Gentoo,Debian lenny or Ubuntu ???

[tomatodave]

I have been toying with the idea of a linux based Sage server for some time now. I have a reasonably beefy AMD dual core computer available to tinker with. My plan is to leave my sage server on win 7 running as is during the tinkering phase. The Windows 7 sage server works ok but I could use a little more horsepower for comskip and placeshifting.
Should I use Gentoo as is recomended or it appears that many are having good luck with Ubuntu. I have ubuntu dual boot on my laptop and have successfully installed placeshifter, so I do have some Ubuntu experience.

From what I read Gentoo may have some performance advantages but might take more setup. Is the extra effort worth while. I would like to end up with a headless linux based server for sage so I can use my Windows 7 elsewhere. I am in no hurry since I am going to leave my current system alone until the linux server can take over. This is also intended to be a winter tinkering project and who knows maybe i will learn something.

Here is my plan with the linux box
1. set up operating system Gentoo or Ubuntu or Debian lenny
2.spend the $80 and install sage
3. initally just get sage working with the hdhr network tuner
4. move hdpvr's to linux as success permits

tell me what you think especially about Gentoo since I don't see any recent posts of anyone using it.

[bastafidli]

I wouldnt use Gentoo, Either go with Ubuntu server (which is what most I think in here is using) or go with something like CentOS 5.5 for stability (and upgrade to CentOS 5.6 and 6.0 shortly for more current packages)

[tomatodave]

OK thanks, that was the direction I was going.

[cenwesi]

Ubuntu all the way!

[peterjb]

If you do want to consider Debian, you should probably look at Squeeze rather than Lenny.. The RC for Squeeze came out a few days ago, so the final release is imminent.. There are quite a number of distros out there that are based on Squeeze, CrunchBang Statler and Linux Mint Debian Edition to name just two..

I currently run CrunchBang Statler on my Server rig and am pretty happy with it so far..

Cheers

Peter

[davephan]

I've also thought about setting up SageTV on Linux. Can Linux make use of a quad-core processor? I am thinking of using a i-7 950 3.06 gig quad-core with 3 gigs of RAM. Can the Linux OS go over the 4 gig RAM limit? I would probably run Comskip and other SageTV related applications on the Linux server.

Dave

[tomatodave]

I have been merrily tinkering with getting a sage server (amd 64 5600 on a msi?? Motherboard with 4 gig ram) setup on ubuntu server. Initially I had some hardware issues (bad IDE ribbon cable) along with not totally knowing my way around the bios of this MSI motherboard. But last night after trying to install firefox, my password would no longer work (my hope was to be able to search for help and then have the ability to copy and paste). Maybe I need to put the training wheels back on and use the desktop version with the gnome gui or install a gui on the server (I know its not recomended). What are the real risks?

This may be a long bumpy road but I am in no hurry and every I have a problem I learn something.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by davephan

Can Linux make use of a quad-core processor?...Can the Linux OS go over the 4 gig RAM limit?

Yes, linux can handle a quad core. I've seen linux on 64-way systems.

Like windows, linux comes in 32- and 64-bit versions, so you have some choices to make. SageTV is a 32-bit application, and has 32-bit dependencies on java. It can be run on a 64-bit version, but getting the 32-bit java installed & used by SageTV can be tricky if you're new to linux. Depending on the distro, the 32-bit version of linux will probably install a PAE aware kernel if you have memory above the 4GB limit, so you'll be able to use all your memory.

The downside to either a 64- or 32-bit PAE environment for SageTV is that the tuner/capture card drivers are almost never tested like this. 99% of users run mythtv, vdr, or some other native linux solution that is 64-bit ready. So most people are either running legacy (non-PAE) 32-bit systems, or pure 64-bit systems. Eg, SageTV is using a codepath in the drivers that is not well tested.

Things would be a heck of a lot easier if SageTV came out with a 64-bit version of SageTV.

Drew

[Nelbert]

If you have a need for the FloppyDTV/FireDTV tuner then don't bother with Ubuntu.

They still have an outstanding bug in their patches which prevents the module being built. Even in the latest kernels as I've been busy building both Debian and Ubuntu kernels for a live image and the DTV module can't be enabled on Ubuntu. It works fine for Debian and other distros or if you compile a vanilla kernel for Ubuntu.

Choosing between Debian or Ubuntu may come down to how much work you want to do. Ubuntu include firmwares for most of the common v4l drivers, Debian have stripped even more drivers and firmware from their builds with the upcoming Squeeze release. Part of the Debian Patching is removing things from the Linux Kernel as well as Debian specific bug fixes. If driver source isn't clearly and verifiable as being opensource under a compatible license they remove it from their kernel. They don't include any firmware blobs unless it's clearly compatible with their license so the /lib/firmware directory on both Lenny and Squeeze is quite sparse.

Not a major issue if you are comfortable hunting down and installing the firmwares (not all of which are available at the linuxtv site) or extracting the firmware from the windows driver. If you're not comfortable with that then Ubuntu will be the safer route.

The downside to either a 64- or 32-bit PAE environment for SageTV is that the tuner/capture card drivers are almost never tested like this. 99% of users run mythtv, vdr, or some other native linux solution that is 64-bit ready. So most people are either running legacy (non-PAE) 32-bit systems, or pure 64-bit systems. Eg, SageTV is using a codepath in the drivers that is not well tested.

Things would be a heck of a lot easier if SageTV came out with a 64-bit version of SageTV.

Even going 32-bit without PAE is no guarentee SageTV will work with the hardware. I'm not sure what API version they're using, their sys requirements don't say, but I have a DVB-S2 receiver working without issues under linux but SageTV refuses to work with so it. Have raised a support ticket, so we'll see.

A 64 bit version for compatability with modern OSs (Windows, Linux and presumably Mac) would be a step forward, but a trial license for Linux to be able to confirm H/W compatability would be like sending a rocket to the moon.

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by drewg

Yes, linux can handle a quad core. I've seen linux on 64-way systems.

Like windows, linux comes in 32- and 64-bit versions, so you have some choices to make. SageTV is a 32-bit application, and has 32-bit dependencies on java. It can be run on a 64-bit version, but getting the 32-bit java installed & used by SageTV can be tricky if you're new to linux. Depending on the distro, the 32-bit version of linux will probably install a PAE aware kernel if you have memory above the 4GB limit, so you'll be able to use all your memory.

The downside to either a 64- or 32-bit PAE environment for SageTV is that the tuner/capture card drivers are almost never tested like this. 99% of users run mythtv, vdr, or some other native linux solution that is 64-bit ready. So most people are either running legacy (non-PAE) 32-bit systems, or pure 64-bit systems. Eg, SageTV is using a codepath in the drivers that is not well tested.

Things would be a heck of a lot easier if SageTV came out with a 64-bit version of SageTV.

Drew

Maybe I am just more comfortable with Linux, but my setup was very smooth. I installed vanilla 64b CentOS 5.5 (I wrote how to in linux section). Then downloaded 32b version of java directly from Sun/Oracle. Installed Sage into /opt/sagetv, installed HDPVR drivers into /opt/hdhomerun and was up and running.

And about handling multicore CPUs, my workstation is dual quad-core Xeon with hyperthreading running 64b Ubuntu desktop OS, some of my apps can utilize 16 virtual cores just fine :-).

[peterjb]

Originally Posted by Nelbert

have a DVB-S2 receiver working without issues under linux but SageTV refuses to work with so it. Have raised a support ticket, so we'll see.

I also have a DVB-S2 device that works well under Linux, but with no S2API support in SageTV it is currently a paperweight.. I've asked a couple of times over the last year to get S2API on the roadmap, but other functionality appears to have a higher priority..

I finally caved over Christmas and bought a couple of cheap USB DVB-S devices.. Now I'm just waiting for them to arrive..

Cheers

Peter

[drewg]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

Maybe I am just more comfortable with Linux, but my setup was very smooth.

Yes, me too. And you're using a reasonable OS, and not Ubuntu as well. But I've seen too many threads where new-to-linux people utterly fail to get SageTV working because of either using the 64b java, or using the open-source jre that Ubuntu ships.

Drew

[Nelbert]

Originally Posted by peterjb

I also have a DVB-S2 device that works well under Linux, but with no S2API support in SageTV it is currently a paperweight.. I've asked a couple of times over the last year to get S2API on the roadmap, but other functionality appears to have a higher priority..

I finally caved over Christmas and bought a couple of cheap USB DVB-S devices.. Now I'm just waiting for them to arrive..

Cheers

Peter

Seriously? Surely that can't be right? No S2API support, but it was merged into mainline in 2008 wasn't it? What version of the DVB API is being used?? I guess that could explain why my tuner isn't working... although it shouldn't stop it working as a DVB-S device. The V3 API calls aren't that different and I have backwards compat for the old interface build into my kernel My tuner was enabled by the liplianin drivers merged into 2.6.28 as part of the S2API proposal so.

If that's the case then the WAF on SageTV just went out the window . While a DVB-S tuner is fine for uk freesat (at the moment), it's not going to work with our Platforma DV/HD subscription. Platforma only use S2 transponders. I wouldn't be surprised to see Freesat move across to S2 either, Sky have started moving their HD stuff across to S2 transponders. You can also get alot of SD channels down S2 transponders using mpeg4.

If tuners enabled in the S2API driver sets aren't supported then that needs to be pointed out in the tuner compatibility list on the website in 200ft high burning letters instead of the current "if linux likes it, it should work comment" It should also be made top Sticky in the Linux Forum and made very clear in the FAQs, especially as most new tuners PCIe and USB are S2 devices.
I was considering trying to shoehorn a Mystique card into the case as it's a different chipset (ngene) and can still power a rotor, sounds like there's no point.

[peterjb]

Originally Posted by Nelbert

Seriously? Surely that can't be right? No S2API support, but it was merged into mainline in 2008 wasn't it? What version of the DVB API is being used??

Unfortunately it would appear to be true. The version of the DVB API in use within SageTV does not appear support device drivers that are built to support only the S2API. I successfully built the drivers for my device from s2-liplianin and both MeTV & SageTV can't see it. But Kaffeine, MythTV and VDR can..

I'd suggest raising a support ticket requesting device support as you'll then add to the number of users have asked for the support..

Cheers

Peter

[Grant.Edwards]

It sounds like you've decided not to use Gentoo, but for the sake of
others who might be interested, here's the /etc/init.d/sagetv file I
came up with for use on Gentoo:

#!/sbin/runscript

depend() {
        need net localmount
        after bootmisc
}

start() {
        ebegin "Starting SageTV Server"

        export HOME=/opt/sagetv/server
        unset DISPLAY
        unset SESSION_MANAGER

        if [ ! -e $HOME/activkey ] ; then
            eend 1 "No activkey found in $HOME/activkey"
            return 1
        fi

        if [ ! -e $HOME/key ] ; then
            eend 2 "No key found in $HOME/key"
            return 2
        fi

        start-stop-daemon --start \
            --background \
            --chuid sagetv:video \
            --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/sagetv.pid \
            --user sagetv \
            --env HOME=$HOME \
            --exec /usr/lib/jvm/sun-jre-bin-1.6/bin/java \
            --startas /opt/sagetv/server/sagetv-server
        eend $?
}

stop () {
        ebegin "Stopping SageTV Backend"
        start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile=/var/run/sagetv.pid
        eend $?
}

Note that this is for SageTV 6.whatever, I don't know if the filename
"sagetv-server" is the same in version 7. Also note that the JRE path
is hardwaired and must match up with whatever is started by the "exec"
statement in the sagetv-server bash script.