Sagetv HDPVR and HD

[PLUCKYHD]

Alright guys finally got pay tv turned back on (it is football season after all). Rather then spend more money on another r5000 setup like I use to have. I decided to give the hdpvr another try.

Much better than it was a year and a half ago worked the first go around kutos for that!!!

I have one question when using a dish box how do you be sure it is actually tuning to the hd channels and not the sd channels since they use the same channel number? I selected the hd version in the channel setup but don't feel like that is doing it everytime.

Anyone else run into this?

cheers

[stanger89]

If you have the downmapping enabled in the STB setup (which you have to to have them be on the same channel number), then it's impossible to tune the SD version without going through the guide.

In other words, you always get the HD channel when you type in the channel number (as is the case with an IR blaster).

[PLUCKYHD]

Okay quite good to know just wanted confirmation.
Working pretty well other than the painfully slow channel changing I remember the r5000 be a bit faster.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Okay quite good to know just wanted confirmation.
Working pretty well other than the painfully slow channel changing I remember the r5000 be a bit faster.

Is FireWire channel changing an option for you?

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Brent

Is FireWire channel changing an option for you?

Not with dish no. My brother has FireWire and his doesn't seem any faster at tuning. Just one of the downsides I guess.

[TRiddle]

All of the HD channels on Dish (at least for me anyways) live in the 9000 channel range and are always available. So what I do is: turn off the same channel mapping for SD and HD and re-map in the channel setup guide under the tuner setup. For example...ESPN is 140 and ESPNHD is 140.1 in my guide. When I select 140.1, it routes to 9420 or whatever channel it actually is. Works great for me and produces a 100% WAF rating (which is all that really matters).

[Naylia]

The other option is to just remove all the SD channels from the lineup. They're just not an option in our house

Kids...you're gonna watch HD, or you're not going to watch anything at all...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Naylia

The other option is to just remove all the SD channels from the lineup. They're just not an option in our house

Kids...you're gonna watch HD, or you're not going to watch anything at all...

Yeah daughter would kill me if she couldn't watch yo gabba

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by TRiddle

All of the HD channels on Dish (at least for me anyways) live in the 9000 channel range and are always available. So what I do is: turn off the same channel mapping for SD and HD and re-map in the channel setup guide under the tuner setup. For example...ESPN is 140 and ESPNHD is 140.1 in my guide. When I select 140.1, it routes to 9420 or whatever channel it actually is. Works great for me and produces a 100% WAF rating (which is all that really matters).

Why even have both available? That seems rather pointless, and overly complex.

By default (AFAIK) the "DishHD" downmapping is enabled on Dish boxes so (as in your example) ESPNHD is available by tuning either 9420 or 140. Further Sage's guide data has ESPNHD on both. So why not just enable ESPNHD (only) on 140 and be done with it?

What benefit does being able to pick the SD version (which is generally worse quality even if downconverted to SD)?

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by stanger89

What benefit does being able to pick the SD version (which is generally worse quality even if downconverted to SD)?

I don't have HD receiver so have no actual experience. With that in mind:

If you had a mixture of tuners (hd-pvr and non-hd-pvr) then if you had more concurrent favorites than you had hd-pvrs, the non-hd-pvrs could record the SD version.

Hope that makes sense

[stanger89]

Sort of, except the HD channels' PQ is generally much better, even if recorded in SD over S/Video than the now very, very overcompressed MPEG-2 SD on Dish.

And with most channels (AFAIK) just simulcasting the same thing on both of their channels (ie HD channels generally don't run unique programming any more) there doesn't seem to be a lot of benefit.

OT, but this is a big, big reason why I'd love to see Dish/everyone just stop broadcasting the SD networks at all anymore, not when there's an HD network available. Now that most every network is available HD, and HD is effectively standard programming (what with the "Free HD" offers now), IMO the SD simulcasts are just a waste of precious bandwidth.

Of course I guess the (and I mean no offense with this) "people like you" with only SD capable boxes are the thing holding up that change more than anything. I don't mean to imply there's nothing wrong with not having HD, it's just that it's probably the cost of replacing all your boxes "free" (since it would have to be a mandatory change) is probably the holdup to killing the SD feeds.

[TRiddle]

I do it for one reason only: personal preference. Not everything is shown in HD, and I can't stand black bars on the sides of my shows, so sometimes things get recorded in SD. It's about as far from complex as it can get if my wife can use it So, that is the reason they will remain in the lineup. I just recently upgraded everything on the system, including a clean install of all software. It took me about 10 minutes to re-map this way, and I have America's Everything channel lineup...so it's not like it was time consuming (of course I had my list with all of the channels and their corresponding 9xxx channel number handy).

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Sort of, except the HD channels' PQ is generally much better, even if recorded in SD over S/Video than the now very, very overcompressed MPEG-2 SD on Dish.

OK, learn something new. Didn't know SD tuners could record from the HD input.

Although if you had a mix of HD/non-HD boxes, have the same issue I raised.

Of course I guess the (and I mean no offense with this) "people like you" with only SD capable boxes are the thing holding up that change more than anything. I don't mean to imply there's nothing wrong with not having HD, it's just that it's probably the cost of replacing all your boxes "free" (since it would have to be a mandatory change) is probably the holdup to killing the SD feeds.

No offense taken.
Been LONG time DirecTV (Primestar days) and have ancient Sony Sat-B50/B55 receivers. They are COE (customer owned equipment). I do not pay the $5 lease fee, also still have ABCW (LA) plus local channels from back when we couldn't get ABC and there were no local channels, we got both East & West coast feeds. Would love to get at least 1 HD receiver but can never get a consistent answer from DirecTV. Some say we can add it to our plan and just "lease" the HD, others say any change to our programs/subscription and we would start paying "fee" for our boxes and lose ABCW.

So for now, staying in the "stone age"

Besides, WAF loves the UI of the SAT-B50/55 and ability for the "Custom Channel Lineup"

[UgaData]

I prefer to record the SD channel for cartoons (unless the toon is actually in HD) using the HD-PVR due to the upscale effect (it fills the screen and no black bars)

The examples I can give are the Adult Swim on Sat/Sun and the SyFy Anime on Mon/Tue. If I record the HD channel I end up with black bars (doesn't matter which HD tuner I use). how ever, If I record the SD channel using the HD-PVR it upscales the picture so it fills the screen and no black bars. Just my experience YMMV.

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by UgaData

I prefer to record the SD channel for cartoons (unless the toon is actually in HD) using the HD-PVR due to the upscale effect (it fills the screen and no black bars)

The examples I can give are the Adult Swim on Sat/Sun and the SyFy Anime on Mon/Tue. If I record the HD channel I end up with black bars (doesn't matter which HD tuner I use). how ever, If I record the SD channel using the HD-PVR it upscales the picture so it fills the screen and no black bars. Just my experience YMMV.

So which "aspect" change does the upscaling do?

Can't stand Wide, making everything seem Fat.
Others I sometimes can take but not thrilled about the cropping effect and losing usually top/bottom portion of what should be seen.

How is the "upscaling" any different than changing aspect ratio to wide, or zoom or whatever?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by TRiddle

I do it for one reason only: personal preference. Not everything is shown in HD, and I can't stand black bars on the sides of my shows, so sometimes things get recorded in SD. It's about as far from complex as it can get if my wife can use it So, that is the reason they will remain in the lineup. I just recently upgraded everything on the system, including a clean install of all software. It took me about 10 minutes to re-map this way, and I have America's Everything channel lineup...so it's not like it was time consuming (of course I had my list with all of the channels and their corresponding 9xxx channel number handy).

Ah, well all my TVs are widescreen so I get bars regardless

Originally Posted by graywolf

OK, learn something new. Didn't know SD tuners could record from the HD input.

You're still using an SD input on the tuner (it is an SD tuner after all) but you can record HD channels. I did this for a while before I got an HD PVR. I ran my Dish VIP211 (HD box) into my PVR250 via S/Video. The VIP211 downconverts the HD to SD. The PQ is generally better though since the HD channels are just better quality (less blocky) to start with.

Although if you had a mix of HD/non-HD boxes, have the same issue I raised.

That's what I'm saying though, just because the tuner is SD, doesn't mean you can't record HD channels. You can, you just record a version that the cable/sat box downconverted. This tends to be of higher quality than the direct SD channel due to the better compression used on the HD channels.

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That's what I'm saying though, just because the tuner is SD, doesn't mean you can't record HD channels. You can, you just record a version that the cable/sat box downconverted. This tends to be of higher quality than the direct SD channel due to the better compression used on the HD channels.

OK, understand now....just took a bit for the flint and steel to get the fire (lightbulb) shining

[TRiddle]

Originally Posted by stanger89

OT, but this is a big, big reason why I'd love to see Dish/everyone just stop broadcasting the SD networks at all anymore, not when there's an HD network available. Now that most every network is available HD, and HD is effectively standard programming (what with the "Free HD" offers now), IMO the SD simulcasts are just a waste of precious bandwidth.

1000% agree with this. I'd be much happier if they just ceased to exist. As it is now though, I have to deal with them. It makes my custom guide a bit bloated, but we have an extensive list of favorites setup, so we're usually a week behind on our television viewing as it is. I'd say 99% of this is HD quality, but my wife always seems to find a show she wants to check out that doesn't broadcast in HD, and she can't stand black bars, so it gets recorded in SD. Thus, they'll remain in my guide making it larger than it needs to be until SD is finally put down. Honestly though, I can't remember the last time I actually used the guide.