HTPC question

[dblaine2]

Hi all,

I am a long time SageTV user but I only have SDTV. I talk up how well it works to all my relatives. My brother-in-law may take the bite...

But he has digital cable with some HD channels.

So I was looking at either the HDPVR or the HD Theater.

The other problem is they would need a computer also (their current machines aren't quite up to the task and/or not really dedicated to being a PVR).

Then a copy of SageTV.

They are on a budget so I am concerned that after all said and done it might cost $1000.

Can anyone give me recommendations for a reasonably priced PC? Also HDVR or HD Theater? I see that Dell has some specials on the HDPVR that end soon.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

I think you have some misconceptions about what the HD-PVR and the HD Theater are. They are completely different devices. The HD-PVR is a capture device, designed to capture Component HD Video to a PC. The HD Theater, on the other hand, is a media extender, designed to playback media from a PC to a TV. The ideal setup would have at least one of each. This would not require much in the way of computing power. However, having only one HD-PVR, means only one capture source, which means you can either watch live tv, or record something. Not both. A second HD-PVR with a second STB would provide a MUCH more robust user experience, but then you WOULD be pushing up on that $1000 mark. I'm of the opinion that Sage is not worth the trouble with only one tuner.

[gplasky]

So per your request here is a thought:

Acer EasyStore WHS with 1 TB drive $400
1 HD-PVR deal of the day $150
1 HD Theater w/SageTV Media center for Windows $250

Good base for Home Theater HD recording but it is a $800 solution. But with room to grow. And the WHS (Windows Home Server) can back up the rest of the PCs in the house. (Probably not doing that now.)

You could just get 1 PC that could serve as the server and viewing client (I wouldn't recommend it)and not have to get the HD Theater. But it needs to be a fairly high end (processing and video)PC and again I would think you would still be near that $700-800 nearing $1,000 range.

Food for thought.

Gerry

[dblaine2]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I think you have some misconceptions about what the HD-PVR and the HD Theater are.

Very possible.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

A second HD-PVR with a second STB would provide a MUCH more robust user experience, but then you WOULD be pushing up on that $1000 mark. I'm of the opinion that Sage is not worth the trouble with only one tuner

I would agree but it will be something they "grow" into.


Thanks for the input Fuzzy and Ger!!

[pjpjpjpj]

What are the specs (if you know) of the PC(s) that they have now? Check my sig - if you use the Extender (Theater) and DO NOT watch TV on the server PC, you really don't need much. So instead of that suggested new server PC, you could just get a USB hard drive (1 Tb around $100, or 500 Gb around $80-$90), and then get the extender/software bundle and an HD-PVR (as mentioned above).

The issue, as Gerry said, is that it only gets you one tuner. So you could either get a second HD-PVR (how many digital cable boxes do they have?... they would need one HD-PVR for each box to be used), or perhaps they would be amenable to having another tuner or two that "only" received QAM channels (typically locals and a few random others). If so, you could get an HD Homerun ("HDHR", a dual tuner network device) ($170-$220-ish) and add two more QAM tuners, without needing another card slot in the server PC and without having to pay for any more cable boxes. Then they would just split the cable and run direct coax into the two HDHR tuners.

[dblaine2]

They have 1 desktop PC and 1 laptop. I don't have the specs in front of me but they are fairly good (above 1Ghz). I have to admit before the suggestion of the Theater I was thinking I needed a screaming machine. Chalk it up to being a noob in this area.

The issue with the desktop is it is used by the kids as their gaming machine so it probably has a lot of dowloaded crap and therefore not ideal for PVR.

The laptop is a possiblity but it is used for business so again I didn't want to use it for PVR stuff.

So although just adding storage sounds appealing I don't really have a good place to install SageTV without getting a dedicated box.

They are the oddest people I know... only one TV and there fore only one STB.

I was looking at the HDHR, but doesn't that lead into getting a bigger box?

Thanks for the helpful discussion so far....

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by dblaine2

I have to admit before the suggestion of the Theater I was thinking I needed a screaming machine. Chalk it up to being a noob in this area.

No problem - that's actually what brought me to SageTV. I had no interest in having a "true" HTPC where you watch on the computer - I just wanted a PC "DVR solution" for our TV(s). When I found that Sage had these boxes (the HD Extender) that didn't require you to have a beefed-up PC as your server - meaning, I didn't have to buy a new and expensive machine just for Sage and could still watch HD - I was sold.

Originally Posted by dblaine2

The issue with the desktop is it is used by the kids as their gaming machine so it probably has a lot of dowloaded crap and therefore not ideal for PVR.

If you added an external hard drive that they could not access (or are old enough to be told "don't!"), it could be for your TV recordings and kept separate from what the kids are doing. The CPU cycles required to run Sage are not bad, and if you are recording digital and watching on an extender, then all the server is doing is writing/reading to a drive and not having to actually encode the data. The only concern would be if they were doing something so processor- and memory-intensive that it slowed down Sage - like a really processor-intensive videogame - or if they were doing something that bogged down the network (only likely if you had a 10/100 network, rather than Gigabit).

Or, of course, if they downloaded a virus.

Originally Posted by dblaine2

They are the oddest people I know... only one TV and there fore only one STB.

So they don't do any recording - with a DVR or even an old VCR? Once they see what they can do, they'd probably at least want that simple function... or else they would be forced to watch whatever they were recording. But if they really don't care about that, why have SageTV in the first place?

Originally Posted by dblaine2

I was looking at the HDHR, but doesn't that lead into getting a bigger box?

I don't know which "box" you are referring to, but no to any I can guess. It's just a network device... two coax tuner inputs (from antenna or cable), a power plug, and a network (RJ45) jack. You pretty much plug it in and Sage recognizes it as two available tuners. Because it's networked, it doesn't even have to be near the server PC - they could put it in a closet near where the cable enters their house. Then they would just have to run a single network cable back to their PC (or hub/router/switch).

[dblaine2]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

So they don't do any recording - with a DVR or even an old VCR? Once they see what they can do, they'd probably at least want that simple function... or else they would be forced to watch whatever they were recording. But if they really don't care about that, why have SageTV in the first place?)

Ah but th at's why they are talking to me they want to get a DVR. Kids going to bed early can't watch all their favorite shows after 9 (especially when school starts)

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

I don't know which "box" you are referring to, but no to any I can guess. It's just a network device... two coax tuner inputs (from antenna or cable), a power plug, and a network (RJ45) jack. You pretty much plug it in and Sage recognizes it as two available tuners. Because it's networked, it doesn't even have to be near the server PC - they could put it in a closet near where the cable enters their house. Then they would just have to run a single network cable back to their PC (or hub/router/switch).

The box I was referring to is the PC...

Dave

[dblaine2]

It seems I'm going into the digital age... My wife signed us up for the Comcast triple play. I'll have HD channels in a few weeks but since I only have the original MVP's I won't be able to record/watch them until I can get some money together... hmm... birthday is around the corner

[davephan]

Originally Posted by dblaine2

The issue with the desktop is it is used by the kids as their gaming machine so it probably has a lot of dowloaded crap and therefore not ideal for PVR.

Originally Posted by dblaine2

It seems I'm going into the digital age... My wife signed us up for the Comcast triple play. I'll have HD channels in a few weeks but since I only have the original MVP's I won't be able to record/watch them until I can get some money together... hmm... birthday is around the corner

It sounds like you should avoid using that computer for SageTV, since it will probably become a big hassle.

I found the best way is to have the kids use an older computer. I setup the computer so it is working properly, and take an image of the system. When the kids get their computer screwed up, I simply recover to an image when the 'kids' computer was working. My other computers don't get contaminated by their junk.

The HD-PVR or HDHomeRun, plus a HD-200 would be a good start. The HDHomeRun is good for local digital channels or clear QAM. I don't have many clearQAM channels with Comcast, so I use my HDHomeRun for digital locals. The HD-PVR will record SD or HD from your set top box. The HD-PVR has an IR blaster that will change your set top box channels. I have heard of people having trouble with the HD-PVR IR blaster, so I used a USB-UIRT, which I already had. The HD-PVR connects to the computer with a USB, so make sure you have USB 2, I doubt if USB 1 will work.

I also just signed up for the Comcast triple play. Watch out! They will send you a written contract you have to sign to get the two years without a price jump. You have to make all changes in the first 30 days without effecting the contract. They give you a free DVR for 6 months, but after the other first 6 months, will charge you $16.95 a month for the DVR. I am going to change out their DVR for a regular HD box, which will cost me $7 a month from the start, but it will avoid the $16.95 price jump in 6 months. HBO and Encore are included for free. I also ordered the Starz movie package for $5 per month for 6 months. After 6 months, Starz extra movie package goes to $16.95 per month, so I am cancelling Starz too within the first 30 days. Also, the Comcast representative who set up the deal, told me the cancellation fee is $75. The written contract says the early cancellation fee is $250. The rep was either misinformed or lied about the early cancellation fee. Be very careful you don't make any changes after the first 30 days, or they can jack up the price within the two year contract.

Dave

[dblaine2]

Thanks for intel on the triple play deal...

[Polypro]

You may just want to point your BIL to this forum and pass along a tip or two. If you take point on the project, you have become the support desk...just an FYI from experience (Does he live next door?)

P

[dblaine2]

They are both engineers and from my experience engineers make the worst computer troubleshooters ( sorry if I overly generalize but for me its true )

They are about 100 miles from me and not previously on the remote friends and family support plan

So if they commit to the solution I will setup all the remote admin stuff when I go out there.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by dblaine2

They are both engineers and from my experience engineers make the worst computer troubleshooters ( sorry if I overly generalize but for me its true )

They are about 100 miles from me and not previously on the remote friends and family support plan

So if they commit to the solution I will setup all the remote admin stuff when I go out there.

If you go the HD-PVR route, I would also consider adding another dual-input card (like the Hauppauge HVR-1600) where you get the set of basic analog channels and clear QAM. Your BIL may have all-digital channels, but sometimes having the extra tuner is worth the downgraded view. Besides, analog cards are cheap.

Stu