IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[sdsean]

Gotta say it. . . I hate the default UI.

SageMC is ok, although still not that great even after i've edited all the menus and added plug-ins like Sage Movie Wall. . .

Its funny b/c they both have quirks that are quite annoying. ..

For example using the Default UI, if you are playing a DVD and hit the menu button on the remote when you are not allowed to. . .the default UI does the right thing, it puts a little ghostbuster icon in the top right corner. . .

SageMC on the other hand shows you this awful looking error box that is scary to anyone but me. . .

Neither one of them (unless using an extender), let you have visulizations for music that are very cool or customizable (and the winamp plug in is pretty much dead)

And the default UI doesn't have a real "exit" button like SageMC.

And lets not get into the meta-data stuff. . . still not happy yet with phoneix or the editing tools, or the way fan art is implemented in either. . .

If it was better, more current users would be a lot happier, and maybe you'd get some new ones as well. . . (although honestly I think the barrier to entry for sage is more on the hardware front than anything).

[tmiranda]

I've looked at a lot of UI's (for Sage, and the competition) and I still prefer the malore menus in Sage that are available in the "secret extras". The out of the box menus in Sage are really bad looking IMHO.

But I do think Sage needs to update the UI to stay "modern looking" increase their market share.

Tom

[bsung]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I've looked at a lot of UI's (for Sage, and the competition) and I still prefer the malore menus in Sage that are available in the "secret extras". The out of the box menus in Sage are really bad looking IMHO.

But I do think Sage needs to update the UI to stay "modern looking" increase their market share.

Tom

I'm a malore menu user too. It's not the nicest looking but I like the functionality. (And yes I have an automatic garage door opener as well as Insteon lights and other geeky stuff). It may be because I've only briefly played with MC and would still consider myself a novice when I read some of the discussions on this forum. Plus, my wife doesn't like change. So updates to the system for things in the background that improve functionality are great but frequent changes to my UI wouldn't go well. If UI changes started with beta, I probably couldn't participate until it was all done to minimize the changes that can be seen.

[ChaOConnor]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I've looked at a lot of UI's (for Sage, and the competition) and I still prefer the malore menus in Sage that are available in the "secret extras". The out of the box menus in Sage are really bad looking IMHO.

But I do think Sage needs to update the UI to stay "modern looking" increase their market share.

Tom

+1 for the malore menus. I liked SageMC a lot, but honestly I liked the malore menues better and w/ STVi addins, I can get most of SageMC functionality I miss. Only thing I really miss is TVExplorer for my achieved TV shows that aren't in the recording directory. If only I had malore menus to browse the media library I'd be in heaven!

[SHS]

-1 for the malore menus and sagemc when come to me

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by ChaOConnor

+1 for the malore menus. I liked SageMC a lot, but honestly I liked the malore menues better and w/ STVi addins, I can get most of SageMC functionality I miss. Only thing I really miss is TVExplorer for my achieved TV shows that aren't in the recording directory. If only I had malore menus to browse the media library I'd be in heaven!

Shameless plug:

See this post. I have not done any more work on this pending TVE 2.0 but if you're interested PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...light=Explorer

[Fuzzy]

Personally, All I'd like is for some additions to the Default STV's theming capability, to allow a little more customization, and making Malore the default, instead of a hidden extra. Beyond that, I believe all required functionality is there, and works great.

Oh.. and as for visualizations... Just because no changes have been made to the winamp plugin in a LONG time, doens't necessarily mean it is dead. It still functions perfectly for me, and provides GREAT visualization capability.

[Dingdul]

I must admit to having thrown lots of money and time into Sage this year - incl 3 extenders and new server - on the assumption that the UI will be overhauled at some point not too far off. Over time we've become indifferent to the look/feel so, whilst not complaining as such, would be disappointed not to see some improvements in the next round of betas...

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Try not to take the 'UI Complaints' on the forum to represent all the users. There are a LARGE silent majority of users that are perfectly happy with the defulat UI.

No offense, but with I read that line about the silent majority, I thought of Good Morning Vietnam:

Lt. Hauk: "Sir, you heard from the men who don't like my humor, but what about the silent masses who do? And as far as polkas, they are a much-maligned musical taste."
Gen. Taylor: "Lieutenant, you don't know if you're shot, bleeped, powder-burned or snake-bit. I don't care about polkas."

[TwistedMelon]

The SageUI has very low mass-market appeal. But the setup, regardless of the UI, is what holds this type of product back from the mass-market for the most part.

A UI re-do, while welcome, will only go so far to bringing on new customers. Most of those customers will still be in the "enthusiast" camp.

To see where modern UI has been going in the past year or two, one need only look at XBMC, Boxee and Plex. Sage's biggest hole right now is in the management and presentation of local media, be it movies, TV or music. I'd put most focus on movies and TV because anyone half-serious about music already has something else much better suited to it (like Squeezebox, Sonos, etc..) The current media library UI isn't usable at all for managing anything approaching a "collection" - I continue to use the "browse" features where I can at least get a vertical list. Not pretty and it's cumbersome, but it works.

[setherd]

how about just play cd's?

[Stuntman]

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

The SageUI has very low mass-market appeal. But the setup, regardless of the UI, is what holds this type of product back from the mass-market for the most part.

A UI re-do, while welcome, will only go so far to bringing on new customers. Most of those customers will still be in the "enthusiast" camp.

I know you should not judge a book by it's cover, but I'll admit here, to all of you, that I still do.. to some extent. And while the UI for SageTV may not be what makes it great, if I were shopping for a PVR and came to SageTV's site.. I'd not be impressed with what I saw on that cover, and would likely move on to another product that looked prettier. Once I liked what I saw, I'd start looking deeper into that product, but I can say that the UI could very well be what hooks me on a product initially. I think, based on just my own impression, that Sage would rather use their financial resources toward coding and their hardware development rather than things that so many of their users can do for themselves.. like the customizations. Perhaps Sage could better link to the customizations from their main page.. with screenshots of alternate UI's.. I'm not sure most people surfing around for a PVR setup will find those products readily.. Seeing what is possible right away just might keep potential customers from clicking away..

[Lucas]

It's difficult not to agree with Stuntman. It is a very valid point of view.

I think that those who are just looking to setup a simple PVR setup, something that can be setup with most software around, will inevitably also focus on how the UI looks.

Those that want to achieve something more complex (large headless server, multiple tuners mutiple TVs etc), lets call them "more informed customers", will most likely skip over the look of the UI since their primary objectives are met by the substantive features of SageTV.

Back on the subject of the betas, the quiet reminds me of a previous lull a couple of years ago. I think we will have to wait after CES for any news.

[bsung]

Originally Posted by Stuntman

Perhaps Sage could better link to the customizations from their main page.. with screenshots of alternate UI's.. I'm not sure most people surfing around for a PVR setup will find those products readily..

I'd call myself an uneducated enthusiast. So while I think a lot of the additions I've read about on the forums are pretty cool, I've only had guts/time to play around with a few of them. (I can't afford to have any downtime to preserve WAF.) So not only for people completely new to Sage but for those of us less proficient, a UI that incorporates some of the best attributes of the customizations would be nice too.

One concern I had about the silence was that it seems as if there was a charge for upgrading from one of the prior versions in the past. I am currently a licensed user and don't mind occassionally paying for major upgrades, but I'm holding out on buying another license until we find out what's been in the works.

[mkanet]

That's true. the only reasons I'm using sageTV is because of the solid R5000 support, HD200, and placeshifter support; and, I guess would have to deal with using the retro-looking stock UI if I didnt spend months customizing my sageMC based clients. So yeah, the UI can look great; however, it's more work than most people have time for; which definitely goes beyond just loading sageMC.

Originally Posted by Lucas

It's difficult not to agree with Stuntman. It is a very valid point of view.

I think that those who are just looking to setup a simple PVR setup, something that can be setup with most software around, will inevitably also focus on how the UI looks.

Those that want to achieve something more complex (large headless server, multiple tuners mutiple TVs etc), lets call them "more informed customers", will most likely skip over the look of the UI since their primary objectives are met by the substantive features of SageTV.

Back on the subject of the betas, the quiet reminds me of a previous lull a couple of years ago. I think we will have to wait after CES for any news.

[Brent]

Fun to speculate, but ideally we won't know until January what is in store for us so I'll defer to the next few weeks before we talk about what is really coming next from SageTV.

But if you want to talk wishlist I can do that. Here's my shortlist of wants for SageTV - note that there are some of these that are definitely long-shots and probably not coming any time soon:

1. UI - a refresh would be nice. Leave lots of options including keeping the status quo for those who like it how it is now, but a fancy, fresh new UI would be welcomed by many including those who review the product Not just appearance, but focus on simplifying the main UI - the part most end-users use daily. I think this one can happen and could satisfy most existing and potential SageTV users and it is #1 on my list for a reason.
2. Improvements to the Music functions. I have other posts regarding details here, but this is high on my personal wishlist. I want these to be core, built-in improvements - not add-ons
3. Improvements to the Photo functions. see #2 above
4. Placeshifter to mobile devices such as Android/iPhone/WebOS
5. Refresh of the HD Theater with HDMI 1.3 - this is likely not coming soon imo. How about an optional blu-ray drive built in...
6. Easier Plug-in Installation & setup. Work with devs of the "essential" plug-in's to make an easy install package that doesn't require hours of work

There's probably more, but those are the things that come to mind.

[JetreL]

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

The SageUI has very low mass-market appeal. But the setup, regardless of the UI, is what holds this type of product back from the mass-market for the most part.

SageTVs biggest threat that I can see is the same thing that makes us love it so much, it’s a strong base product that can be modded as needed and is able to be ran on most PCs. If they ever wanted to penetrate the mass consumer market they will need to start developing a complete package or license/develop for small to mid-tier Cable Providers.. (I know they are/were working on a USB version but I think that will just be support nightmare and all they will gain by that is the middle of the road hobbyist. Which may be profitable but that’s a heck of a gamble.)

There are too many unknowns when you sell to the PC crowd... Look at HD-PVRs everyone thought it would be the saving grace but here we are 1+ year later still wishing for stability. I could wager I have probably spent the same about of time trouble shooting why I was not successfully recording as watching TV. When it works it really works well but when it doesn’t it really doesn’t.

Right now Sage’s core product works well but they need to integrate into a box ($$$) that has a simple, workable, and reliable solution for Joe Consumer if they ever would like to capture that market. But to be candid I don’t know if that would be a good place for them because developing an All-in-One box is very expensive and opens themselves to legal liabilities.

A great example was ReplayTV. SonicBlue had a great product that was slightly configurable and typically worked right out of the box. There were “Hacks” to capture the hobbyist crowd and it was simple enough for the mass consumer, if they hadn’t packed a neat little commercial skip logic in there that let them get sued out of existence I would imagine we would still see them here today?

Ok I am going to stop before I get to TMWDNR….

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Brent

1. UI - a refresh would be nice. Leave lots of options including keeping the status quo for those who like it how it is now, but a fancy, fresh new UI would be welcomed by many including those who review the product Not just appearance, but focus on simplifying the main UI - the part most end-users use daily. I think this one can happen and could satisfy most existing and potential SageTV users and it is #1 on my list for a reason.
2. Improvements to the Music functions. I have other posts regarding details here, but this is high on my personal wishlist. I want these to be core, built-in improvements - not add-ons
3. Improvements to the Photo functions. see #2 above
4. Placeshifter to mobile devices such as Android/iPhone/WebOS
5. Refresh of the HD Theater with HDMI 1.3 - this is likely not coming soon imo. How about an optional blu-ray drive built in...
6. Easier Plug-in Installation & setup. Work with devs of the "essential" plug-in's to make an easy install package that doesn't require hours of work

Great list. I basically agree with the order. More generally, I think the "imported media" aspects of Sage need work. While there are some great third-party plugins that do this, I'd like to see some imported video metadata support in the stock UI (though, I don't expect to see it).

And, I've never really understood the strong desire some people have for built-in optical drives in the extenders. Clearly there's a desire out there, I just don't share it. I actually think there's more use for internal hard drives, as I think it makes the extenders more attractive to people that just want to use the media player functionality.

Speaking of which, I don't know what would be required, but it seems like the HD200 needs some sort of update to improve performance on the media player side of things. It was really laggy when I played around with it. It makes me really hesitant to recommend it to a coworker that is looking for a DVD jukebox.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by Brent

Fun to speculate, but ideally we won't know until January what is in store for us so I'll defer to the next few weeks before we talk about what is really coming next from SageTV.

But if you want to talk wishlist I can do that. Here's my shortlist of wants for SageTV - note that there are some of these that are definitely long-shots and probably not coming any time soon:

1. UI - a refresh would be nice. Leave lots of options including keeping the status quo for those who like it how it is now, but a fancy, fresh new UI would be welcomed by many including those who review the product Not just appearance, but focus on simplifying the main UI - the part most end-users use daily. I think this one can happen and could satisfy most existing and potential SageTV users and it is #1 on my list for a reason.
2. Improvements to the Music functions. I have other posts regarding details here, but this is high on my personal wishlist. I want these to be core, built-in improvements - not add-ons
3. Improvements to the Photo functions. see #2 above
4. Placeshifter to mobile devices such as Android/iPhone/WebOS
5. Refresh of the HD Theater with HDMI 1.3 - this is likely not coming soon imo. How about an optional blu-ray drive built in...
6. Easier Plug-in Installation & setup. Work with devs of the "essential" plug-in's to make an easy install package that doesn't require hours of work

There's probably more, but those are the things that come to mind.

#5 (with bitstreaming HD audio over hdmi1.3) is really the only thing critical to me

as an aside, can anyone estimate what % of sageTV users have use an hd100/200?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by cat6man

can anyone estimate what % of sageTV users have use an hd100/200?

A wild guess: 70% of all users (own SageTV 6) or 80% of all active SageTV users