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SageTV Beta Test Software Discussion related to BETA Releases of the SageTV application produced by SageTV. Questions, issues, problems, suggestions, etc. regarding SageTV Beta Releases should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:58 AM
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Smile Major Channel Setup changes: channel scanning & remapping

A downloadable STV update for the v6.5.18 release candidate is available for testing.


This STV contains major changes for Channel Setup and Related menus. Some of the changes are:

Changes in 2009061901, STV v6.5.18.1:
  1. During QAM channel scan: if major chan number is >= 1008, adjust major & minor chan numbers to determine the correct logical number.


The changes below are now part of the v6.5.18 Release Candidate.

Changes in 2009061901:
  1. Added Play/Pause combo listeners to the channel setup menus for starting previews.
  2. Fixed Remap Channel menu's bug when sorting station list by channel number.
  3. Fixed initial refresh glitch where channel info was shown & then updated sometimes when entering the Scan Results menu.
  4. Modifed results for Update scan to better handle disabled channels there were either lost or now found to be tunable. This prevents some disabled channels from always being listed in the scan results as 'now tunable'. Also, lost remapped channels are reported so they can be cleared & removed if the channels really are no longer valid.
  5. Scan Results: Added option to clear remapped channel if a remapped channel has lost tuning. This can result in clearing out old unused channels from the lineup.
  6. Added additional QAM station name matching to look for DT version of HD-named channel & vice-versa when no dash or space is in the channel name.

Changes in 2009061701:
  1. Modified ATSC and QAM scanning to improve channel matching & mapping. (Example: some QAM channels contain a station name and this might now be able to be matched to a Zap2it station name.)
  2. Added option for Full or Update channel scan.
    • Full scans remap logical and physical channels, enable all found channels, and disable all lost channels.
    • An Update scan tries to preserve logical channel mappings and does not change the enabled status of new/lost channels. The results can be handled on the Channel Scan Results menu.
  3. Added new Channel Scan Results menu, where the main channel modifications from the last scan can be viewed.
  4. When selecting an item on the Scan Results menu, appropriate options are shown for the type of channel modification, including:
    • enable the channel
    • switch old logical # to new logical #, or vice-versa (if applicable)
    • switch old physical # to new physical #, or vice-versa (if applicable)
  5. Save the scan results for each tuner in a server-based property. The last scan results can be viewed after going to other menus and on any UI or even after exiting/restarting SageTV.
  6. Tweak: Added progress bar during the channel scan
  7. Tweak: Progress bar progressively increments to its next status point rather than jumping directly to it; makes for a smoother looking increment.
  8. Tweak: Pop up a dialog to indicate channel preview is initializing. The dialog can be closed while the preview loads. The preview area displays a "please wait" message while the video is loading.
  9. All the channel setup related menus use a preview window only. Background video does not work and previews can be started even if video-on-menus is turned off.
  10. Channel Setup initiated previews stay active on Channel Setup, Remap, and Scan Results menus.
  11. The Channel Remap menu displays the video format string below its preview
  12. Fixed Logical/Physical channel issues during an analog TV tuner channel scan.
  13. Fixed Add Channel menu bug where station ID was allowed to be 0.
  14. Added Station ID display for channels on the channel setup menus.
  15. Tweaked digital scan to check for repeat channel names. If a repeated name is found, then the physical channel number is used as the channel name.
  16. The Remap Channel menu can sort the station list by station name, channel number, or the currently airing show on that channel. channels w/o any EPG data sort by channel name after the channels with airings.
  17. When remapping a channel to another station, ask whether to remap to the other station's logical (guide) number if it is different. Also confirm station remap selection.
  18. ... many other tweaks.

We've been working on improving channel scanning in terms of trying to match channels more accurately when such data is available, and in terms of being able to manually deal with the scan results that either can't be automatically matched or was incorrectly matched. In our tests at SageTV, the new system is working much better, especially with update scans allowing you to rescan without automatically changing most of the things you want left alone -- i.e.: update scans are safer for existing channel maps.

However, I still recommend that you back up your properties files and wiz.bin before using this new STV for your Channel Setup related tasks.

If problems are encountered, please let us know. Thanks for testing.

- Andy
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:00 AM
nyplayer nyplayer is offline
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STV update version 2009061701.

It appears that when you go to channel remap screen ... and sort by " Station List Sorting Method" and you choose channel number it doesn't sort by channel number at all.


PS it is also very slow......
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Last edited by nyplayer; 06-19-2009 at 09:03 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:14 AM
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Sorry, there is definitely a bug I missed when sorting the station list by channel number. Thanks for posting about it & I'll check it out.

Edit: This is fixed and I'll post an update after checking for other issues. For now, don't sort the Remap Channel menu's station list by channel number.

- Andy
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:29 AM
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wrems wrems is offline
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Thatís strangeÖ I just finished the initial Full channel scan on my QAM tuner. It certainly took awhile, which isnít a big deal. At the same time, it left many/most of my available channels as disabled??? Iím having to go through and manually enable them. Is that normal?
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrems View Post
That’s strange… I just finished the initial Full channel scan on my QAM tuner. It certainly took awhile, which isn’t a big deal. At the same time, it left many/most of my available channels as disabled??? I’m having to go through and manually enable them. Is that normal?
Now that its working, I moved this to the main topic for this update.

Perhaps it created new channels because it didn't match the ones the scan found w/existing channels. Then, the left-over channels not found during a digital scan are disabled.

I could tell more by looking at a debug log from when this occurred and the HDHR's scn & frq files -- you did scan with the HDHR first for the QAM tuner, right? Edit: Oh, since you said it took so long, it sounds like the HDHR QAM scan wasn't done in the SiliconDust software first, if you are using Windows.

- Andy
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:33 AM
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Andy

How does this new system change they way we folks with the HDHR work?

Is there a new procedure?

Stacy
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srothwell View Post
How does this new system change they way we folks with the HDHR work?

Is there a new procedure?
Setup is still the same regarding HDHR scanning: scan for QAM first in the SiliconDust software, then in SageTV; scan for OTA ATSC only in SageTV.

(Well, you can scan OTA in the HDHR software if you want to check out the stations, but it won't affect SageTV.)

The changes apply to station matching & dealing with the scan results afterwards, if you need to manually remap, especially for OTA.

- Andy
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:45 PM
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The STV has been updated -- see the first post of this thread for details or here:
STV update version 2009061901

- Andy
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  #9  
Old 06-20-2009, 09:12 AM
Brent Brent is offline
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So far I'm really impressed with the improvements.

One minor bug (I think) I'm still noticing is that when you preview a channel and then preview a second, third etc channel the channel number & name it shows below the preview is always one-off. In other words if I preview channel 227 and then immediately preview channel 228 channel 228 does play in the preview window and the details screen shows the correct number and info, but the little channel # and name below the previewing videos shows 227 in error. Here's an example:


I haven't submitted this as a bug yet as I'm hoping to see if others are experiencing this as well first.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2009, 10:06 AM
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Don't worry too much about the preview window issues like that; we know about it & are working to improve that too.

For now, you might want to stop the preview (use the Stop command) and press Play on the next channel you want to preview.

- Andy
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2009, 10:48 AM
RickE RickE is offline
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Suggestion: Add the station callsign as broadcast

First: the lineup changes are a great improvement. Thanks!

A suggestion: please add the station callsign which is broadcast over the air (ATSC). Several stations in my area use callsigns different than what Zap2It (and Sage) display.

For example:
Sage displays --- Station Broadcasts
9-1 KUSADT --- 9-1 KUSA-DT (no big deal)
9-2 KUSADT2 --- 9-2 WX-Plus (big difference)
9-3 KUSADT3 --- 9-3 NBC Uni (big difference)
7-1 KMGHDT --- 7-1 KMGH-DT (no big deal)
7-2 KMGHDT2 --- 7-27 KZCO-SD (big difference)


This would greatly help when trying to get mappings right by allowing easy mental mapping between what a regular TV displays.

Thanks and regards,
Rick
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickE View Post
A suggestion: please add the station callsign which is broadcast over the air (ATSC). Several stations in my area use callsigns different than what Zap2It (and Sage) display.

For example:
Sage displays --- Station Broadcasts
9-1 KUSADT --- 9-1 KUSA-DT (no big deal)
9-2 KUSADT2 --- 9-2 WX-Plus (big difference)
9-3 KUSADT3 --- 9-3 NBC Uni (big difference)
7-1 KMGHDT --- 7-1 KMGH-DT (no big deal)
7-2 KMGHDT2 --- 7-27 KZCO-SD (big difference)

This would greatly help when trying to get mappings right by allowing easy mental mapping between what a regular TV displays.
OTA channels map using their channel numbers. The reason we don't map to the station names in the OTA broadcast stream is precisely because they don't match the Zap2it name. If they don't match, you won't get the approx. 2 weeks of EPG data from Zap2it unless you manually remap them afterwards to the correct Zap2it stations, in which case the names will be different in the same way as your list above. Preventing the need to manually remap in as many cases as possible is the point of trying to do the correct mapping automatically in the first place.

Another example is from my area... the NYC area has 2 stations that broadcast each other's content on one of their subchannels. I haven't checked since the analog cutoff, but those subchannels used to have the same station name in the broadcast but were SD res instead of HD. I certainly wouldn't want them mapped using the broadcast name & potentially overriding the correct HD broadcast. (On the other hand, I don't want them enabled at all...)

BTW: the channel setup menus now show the station ID as part of the channel info. IDs at or above 10000 are Zap2it range numbers & will usually be able to download EPG data. When you see an ID like 451, that would likely mean the channel couldn't be matched to a Zap2it station & was added to the lineup as a new channel. Those are prime candidates for station remapping.

- Andy
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  #13  
Old 06-20-2009, 11:24 AM
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QAM remapping does try to use station names, though. So, here's a point of data if the stations above were to be from QAM & included station names in the QAM stream. SageTV would try to match these names & their alternates to a Zap2it station name:
  • KUSA-DT would try to match: KUSA-DT, KUSADT, & KUSAHD; match on KUSADT
  • WX-Plus would try: WX-Plus and WXPlus; probably no such match.
  • NBC Uni would try: NBC Uni & NBCUni; no match
  • KMGH-DT would try: KMGH-DT, KMGHDT, and KMGHHD; match on KMGHDT
  • KZCO-SD would try: KZCO-SD, KZCOSD, and KZCO; no match to the stated KMGHDT2, but KZCO might be in the listings.

Most QAM channels don't have station names at all. The broadcast channels have the best chance of finding matches on the first scan.

If no Zap2it name is found, then QAM channels will try to match on physical channel number. That usually won't work unless a previous scan added the channel & you remapped it to the correct station already. So, subsequent full & update scans should preserve the existing mapped channel, thus rescans should be safe unless you decide to clear all remapped channels, destroying all existing channel remappings.

I don't know if that is too much info, but some people might find it useful in dealing with their QAM scans & remapping.

- Andy
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2009, 08:47 AM
elaw elaw is offline
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This is probably a dumb question but... does this STV require the latest beta, or can it be used with earlier versions of Sage (I'm running 6.5.9)?
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2009, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elaw View Post
This is probably a dumb question but... does this STV require the latest beta, or can it be used with earlier versions of Sage (I'm running 6.5.9)?
Since it is part of the v6.5.17 beta, it requires use of the v6.5.17 beta.

- Andy
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2009, 07:54 PM
rfutscher rfutscher is offline
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I tried the first update and had problems.

After a channel scan only 2/3 of the channels had matched.

I had to start over.
I first installed my first HDTV tuner with the Washington channel guide. I stopped before doing a scan.
I then installed the second tuner using the Baltimore guide.
I then scanned both tuners, installed my other two tuners and did a scan on them also.

Almost all the channels were now matched, but I still had no program guide for a lot of channels.

I found that there were multiple listings for each channel. For example WRCDT / WRC-HD, WTTG DT / WTTGDT (note the space), and MHz1 / MHz1. One would have a guide and the rest wouldn't. I still can't find a difference in the MHz1 listings except one has a guide and one doesn't. The match after the scan didn't. I could not find any order to the list of available channels nor could I figure out which had guides and which didn't. I had to pick a channel match and then wait to see if a guide would be downloaded.

I had to do this four times, once for each tuner. I had to keep checking the program guide until each channel was only listed once. Then I had to wait to make sure there was data.

To get all the channels I need multiple antennas. I also have both a version 1 and a version 2 HDTV. With the same antenna they will not receive the same stations. Each tuner needs a different Chanel lineup.

What a pain to have two HDHRs that are different versions. What a pain to need two antennas pointing in different directions. What a pain to live on the edge of two markets.

What a pain when so many channels change their actual transmit channels and the guide lags behind.

Last edited by rfutscher; 06-21-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfutscher View Post
I tried the first update and had problems.
Have you tried the scans with the latest STV update?

Quote:
Almost all the channels were now matched, but I still had no program guide for a lot of channels.

I found that there were multiple listings for each channel. For example WRCDT / WRC-HD, WTTG DT / WTTGDT (note the space), and MHz1 / MHz1. One would have a guide and the rest wouldn't. I still can't find a difference in the MHz1 listings except one has a guide and one doesn't. The match after the scan didn't. I could not find any order to the list of available channels nor could I figure out which had guides and which didn't. I had to pick a channel match and then wait to see if a guide would be downloaded.
As stated above, OTA stations don't match using their names because they are wrong so often ("wrong" in the sense that the names don't match what is shown by Zap2it). Essentially, you need to select the appropriate digital broadcast lineup & then the scan can match the logical or physical numbers to the numbers from the broadcast lineup.

If there are channels not on the lineup, or the numbers don't match anything, then it will add channels that don't map to a Zap2it station. If you can't remap to a Zap2it station manually afterwards, EPG data will only be available for those channels if it is included in the broadcast stream.

BTW: Zap2it stations have IDs at or above 10000.

- Andy
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  #18  
Old 06-22-2009, 06:06 AM
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tmiranda tmiranda is offline
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Andy,

Slightly OT, but certainly related. Is there a way to remove a channel from the lineup? I'm not talking about disabling it, I'm talking about completely removing it.

Thanks,

Tom
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2009, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiranda View Post
Slightly OT, but certainly related. Is there a way to remove a channel from the lineup? I'm not talking about disabling it, I'm talking about completely removing it.
If the channel is built into the lineup, then no. If it is an added channel, then you remove it similar to the old method: clear its logical remapping. This is now accomplished on the new Remap Channel menu by highlighting the button to remap the logical channel number & using the Delete command (you'll see help text saying that when the button is highlighted). After the next EPG update, the channel will be removed.

- Andy
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  #20  
Old 06-22-2009, 04:33 PM
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tmiranda tmiranda is offline
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It's built into the lineup so I guess I'm SOL.

The reason I asked for this is that a week or so ago I had a notification that a recording failed because Sage tried to tune a digital channel on an analog tuner EVEN THOUGH I had that channel disabled in the lineup. (The disabled channel was remapped so I removed the remapping info and have not had the issue since.)

This is probably some type of odd bug but it got me thinking that I'd like to remove all of the channels from the lineup that the tuner can't tune. It just seems like it would be a lot cleaner if I did not have to mess with 200+ channels.

Of course the STV updates in this thread make sorting and managing the lineup a lot easier.
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