Placeshifter and HD-PVR. Does it work?

[ediruzza]

I'm not having any with Placeshifter. I've read a lot of threads on this forum relating to Placeshifter using HD-PVR, but can not find a definitive answer on whether it works or not in HD.

I set up a WHS box...granted the hardware isn't that powerful but I get perfect results with my HD-200.

1) Asus Pundit-P1
2) AMD 64 X2 4400
3) HD-PVR Tuner
4) 2GB Memory
5) 100MB network switch (everything wired)
6) All new drivers from Hauppage (1.0.5.3)
7) 720P on DirectTV Tuner
8) HD-PVR is connected to TV as well using pass-through (component)

Clean install...no software other than HD-PVR, DirectX9 and SageTV WHS version.

Hooked up an HD-200 to it...works perfect! After installing WHS...takes 5 minutes to get everything working. So no problems there.

Connecting PC using Placeshifter
MSI Diva Live 5.1 board
AMD X2 64 4850
2GB Memory
Vista Ultimate 64 Bit
Wired network

I downloaded all the latest builds and drivers for everything.

Tried connecting with Placeshifter...video is choppy as hell. Everything in slow motion. CPU usage on the server is 2-5% when doing this. So don't think its' a resource issue.

I'm trying to use this PC as a Living Room PC with my HD-PVR sitting in my basement hooked up to the Pundit WHS.

Tried all the usual settings under media/audio (VMR9, Arcsoft, etc.)

I even tried the SageTV Client. I get a PlaybackException error when trying to watch Live Tv. Can't get around it. BTW, I'm also gettng PlaybackException on the WHS computer.

Does Placeshifter actually work in HD? I've read a lot about betas, etc. saying that Sage is working on something.

Am I doing anything wrong here?

[stuckless]

I watch my HD recordings, recorded by my HD-PVR, using the placeshifter on the same network. I typically set the option on the placeshifter to tell the server NOT to transcode on the fly, since the client machines are fast enough to do the transcoding locally. But recently, since I've upgraded to the 6.5 release, I've been testing the server's ability to transcode on the fly, for use with my mvp client. So far everything seems to be working well. From time to time, the mvp client (server transcoding on the fly) will stutter.

[ediruzza]

Ok...so you've never used Placeshifter to WATCH HD Tv....only watch recordings?

I would like to try to stay away from MVP for two reasons...1) Trying to keep things simple (good luck with that) and 2) I don't know what MVP is...

So I guess what I'm saying is...has anyone used Placeshifter to actually "watch" live HD TV on a client PC looking at an HD-PVR?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by ediruzza

Ok...so you've never used Placeshifter to WATCH HD Tv....only watch recordings?

I would like to try to stay away from MVP for two reasons...1) Trying to keep things simple (good luck with that) and 2) I don't know what MVP is...

So I guess what I'm saying is...has anyone used Placeshifter to actually "watch" live HD TV on a client PC looking at an HD-PVR?

Welcome to SageTV. Do a little more research. LiveTV in Sage IS a recording. SageTV records the file to the hard drive when you watch "Live TV". So there is no difference watching a program recorded 2 days ago or watching a program in real time. The program is being recorded to the hard drive and then being played by the SageTV client. There is no "live buffer" like you would find in Tivo or other systems. This gives you the capability of pressing the record button during any program at any time (like a 2 hour movie and pressing record 5 minutes before it ends) and retaining the entire program as recorded.

Gerry

[ediruzza]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Welcome to SageTV. Do a little more research. LiveTV in Sage IS a recording. SageTV records the file to the hard drive when you watch "Live TV". So there is no difference watching a program recorded 2 days ago or watching a program in real time. The program is being recorded to the hard drive and then being played by the SageTV client. There is no "live buffer" like you would find in Tivo or other systems. This gives you the capability of pressing the record button during any program at any time (like a 2 hour movie and pressing record 5 minutes before it ends) and retaining the entire program as recorded.

Gerry

Ok...then why does an HD-200 work so well...there's nothing getting recorded on those little boxes...is it all done server side? If it doesn't work with Placeshifter, it shouldn't work with an HD-200. What's the difference?
My client computer is a lot more powerful than the HD-200. Doesn't make sense on paper to me. Can you clear that up?

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by ediruzza

Ok...then why does an HD-200 work so well...there's nothing getting recorded on those little boxes...is it all done server side? If it doesn't work with Placeshifter, it shouldn't work with an HD-200. What's the difference?
My client computer is a lot more powerful than the HD-200. Doesn't make sense on paper to me. Can you clear that up?

Did you try stuckless's suggestion above and turn off the dynamic streaming in Placeshifter? Theoretically, Placeshifter should know that it's on a LAN, and NOT try to compress the stream, but I've had mixed results. If you're always going to be on the LAN with this particular PC, just turn it off.

You're correct in that the server simply streams the file to the HD-200 without compression; if the file is NOT being compressed to Placeshifter, then compression is not the issue.

[stuckless]

You could try copying a recorded file from the server and play it on your local computer... if it plays file, then maybe you have some network issues. On my wireless desktop computer, I used to have some pausing when I played HD content over the network, simply because my wireless connection could not keep up.

[ediruzza]

Ok...tried a few more things. Took "stuckless" advice and copied a .TS file from the server over to the client PC. It was 4GB and copied over my WIFI in about 6 minutes. That seems fairly fast and doesn't sound like it could be network.

Next, I tried running it with VLC (0.9.9). Absolutely no luck...very, very choppy. Tried the various suggestions from other threads on making that work. No luck.

Next, I tried running Total Media Theatre (software that comes with HD-PVR). Video and audio run a little bit better but still nothing you could watch. So for yucks, I looked at the property info for the file in TMT. Says it was recorded at 1980x1080.

Is that the problem? From what that's telling me...Placeshifter is trying to deal with that stream of 1980x1080. Is that even possible?

[vividweb]

If you can't the file to play with other software I thinking that your machine may not be powerful enough, but the motherboard you have should work. It may be a codec issue. Are you getting lots of CPU usage when playing the file?

[ediruzza]

OK...so I recorded a show this morning in 720P with Sage. Copied the file over to my local computer and tried playing it with Total Media Theatre. Better than 1080P but still choppy. Resources were pretty much pegged at 90 - 100%.

Figured I try another 1080P file...so I downloaded a 1080P clip from here. It's an 'mp4' file. It plays a little choppy. Resources were going from 80% - 100% pretty much all the time. This file uses 'avc1' codec rather than H.264.

Next, I downloaded a 720P movie trailer from here. Plays perfectly. Resources running at about 60-75%.

Hmmm...checked the system requirements for running HDTV on the Sage website....

"For HDTV Playback: 3Ghz processor or higher or a slower processor in combination with a video card utilizing DXVA support and using a decoder which supports DXVA"

OOPS! I'm running 2Ghz with 1GB memory. So is that basically the bottom line? Do I need a stronger processor?

I'm really not sure how to check if my card supports DXVA. Is there a utility for this somewhere out there?

BTW, thanks everyone for reading and replying. This is a great forum!

[ediruzza]

Ok guys...I have an update on this issue.

I decided to download Arcsoft Total Media Theatre 3 Platinum (21 day trial).

Played the 720P and 1080P files I mentioned in my previous post and they both play absolutely perfectly and were only using about 20 - 40% resources.

Is the codec they use with TMT3 that good?

I still really can't get placeshifter to play any recorded tv shows off the server.

Also, I loaded everything onto a computer with the following specs.

1. MSI Diva Live 5.1 Board (7411)
2. AMD 5050e X2
3. 2GB Memory
4. Vista 64-bit

Very frustrating...any ideas?

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by ediruzza

Also, I loaded everything onto a computer with the following specs.

1. MSI Diva Live 5.1 Board (7411)
2. AMD 5050e X2
3. 2GB Memory
4. Vista 64-bit

What's the graphics core on that machine? I assume it's integrated since you don't list a card specifically. It may be that the TMT3 driver enables hardware based playback on the graphics card, where most of the "standard" codecs do not.

It's also possible that TMT3 installed and setup the codecs properly and previously you were using different codec's than thought, which could account for some of the disparity. Have you tried running the same files through WMP or Sage now?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I watch my HD recordings, recorded by my HD-PVR, using the placeshifter on the same network. I typically set the option on the placeshifter to tell the server NOT to transcode on the fly, since the client machines are fast enough to do the transcoding locally.

Is this the case for both 720p and 1080i or just one of the two formats? Are you using analog audio or SPDIF?

[ediruzza]

Originally Posted by wayner

Is this the case for both 720p and 1080i or just one of the two formats? Are you using analog audio or SPDIF?

Yes, this is the case for both 720P and 1080i...no difference. I am using SPDIF.

[ediruzza]

Originally Posted by Djc208

What's the graphics core on that machine? I assume it's integrated since you don't list a card specifically. It may be that the TMT3 driver enables hardware based playback on the graphics card, where most of the "standard" codecs do not.

It's also possible that TMT3 installed and setup the codecs properly and previously you were using different codec's than thought, which could account for some of the disparity. Have you tried running the same files through WMP or Sage now?

The chipset on that board is the ATI HD 3200 RADEON. It is optimized to handle HD content. Other users (not Sage users) using this board swear by it.

I haven't tried WMP but Sage does not work.

[vividweb]

I'm thinking that by reinstalling arcSoft you upped the priority on the decoders for arcsoft and they are using DXVA properly.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by ediruzza

The chipset on that board is the ATI HD 3200 RADEON. It is optimized to handle HD content. Other users (not Sage users) using this board swear by it.

I haven't tried WMP but Sage does not work.

Is Sage setup to use the Arcsoft decoder in the settings menu? What about the audio side of things? I've had issues trying to use the nVidia MPEG codec with AC3 for audio. Turned off AC3 and all was golden, might be a similar issue here.

[ediruzza]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Is Sage setup to use the Arcsoft decoder in the settings menu? What about the audio side of things? I've had issues trying to use the nVidia MPEG codec with AC3 for audio. Turned off AC3 and all was golden, might be a similar issue here.

Yes, it's setup to Arcsoft decoder. Turn off AC3? You mean in the Audio section? Haven't tried that.

Guys, don't forget...this things works perfectly with HD-200. Not sure if that really means anything but I figure if the HD-200 works, wouldn't the Sage CLient or Sage Placeshifter work.

I have tried this on just about every OS as well (Windows XP SP2, Vista Ultimate and I even got a pre-release of Windows 7 Build 7100). All have the exact same results.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by ediruzza

Yes, it's setup to Arcsoft decoder. Turn off AC3? You mean in the Audio section? Haven't tried that.

Which audio decoder are you using. I had problems where I had specified the nVidia decoder for both but for whatever reason the AC3 decoder was intercepting the audio. I disabled it outside of Sage which let audio get routed to the nVidia decoder and all was well.

Guys, don't forget...this things works perfectly with HD-200. Not sure if that really means anything but I figure if the HD-200 works, wouldn't the Sage CLient or Sage Placeshifter work.

Sage Client uses the client computer's resources to perform playback. So if the client machine is powerful enough to play the file outside of Sage (and there are no bottlenecks with the network) then HD-PVR files should play fine within the client once setup properly. I have in fact done this, even got it working over a wireless connection (though a very good one, this changes quickly as signal quality drops).

The HD100/200 acts more like a client than a placeshifter, and has dedicated hardware and software for performing HD-PVR playback. All the heavy lifting is done on the extender via this hardware.

Placeshifter is a completely different animal. Due to the way data is moved and playback is handled between the two devices this has been ugly.

Have you tried to install TMT3 on the server as well as the client? Since the server is more heavily involved in Placeshifter playback it could be part of the problem.

[ediruzza]

Used 'codesniper' and removed AC3 codec - still no go...It didn't show up on the Detailed Setup tab either so I think it's gone.

Went as far as downloading beta 1.0.5.4 driver from Hauppauge for HD-PVR...still no go...

Ok...also loaded Windows 7 Build 7100 on another PC. Only loaded the basic OS along with SageTV, HD-PVR drivers. SageTV works fine on server. Go over to client...same problem...PlaybackException...

I'm really starting to think that there is a problem with HD-PVR working through the Sage client.

Has anyone actually got this working?