Dish

[Scavenger]

I was thinking about changing my TV to Dish. (I am running cable now with no box) I have 2 inputs now, but thinking about doing a server, and putting 4 inputs into it. What box they are showing me is a VIP222k. I noticed it has a USB, can you interface with USB to change channels? If not can you run 2 UIRTs to change both boxes? I have heard you can only do 1 and if you can run 2 will there be a problem in saying how to change channels. BTW the VIP222k does 2 tv outputs, so it would have to switch back and forth in order to do 4 stations... or would going with 4 single receivers be better and if so could I run 4 UIRTs?

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

[eric3a]

I only run 2 VIP211ks (single output units) on 1 USBUIRT and 2 HDPVRs. You can't use USB for channel changing.
I am not sure if a dual output unit (222ks) can work in a SageTV setup and I just didn't want to complicate the setup. 1 tuner per box is easier in my mind at least when trouble shooting: Tuner 1, box 1, USBUirt zone 1. I don't mind that it's an "extra" box and prefer the convenience of knowing which tbox doe what.

A USBUIRT can do 3 zones so you wouldn't need 4 of them, though I am not sure how 2 of them coexist together. Seems like it'd be doable. If it was me, I'd probably use 2 zones per unit.

Do you really have a need to record 4 things at the same time from Dish? I find that 2 Dish tuners are more than sufficient to cover that part, then another 2 for the OTA stuff. I guess it depends on familiy size and viewing habits!
Eric

[Scavenger]

Thanks for the info.. At least I am learning more about what can and can't be done. Well I am doing a Media server, and doing 2 or 3 clients, so if 2 or 3 people are watching TV that's 2 or 3 right there, so I am figuring if I have 3 clients watching different stations, that will be one for recording. I hope I am making this where you understand it. Not sure I am using all the correct words

Thanks for your quick answer and help.

[stanger89]

I know you can get 3 zones out of one USB-UIRT. Also you can get the IR tuning adapters to use the second output on the dual-tuner boxes.

And finally, you can change the remote codes on Dish boxes (they support at least 3) so one zone on a USB-UIRT could control 3 Dish boxes, so I suppose in theory, a single USB-UIRT could control at least 9 boxes.

[CollinR]

I have 2 222ks it's really the perfect setup for SageTV with Dish. You will need the TV2IR converter kits to have the USBUIRT control the second zones. Only the first output is actually HD but it can also be modulated and combined with the second signal on one coax. This is handy if you have say PVR500s as you can use all 4 tuners without any expansion. This is nice once you start finding cases with only 7 expansion slots limiting.

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Also you can get the IR tuning adapters to use the second output on the dual-tuner boxes.

Actually you need TV2IR and can purchase them at Dishstore.net

[stanger89]

Woops, didn't look at the link close enough

[CollinR]

It took me a loong time before I found an actual link to it. Thats the only place on the web I know of that actually has them. I think thats just crazy but reality I guess.

Also these devices REQUIRE TV2's remote address to be set to 1. So a USBUIRT can only handle 3 TV2s tops. You can control TV1 like any other Dish box, you can control a massive number with a single USBUIRT.


I am waiting for some HDPVRs to start pulling in the HD.

[eric3a]

Only the first output is actually HD but it can also be modulated and combined with the second signal on one coax.

Sounds interesting.... but I didn't understand it!
HD Modulators are seriously expensive. Maybe the 222 does the modulating? (is it modulated in HD?)

This is handy if you have say PVR500s as you can use all 4 tuners without any expansion.

And if you send all on coax to PVR500s then presumably you're talking about SD aren't you?

I might be very confused here, but wasn't aware of any HD solutions for Dish other than R5000 or HDPVR.

If you're back in SD, I'd rather stay in HD all along with single Dish boxes (211ks) and HDPVR for each box, to keep the whole HD experience.

Eric

[CollinR]

Only TV1 has component and HDMI outputs, that is the only way to get HD out of a 222k. The R5000HD is only available to my knowledge on the older 211 but not the newer 211k.

The HD is not currently sent over the coaxial output, it may be possible in the future.

All the rest of the stuff was SD, as in a bunch of stuff is still in SD. I have mine setup so I can add 2 HDPVRs. I already have 2 PVR500s and an HVR2250. So ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox I can record in HD on the cheap with the HVR2250. I can pull in the TV2s from the 222k s on the PVR500s and have plenty left over for my other gadgets like CCTV and DVD changer text inserter whatever. For now they just capture composite as it's easy. Also I have only replaced 2 of my 4 MVPs with HD200s. Otherwise getting PVR500s would be completely pointless as I couldn't get the stuff back out.

You really need to look at what you record and whats HD/SD and available from where. Buying an HDPVR and paying Dish and outlet fee to get Survivor in HD is kinda silly, and HVR1250 can do that for a one time $50-60. Once you know what you really need then many of us here can help you. Most of the content on Dish is rerun several times per month so you might be surprised how far you can go with only 2 HD sources and an HVR2250 supplied 2 more ABC,NBC,CBS,Fox which often is not rerun nearly as often.

In the end you build favorites and SageTV's recording engine will do it's best to capture everything you request. The shows that don't re-air are the ones that cause scheduling conflicts. The recording logic gets no options if it isn't re-aired.

It's complicated, just stick with it and you will learn. Basically don't overbuy, start small and fix the issues as they come up. What you do buy just make sure is well researched..

[CollinR]

Another one of the cool factors is you can make your system redundent with some filters and a splitter. Since it will already modulate and combine the signals on the coax all you need to to is combine two boxes together and output it to you cable demarcation. Then all your cable jacks in the house will have access to all 4 outputs too. You just hand out remotes if the server needs to go down for an upgrade. Put the TVs on the correct channel and you have TV again.

[eric3a]

You really need to look at what you record and whats HD/SD and available from where. Buying an HDPVR and paying Dish and outlet fee to get Survivor in HD is kinda silly, and HVR1250 can do that for a one time $50-60. Once you know what you really need then many of us here can help you. Most of the content on Dish is rerun several times per month so you might be surprised how far you can go with only 2 HD sources and an HVR2250 supplied 2 more ABC,NBC,CBS,Fox which often is not rerun nearly as often.

Most agreed with that comment and a point I hinted to earlier.
I can record way more HD programming than I can watch with "only" 2 HDPVRS on 2 211ks... And I record ONLY HD programs. The channels I am most interested in (Discovery HD and such) tend to have lots of repeats so it's easy to get everything I want without recording conflicts.

Eric

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by CollinR

The HD is not currently sent over the coaxial output, it may be possible in the future.

Don't count on that, the old Dish 6000 box used to be capable of that, but that functionality was dropped. Probably to make recording harder.

[Scavenger]

well I have been thinking about doing 2 in SD and 2 in HD that should be plenty, but they will all still be dish, so the channel changing problems for 4 boxes still remains. I am going to look into some of these links and read over all this.

Thanks for all the help. This is some Great info here. My cable bill is getting outragous so looking into dish. Not sure why they won't let us change channels remotly though serial or usb, but for some reason they don't want us to.

[KarylFStein]

The 222k just has composite out for TV2, right? How does that picture compare to an analog cable signal? I'm looking to ditch cable too now that they're going to require a STB, (only reason I stuck with 'em is that I didn't need a STB). Anyway, I don't want SD TV to look any worse than it does now! So, trying to decide between two 211ks or a single 222k. (I won't be getting an HD package just yet.)

[sic0048]

What is cheaper? I assume Dish will charge you monthly for an additional VIP211k, but they may also charge you for the dual tuner VIP222.

[CollinR]

If you connect the phone or ethernet the TV2 outlet fee is waived. I have 2 222ks and my grand total hardware cost is $7. 1st box is included in package, second HD box is $7 and no second room fees as they are connected to ethernet.

EDIT: Thats 4 sources for $7 so it's quite a bit cheaper, 4 211s would be $21 per month.

[Scavenger]

We have Charter in the area, and they keep going up and up. I am getting basic 60 stations, and basic internet now and paying $130 a month. No boxes at all. I am looking at changing that to a DSL package with Dish... or just Dish itself.

I have had a little use in UIRT but that was with one box, and it was probably straight forward. Back when I had Beyond TV, before they dumped Media Center. I know with that only one UIRT could be used.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I know you can get 3 zones out of one USB-UIRT. Also you can get the IR tuning adapters to use the second output on the dual-tuner boxes.

And finally, you can change the remote codes on Dish boxes (they support at least 3) so one zone on a USB-UIRT could control 3 Dish boxes, so I suppose in theory, a single USB-UIRT could control at least 9 boxes.

Actually, I think Dish has 15 different remote addresses... meaning in THEORY, a single USB-UIRT zone can control 15 different boxes... (or 45 with all three zones).... silly really..

[videolog]

Actually the price for the 222k is changing to $14 on the second box, starting Feb 1st.