HD200 Stability?

[Greg]

I've been researching the differences between Windows Media Center and SageTV.

One thing the Green Button people agree on is that XBox is the most stable extender, although rather loud.
My question is how stable is the HD200 extender? I've read comments about lock-ups that require power cycling the extender. How often do these things lock-up or is this an old and hopefully fixed issue.

Will the extender play at the full bit rate required for a ripped Blue Ray?

Thanks,
Greg

[Clift]

Codec for codec the HD200 is vastly superior to the xbox 360. It will play almost everything you can throw at it, and certainly a LOT more than the xbox 360 can, without transcoding. It only uses about 7 watts of power and had no moving parts/is completely silent. Stability has been very very good for me and most folks. Those that have stability problems usually have other issues and, obviously, are the squeaky wheel. I had a problem where my HD200 would automatically shut down at one part of a perticular recording. Then it started doing it for multiple recordings. What was the issue? One of my drives was failing. So when the server would hit a snag with bad data, it had a hiccup. Something about that caused the HD200 to lose connection to the SageTV server. As ar as ripped Blu-ray, the HD200 will play full bit rate, but can not play the DTS-HD or Dolby-MA, but can extract the DTS core. It also can not decode the DTS stream, so you would need an external receiver capable of DTS decoding.

[matt91]

Mine is used for a couple of hours every day. I haven't had to reboot except when when I did something that's my fault.

[TwistedMelon]

I've had issues. I've reported bugs. I've worked with support and the developers to debug and find a number of problems. I know of a number of other things that still need to be fixed.

That said, I would call the HD200 "rock solid"

Despite the issues, none of the existing ones are show stoppers and none of the existing ones ever bring the HD200 down.

For streaming and integration with a PVR there's simply no equal out there at all. About the only thing that would give it a run for its money would be something using Boxee or XBMC, and then *ONLY* from a UI perspective.

[Greg]

Thanks for the comments.

Would you consider SageTV using HD200's easy enough for a family to use, including a wife who barely knows how to use a remote? Let's say channel changing or setting up or watching a recording........other than me, no one else would be doing anything more. In these regards, how does it compare to using a stand alone set top box/DVR from, say Comcast? Is it more complicated, as in too many options that would make it confusing? How does the speed of channel changing compare to a stand alone box?

I've read a review somewhere that said that with SageTV you had to use too many button clicks to do something, as compared to Windows Media Center. Any truth to that?

Thanks again,
Greg

[davephan]

I have one HD-200, and it is rock solid. I turn it off when we are not using it, but it can be on for many hours when it is being used. The HD-200 is far more reliable than the MVP, and the picture and sound quality is superior.

My wife has no trouble using the HD-200. I put her collection of DVDs on SageTV, and she prefers using SageTV over the DVD or Blueray players. Hunting around for DVDs, loading them in the player, and putting up with slow chapter mark scanning is a hassle. The HD-200 has many video connectors on it. I use HDMI.

I have used the Comcast DVR. When I compare the Comcast DVR to a HD-200 and SageTV, the Comcast DVR is basically very crude and clunky. If a program is recorded on the DVR, your stuck watching the program on that TV, not any TV in your house. The Comcast DVR has very limited storage, compared to SageTV, which forces you to constantly delete programs. I don't think the Comcast DVR has any intelligence either - it can't learn wha t you like and what you don't like, then record the programs without scheduling them manually. If you forget to schedule the recording, too bad, you missed it. After trying it a few times, I returned the DVR back to Comcast, who charges $18 a month for it after the first six months. It would be really expensive to have many Comcast DVRs around the house.

I haven't been able to get the HD-200 and current dual core 3.0 gig system to fail by clicking buttons too fast. I could get my MVPs or SageTV to lock up by clicking buttons too fast with my old, slow Athlon XP 2800 SageTV computer. You should use a decent computer system, preferably dual or quad core at 3.0 gig or close to that speed and a couple gigs of RAM, not some old computer that became a doorstop because it is too old and slow for people to surf the web.

I've never tried Windows Media Center, but I haven't heard very many good comments about it.

You can watch Live TV with SageTV, but surfing is painfully slow with SageTV, since the channel changing is so slow. I solve that problem by having a cable box at the two TVs that have most of the useage. If someone wants to surf the channels, they switch to the cable box input on the TV and use the cable box.

You can build up your SageTV system slowly over time to spread the system cost over time, adding more tuners, extenders, and disk. If you make your system too big, then you will not be able to watch much of what it records for you, since you never will have that much time.

Dave

[Clift]

Originally Posted by Greg

I've read a review somewhere that said that with SageTV you had to use too many button clicks to do something, as compared to Windows Media Center. Any truth to that?

I thinkthe default STV has more "options" when you want to watch TV, but SageMC seems to be pretty easy. This is how we use ours:
Guide -> Find something you want to watch -> Enter (or OK) -> More details show up, the "Watch" button is already highlighted -> Enter (or OK) and the program starts.

This works well for me, my wife and some family that visit. As stated above, channel surfing a big no-no with SageTV if only because it's slow to change channels. Stability wise, it can handle it though.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by Greg

One thing the Green Button people agree on is that XBox is the most stable extender, although rather loud.
Greg

It may be the most stable Windows Media Center Extender, but that doesn't say very much. Don't get me wrong, WMC is a pretty neat program, but their extender support/development is terrible.

Very few people have issues with the HD-100 or HD-200 SageTV extenders.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by davephan

I haven't been able to get the HD-200 and current dual core 3.0 gig system to fail by clicking buttons too fast. I could get my MVPs or SageTV to lock up by clicking buttons too fast with my old, slow Athlon XP 2800 SageTV computer. You should use a decent computer system, preferably dual or quad core at 3.0 gig or close to that speed and a couple gigs of RAM, not some old computer that became a doorstop because it is too old and slow for people to surf the web.

You can watch Live TV with SageTV, but surfing is painfully slow with SageTV, since the channel changing is so slow. I solve that problem by having a cable box at the two TVs that have most of the useage. If someone wants to surf the channels, they switch to the cable box input on the TV and use the cable box.

Again, great information!

You guys are calming the waters for me. I will use channel changing from the set top box/tv.

The only computer that I currently have is the old Dell that I'm typing on right now. I will be getting another computer for a dedicated media server, so I'll need to research that, as well. I know how to use 'em, but never built one. Do you guys build your own or if not, where do you shop for a ready made one? Windows 7?

Thanks,
Greg

[davephan]

I don't know if most build them, but a lot of people on the forum do build SageTV computers. Building is not really very hard. I usually buy from Newegg. The reviews are helpful at Newegg, although almost every product has some negative reviews. If the product does not have any serious negative reviews or not many negative reviews in general, then it is probably OK. In general, people are much more likely to post a negative review than a positive review on the internet.

I use Windows XP Pro, but XP's days are numbered. You could start with XP and rebuilt the software in 1 - 2 years. It might make more sense to build with Windows 7 from the start, which is the operating system I am thinking of using for my next SageTV hardware build.

First, decide what CPU you will use, then the system board. The CPU should be dual or quad core and above 2 gigs. Closer to 3 gigs is better, but only if the budget allow for it. The system board should have plenty of PCI and PCI-e slots, Sata drive connections, and USB connections. Built-in RAID might also be nice. Dual network connections would also be nice if you have HDHomerun unit(s), since you could remove that network traffic from you main home network. The power supply should be large enough. Below 400 watts might be too small, 600 watt or above would be better. The case should have enough room for installing additional hard drives. I could fit 20 hard drives in my full tower case if I ever expanded my system that much, which will probably never happen.

I don't have any bluerays or even a blueray drive on the computer yet. I do have ripped DVDs, which work great. The quality is the same as the DVD player and the chapter marks work faster than the DVD player.

You can build up the SageTV computer over time, so you can start with just one tuner, one video storage drive separate from the boot drive, and one HD-200. I have enough tuners that I partitioned the channels among the tuners. HDHomerun for OTA channels, 2250 for analog cable, HD-PVR for digitial and HD cable, and a PVR-350 for ripping old VHS video tapes. The more tuners you have, the less recording conflicts. I almost never have recording conflicts now. Too many tuners and hard drives, you will never be able to watch most of the recordings, since you'll never have that much time!

Dave

[mistergq]

Originally Posted by Greg

Do you guys build your own or if not, where do you shop for a ready made one? Windows 7?

First, let me say that HD 200 rocks. I have two of them and love it. I was able to get HD on a single core, but had to reformat, and could not get it to work the second time. As to the wife acceptance factor (WAF), it is very high with the HD200. This thing just works. And now with the playon plugin, its like having VOD on your HD200.

Second, I am not sure everyone builds there own, but a lot build their own computers. The reason is because you can control the quality of what is going into the machine. The main component you will add in the future are additional hard drives. HD records add up and family members seem to never delete their programs so they can watch them again. Also, I think you can build a much cooler (temperature wise) than you can buy from a manufacturer.

[Greg]

Thanks again for the advice.

Half the fun is doing the research..........it's also much cheaper!

I'll check the site for more specific computer build info, but you guys have given me a start with some top level information. There's probably some popular recipes that I may just have to copy.

Thanks,
Greg

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Greg

Thanks for the comments.

Would you consider SageTV using HD200's easy enough for a family to use, including a wife who barely knows how to use a remote? Let's say channel changing or setting up or watching a recording........other than me, no one else would be doing anything more. In these regards, how does it compare to using a stand alone set top box/DVR from, say Comcast? Is it more complicated, as in too many options that would make it confusing? How does the speed of channel changing compare to a stand alone box?

I've read a review somewhere that said that with SageTV you had to use too many button clicks to do something, as compared to Windows Media Center. Any truth to that?

Thanks again,
Greg

My kids, now 8 and 10, have been using Sage for several years. My spouse also loves it.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Greg

My question is how stable is the HD200 extender? I've read comments about lock-ups that require power cycling the extender. How often do these things lock-up or is this an old and hopefully fixed issue.

My HD200 has been mostly stable. I do get lockups occasionally- once a week or so. Half the time I'm pretty sure it's caused by a problem in a file, since they tend to happen on certain media files. That's almost certainly my fault, no Sage's. But, I do get other lockups that don't seem to be caused by anything in particular. They're hard to troubleshoot, because they happen so frequently. It would probably be easier to fix if it happened every day or so.

I'm not saying that to scare you away. I'm happy with my HD200. Just, I don't think your expectation should be 100% reliability.

In these regards, how does it compare to using a stand alone set top box/DVR from, say Comcast? Is it more complicated, as in too many options that would make it confusing?

Personally, I think Sage is easier to use than DishNetwork's DVR. People seem to be able to use the Sage interface pretty easily. It's the turning on the different A/V components and making sure the TV and receiver on are the right inputs that is the bigger problem.

How does the speed of channel changing compare to a stand alone box?

Certainly Sage is slower, at least if you're talking about controlling a cable box. Firewire is faster than IR channel changing. Using the defaults for Hauppauge's IR blaster, I found channel changing painfully slow. But, I don't find it too annoying after using firewire and tweaking the settings. It takes a few seconds to change channels are start playback, but I don't find that too bad.

Do you guys build your own or if not, where do you shop for a ready made one? Windows 7?

I built mine. Partly because I build all my desktop machines and my Sage server is just my old workstation. I'm a little more reserved in my recommendation for building vs. buying. If you're not too picky with components, it's cheaper to buy than it is to build. Buying is kind of nice because you pretty much know the machine is going to work when you get it, without having problems with things fitting or having weird compatibility problems. Most of the PC manufacturers do a decent job keeping their machines quiet too.

But, machines from PC manufacturers don't tend to be very expandable. That's why I always built instead of bought. However, I think that's becoming less of an issue. We're not using PCI/PCIe tuners as much. Now we have things like the USB-based HD-PVR or the networked HDHR. Hard drive space is still an issue. But, some people really won't ever need more than 1-2 terabytes of storage space, and those that do could use networked storage as an alternative. I don't really believe there's a terribly significant difference in quality of components. That was a little true when you had to buy separate ethernet cards, sound cards, etc., but it's less true now that almost everything is on the motherboard.

[mayhewda]

I have had 1 hd200 now for approx 8-9 months. It has been great. Easy to use, setup and just works. I havent done any live tv yet but it has been used for movies, music photos. I built my own whs / sage box and use the hd200 in both standalone and extender mode.

Just one word of caution, to me the HD200 gets pretty warm, so if its going to be in a cabinet make sure you have good air circulation.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by reggie14

My HD200 has been mostly stable. I do get lockups occasionally- once a week or so.

Do you leave the HD-200 power up all the time, or shut it off when it is not being used?

I used to leave the HD-200 on all the time and did notice some problems once and awhile. I then changed, and switch the HD-200 off when I am not using it, and I haven't noticed any more problems.

Dave

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by davephan

Do you leave the HD-200 power up all the time, or shut it off when it is not being used?

Not intentionally. Sometimes I will, and I have noticed that's probably the most frequent cause of other crashes. It has locked up in other instances too, but it's pretty infrequent. Like only every couple weeks.

What's actually been happening a little more often is that video playback gets corrupted until I hit stop and restart playback. Since I don't actually have to restart the HD200 unit it doesn't really bother me, but it's sort of weird. Plus it only happens once every week or two.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by davephan

You can watch Live TV with SageTV, but surfing is painfully slow with SageTV, since the channel changing is so slow. I solve that problem by having a cable box at the two TVs that have most of the useage. If someone wants to surf the channels, they switch to the cable box input on the TV and use the cable box.

Let's say I'm watching a live show through the cable box, not through SageTV and I want to pause live TV, which basically means that I want SageTV to start recording it. What do I have to do? Switch the TV input to where the extender is, pull up the guide, click the show and then pause? That would seem like a lot of work.

I understand that changing channels on the cable box is slow. How about an ATSC tuner, such as the HDHomerun?

Thanks,
Greg

[davephan]

Channel changing is slow with SageTV compared to using the set top boxes.

If you want to use the features of SageTV, like pausing live TV, then you need to use SageTV and accept the slow channel changing.

If you are just surfing channels, then you won't have the features of SageTV, but you will have much faster surfing. Surfing with SageTV is very painfully slow, and really not usable. I think when people surf channels, they aren't really committed to any one TV show, therefore, there isn't the need to pause live TV, since you surf to something else.

Channel changing on the HDHomerun with SageTV isn't fast either.

If no one in your household likes to surf channels, then you can run all of your set top boxes through SageTV. It would be cheaper, since there won't be extra set top box monthly rental fees, plus you will get all the features of SageTV, except for fast channel switching.

Dave

[xxLJLxx]

Originally Posted by Greg

Let's say I'm watching a live show through the cable box, not through SageTV and I want to pause live TV, which basically means that I want SageTV to start recording it. What do I have to do? Switch the TV input to where the extender is, pull up the guide, click the show and then pause? That would seem like a lot of work.

I understand that changing channels on the cable box is slow. How about an ATSC tuner, such as the HDHomerun?

Thanks,
Greg

I don't have any experience with the HDHR, but I do have the Hauppauge HVR-1600 ATSC tuner and for OTA the channel surfing actually isn't too bad in my opinion. I usually don't surf but during live events, it really isn't too, too slow.