to put anything else on there that needs redundancy but any other ideas on small things I could move over there to take advantage of the small speed jump.

Rob

[Nelbert]

The best gain my WHS received was increasing the JVM max heap size. Cleared up all the spinners while browsing the EPG and movies quickly. Only plugin of note is SMM.

Small gains came from banning the MS indexing service from going into my media locations and preventing the A/V from scanning the Sage Service, directories and media locations.

Best performance increase overall was installing Sage under Linux. Less powerful cpu (AMD N36L instead of Core2Duo E4700), half the memory (1Gb instead of 2Gb) and a single disk for everything (to test the install) gave faster performance without any tweaks. No spinners on the extender.
I'm curious to see how it goes once I get the USB boot, run from ram image finished. Biggest down side is losing the satellite tuner due to no s2api driver support

[blade]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

.....Windows XP will not address memory >~ 4GB (it's 3.something) so there would be no way to create a RAM disk from anywhere XP can see it....

Well that is not true according to the article at Tom's Hardware. According to the article you can create a RAM disk from the unallocated memory that XP 32 bit can't see and Windows will treat it just like any other disk. As I said before I have no idea if it would be useful to anyone or not when it comes to Sage, but I'm curious since my Sage server is running XP 32 bit.