IT seems awfully quiet in the beta department... until now

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Darn bureaucracy of it all In all truth though they are trying to make this changes happen fast.

I wasn't even really thinking about bureaucracy (who decided how to spell that word ), just the logistics and technical aspects.

Even once the FCC "finalizes" AllVid, AFAIK it will just be a list of rules/requirements. From there the industry will have to get together and first decide how they're going to implement it, that will take a long time, just look at AACS, HDMI, and 802.11*. Then you've got to build your products to the spec/standard, and start to roll them out.

I think even if the FCC "finalized" AllVid today it would be a few years before we'd be able to plug SageTV into it.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I wasn't even really thinking about bureaucracy (who decided how to spell that word ), just the logistics and technical aspects.

Even once the FCC "finalizes" AllVid, AFAIK it will just be a list of rules/requirements. From there the industry will have to get together and first decide how they're going to implement it, that will take a long time, just look at AACS, HDMI, and 802.11*. Then you've got to build your products to the spec/standard, and start to roll them out.

I think even if the FCC "finalized" AllVid today it would be a few years before we'd be able to plug SageTV into it.

I don't know who decided how to spell that I was glad I had spell check

I think it could go rather quickly if they go a gateway route and still use the cablecards that are in place today, but who knows. I know the FCC will put a deadline for companies to comply but we have all seen those get pushed back as well.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I think it could go rather quickly if they go a gateway route and still use the cablecards that are in place today, but who knows. I know the FCC will put a deadline for companies to comply but we have all seen those get pushed back as well.

I don't see how it could go quickly. CableCard's existence only helps with the gateway<->cabletv_company side. The problem is, I think it would take them a long time to figure out how to standardize on the tv<->gateway side of things. I know there's some UPnP AV work going on there already, but I can't imagine that would be a quick process.

And besides just agreeing on a protocol, I think there would be a lot of arguments over copy protection, DRM, licensing fees, and testing/certification costs. Then you'd actually have to develop products, and run them through interoperability and conformance testing before certifying them.

From what I understand, it basically took 10 years to go from the law that led to CableCard's creation, to any meaningful deployment of the technology.

[LehighBri]

I'm definitely seeing more and more evidence that the beta is moving forward.

From the BMT google code site (reference to SageTV 7.0.7): http://code.google.com/p/customsaget...e/detail?r=347

From the Phoenix google code site (unzip it and look at the SageTV7 folder... used to be the SageTV3 folder where .stvi files would reside): http://code.google.com/p/sagephoenix...port%20155.zip

Looking forward to when they open this up even further!

[vividweb]

Good sleuthing.

[impro]

I hope the 24p issues of HD200 will be addressed in the new version.
If not I do not see why upgrade.

[lfilomeno]

I truly hope that SageTV v.7 is out soon with a more polished, updated graphical interface. Maybe the announcement of Windows 7 embedded with Media Center functionality might speed up the process of unveiling what they have in store for SageTV users. MY wife saw a Win 7 MC screen the other day and automatically fell in love with the layout and updated themes. True, we do have SageMC but I do believe SageTV needs to update their graphical interface. Eye candy is king; SageTV default interface is dated. Also, with the recent Win 7 embedded announcement, expect to see extenders for their product being developed soon! I have been loyal to SageTV despite all the tweaks and upgrades I have dome to the software to make it look “updated”. If OEM’s can come up with a decent, functional, and unrestrictive media center extenders, then SageTV has to up their game a couple of notches to catch up. My 2 cents

[Clift]

unrestrictive being the key word here. Never happen.

Believe me, i have toyed with the idea of going back to WMC, and the only two things stopping me are:
1) extenders
2) flexibility.

The only real appeal to me is CableCARD support. So, really, the flexibility goes away with CableCARD since commercial skipping is one of my TOP priorities. This windows 7 embedded has the potential to net some new extenders but that remains to be seen. And, again, how flexible will those extenders be? How often will they be updated to fix bugs? Will they support most all current file formats? What about future ones?

No, I think I will be staying with SageTV for the forseeable future. Would I rather just plug in one cable into the back of the server and be done with it? Sure. Am I willing to give up all of everything else that makes SageTV great just for that convenience? Absolutely not.

[lfilomeno]

I am with you Cliff. I just want to see some changes within SageTV that can help teh software move forward and be "the option" when it comes to Digital Media Center implementation. I have spent a lot of time learning the ins nad outs of SageTV. I also came from WMC but their restrictions and poor extenders makes me made the jump.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Clift

This windows 7 embedded has the potential to net some new extenders but that remains to be seen.

I've been trying to figure out what the buzz was about Win 7 Embedded including WMC, is it really some blue-sky hoping for extenders?

I don't see it happening, Windows Embedded has always been nothing more than a very stripped down, customizable version of Windows. Given that MS has shown they have no intention of releasing softsled (PC client) I find it highly unlikely that W7E would include softsled functionality, which I assume would be required for it to be an "extender". More likely, more the idea I think is that you could build a self contained WMC DVR out of W7E, like a Tivo or Moxi type box.

[Brent]

I think Microsoft is making the best move they could have for Media Center with Embedded W7. They just aren't willing to invest much in MC where it comes to hardware and getting MC into CE devices is their best hope of spreading MC to a larger audience. The big questions are how well they did with the embedded implementation and who are the interested CE manufacturers. The answer to those two questions will tell us whether it will be a success or failure...

Think of embedded W7 as a sort of embedded Linux competitor. Problem is, embedding Windows OS in an underpowered CE device results in underwhelming results. So time will tell if we have W7 MC coming to TVs, STBs, Blu-ray players etc.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Brent

Think of embedded W7 as a sort of embedded Linux competitor. Problem is, embedding Windows OS in an underpowered CE device results in underwhelming results. So time will tell if we have W7 MC coming to TVs, STBs, Blu-ray players etc.

You have to remember that Windows 7 isn't your Grandmother's OS. The kernel and support DLL's are designed to be modular. Not sure if they've done this with Windows 7 Embedded but they could conceivably create a version of Windows 7 that is stripped down enough to run quite well on limited hardware.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I've been trying to figure out what the buzz was about Win 7 Embedded including WMC, is it really some blue-sky hoping for extenders?

I don't see it happening, Windows Embedded has always been nothing more than a very stripped down, customizable version of Windows. Given that MS has shown they have no intention of releasing softsled (PC client) I find it highly unlikely that W7E would include softsled functionality, which I assume would be required for it to be an "extender". More likely, more the idea I think is that you could build a self contained WMC DVR out of W7E, like a Tivo or Moxi type box.

Originally Posted by Brent

I think Microsoft is making the best move they could have for Media Center with Embedded W7. They just aren't willing to invest much in MC where it comes to hardware and getting MC into CE devices is their best hope of spreading MC to a larger audience. The big questions are how well they did with the embedded implementation and who are the interested CE manufacturers. The answer to those two questions will tell us whether it will be a success or failure...

Think of embedded W7 as a sort of embedded Linux competitor. Problem is, embedding Windows OS in an underpowered CE device results in underwhelming results. So time will tell if we have W7 MC coming to TVs, STBs, Blu-ray players etc.

I think that you can almost guarantee that MS will use this to try an put Windows on a STB or TV. In true MS fashion (as least in the last 10 years)... they will happily follow apple and google with their ventures. Now that Google has said that Android is being prototyped on STBs and TVs... MS will follow suit. Keep in mind, until Google did this, MS was thinking, how can this make money... and they didn't realize that controlling the gateway to the internet from the TV... there is potential to make money on ads, software store, etc. I can see MS doing this, if for no other reason, because Google is doing it now. In about 5 years, we'll see W7 Embedded on a STB. (I realize MS has tried this in the past, but their focus was a little different.. they we trying to sell a piece of hardware... now it's sell the software, let the manufacturer decide the hardware, but they gain the benefits of having the MS embedded OS with internet, app store, content delivery, extender software, etc).

[stanger89]

It's ironic that MS is moving back to the STB DVR market after abandoning their first attempt:
http://www.ultimatetv.com/

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by stanger89

It's ironic that MS is moving back to the STB DVR market after abandoning their first attempt:
http://www.ultimatetv.com/

I don't know if it's "ironic"... it's just their business model as of late... "If Apple and Google can do it... then so can we" (cue in bob the builder soundtrack) (that'll be lost on most people that don't have small kids)

[limiter]

Originally Posted by Clift

Believe me, i have toyed with the idea of going back to WMC, and the only two things stopping me are:
1) extenders
2) flexibility.

Number 2 is huge for me. The amount of crazy stuff I throw at SageTV and the extender I would never expect to play on WMC even after add-ons, new codecs, and hacks. The sheer number of compatible media formats that the Sage extender handles continues to amaze me. I don't want to transcode or re-encode everything I want to watch, I just want it to play and for the most part it does with SageTV and its extenders.

If all I wanted was something that recorded and played back TV then, sure, I would be looking at software with more intuitive interfaces, or something like the Tivo or Moxi.

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by stuckless

(cue in bob the builder soundtrack) (that'll be lost on most people that don't have small kids)

Everybody now....

CAN WE DO IT???


(Now I'll time to see how long it takes for someone to break down in a fit of compulsion and post the reply. It's kind of like the 'shave and a haircut' bit in Roger Rabbit, or the shiny candy-like red button in Ren and Stimpy. )

Aloha,
Mike

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

CAN WE DO IT???

I've been waiting for Bob to look down, shake his head slowly, and walk away, mumbling: "No, we can't."

BTW: his voice is by Greg Proops, who was often on "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"

- Andy

[toricred]

YES WE CAN!

[impro]

Please fix 24p playback. Get an Asus O!play and reverse engineer it.
Your 24p m2ts playback in stand alone mode is unacceptable.