ATI Composite In For Digital Channel

[thomseye]

Ok, first off, I've searched the forums, but every time I thought I found a thread that would help answer my question, it wouldn't... so I apologize if this has been answered a million times already...

Here's what I need to do... I have an ATI 550 card with TV Tuner and a Dongle for Composite/S-Video Input. For my digital channels, I can not tune them in with my card, so I must run a composite cable from the cable box into my composite -in- on my ATI Card/Dongle.

What I'd like to do, is set up my "composite in" to be able to record a digital channel (obviously the cable box would have to be tuned to that channel). The specific channel is #106 that is digital that I'd like to record. I have channel #1 as my "composite in"...

How do I go about remapping channel #106 to both show guide data and to be able to record this channel using SAGETV with the composite in on my card?

I've tried remapping channel #106 to channel #1, but I get snow... I've tried remapping channel #1 to #106, I get guide data on channel #1, but the picture is also snow.

I know I'm screwing something up with regard to the logical/remapping/physical options... just not sure what combination to use. Btw, if I just plug the composite cables into my dongle/card without any remapping, I do get a picture (whatever the cable box is tuned into at the time) on channel #1 (which is the channel I selected to be my composite in channel number in setup).

Please help!!! I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance!

thomseye

[Opus4]

I don't believe you need to do any channel mapping -- you just need to configure the tuner to work that way.

When configuring the source in SageTV, you tell it to use the composite input with an external tuner, then configure some sort of method to change channels on the external box, such as an IR blaster, firewire, etc. SageTV hen changes the channel on the box as needed.

- Andy

[thomseye]

Thanks for the quick response and moving my thread to the appropriate place.

Yikes... I don't have the means for external channel changing, but I can set up my box to turn on and off and change channels at selected times. I just need SAGETV to be able to download the Program Guide Data but instead of trying to record the digital channel #106 (which results in recording snow), it will instead choose to record using the composite in.

If this is possible, please let me know how. Again, I do get a picture on my composite in (CH#1), but that's if I leave it alone as composite -in-. If I leave it this way, I won't be able to set up recordings automatically, I'd have to go through my listings and set up CH#1 to manually record at "X" time and stop at "X" time.

So, without being able for sagetv to change my digital tuner box, how can I get my composite in to record from my digital cable box, while sagetv treats my composite in as an actual channel (for guide data and the ability to setup automatic recordings).

Thanks again!
thomseye

[Opus4]

I'm not familiar with the ATI 550, so I don't know what you mean about the composite input being channel #1 -- maybe somone else using that card will have something to say.

Normally, the composite input is just that: a composite input w/o a channel associated with it, just like svideo would be. Any channel changning would be done on the external tuner (STB).

- Andy

[CollinR]

Buy a USBUIRT, it will change the channels on the box.

I think he means he can only get 1 channel, which is how it is with a composite input and nothing to change the channels.

Otherwise you would have to do some tinkering as channel 1 as far as I know isn't on anyones lineup you have to add it to get channel 1 or 0 to work.

[thomseye]

This doesn't seem like it would be an ATI 550 issue only. I'm aware of a lot of tuner cards that have an antenna in (cable or over the air) and a composite/s-video input. Seems like I should be able to use the composite in for an external tuner with guide data.

All that would need to happen is to make SAGETV think channel 1 (composite in) is channel #106. I thought that was what remapping was all about... I may be wrong apparently.

I have no problem tuning all the analogue channels through the pci card, but because it doesn't have a digital tuner, I need to send the digital channels through the composite or s-video straight from the digital cable box.

I am surprised this is such a unique issue. Back in the day (couple years ago), the ATI All-In-Wonder had composite/s-video in for recording from external devices (i.e. camcorder, vcr, cable box, video games). Doesn't anyone else have s-video/composite inputs? Seems natural people would want to be able to record using these inputs from a digital cable box, etc...

Maybe I'm way off base... but I am surprised.

If there is no way to make SAGETV think my composite in is actually channel #106, then I will have to manually scan the listings and manually set up recordings for all the shows I want to record from channel #106 and select channel #1 (this will be connected to my digital cable box and tuned to channel #106).

stumped
thomseye

[thomseye]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I'm not familiar with the ATI 550, so I don't know what you mean about the composite input being channel #1 -- maybe somone else using that card will have something to say.

Normally, the composite input is just that: a composite input w/o a channel associated with it, just like svideo would be. Any channel changning would be done on the external tuner (STB).

- Andy

My issue isn't the changing of the channels externally... it's getting SAGETV to show channel 1 as channel 106 in the guide, so when I record it will be recording from the external device, not from the tuner.

Thanks for the input, no matter.
peace
thomseye

[apt1506]

setup --> setup video sources --> add new source --> ati 550 --> composite --> ... then pick the epg lineup u need.... now, since u have no way of controlling ur external box w/ sage, u have to somehow make sure it's gonna be tuned in the channel u wanna record.... no matter what channel u pick to record on sage, it's always gonna be the same external box channel....

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by thomseye

This doesn't seem like it would be an ATI 550 issue only. I'm aware of a lot of tuner cards that have an antenna in (cable or over the air) and a composite/s-video input. Seems like I should be able to use the composite in for an external tuner with guide data.

All that would need to happen is to make SAGETV think channel 1 (composite in) is channel #106. I thought that was what remapping was all about... I may be wrong apparently.

My point, as also posted above, is that unless there is something different about how you use the composite/svideo input on the ATI 550, the composite input isn't channel 1. It isn't any channel; it does no tuning whatsoever. It is simply a video input.

SageTV records from that input w/o having to tune anything on the capture card. What gets tuned is the external converter box. All channels in the EPG for that source refer to channels that can be set on the external box -- channel 106 is channel 106 on the external box; it is not any channel on the composite input -- unless the ATI 550 treats the composite input differently from almost all other capture devices.

Even when using the coax tuner input on a tuenr card set to a fixed channel number connected to an external box, the fixed channel number isn't what you see in the guide; the guide contains the channels you tune on the external box.

Please see the source setup steps outlined in the SageTV PDF manual, in chapter 5, around p. 149 for the v6.4 PDF manual.

- Andy

[thomseye]

Originally Posted by Opus4

My point, as also posted above, is that unless there is something different about how you use the composite/svideo input on the ATI 550, the composite input isn't channel 1. It isn't any channel; it does no tuning whatsoever. It is simply a video input.

Please see the source setup steps outlined in the SageTV PDF manual, in chapter 5, around p. 149 for the v6.4 PDF manual.

- Andy

We are totally on the same page. I understand you completely. I will check out the PDF that you mentioned.

To be totally clear about what I am trying to do...

If something comes on my external digital cable box that I want to watch later, I'd like to be able to record that show on SAGETV. SAGETV assigned my composite as channel #1... this is not important. In the guide if I record channel 106, i get snow, because my tuner can't tune the digital signal. So this is where I need to find a way to get SAGETV to see my composite input as channel 106, so when I find a show on channel 106 I want to record, it will record from the composite in rather than channel 106.

External control is not a problem, I can set timers on the cable box to turn on and off and change channels at given times... I just need SAGETV to look at the composite in, instead of channel 106 when something on channel 106 is scheduled to be recorded.

Somehow, we're missing each other with these details. It's a very simple issue... Instead of sagetv recording channel 106 in the guide, I need it to "think" that my composite in is channel 106.

Thanks again. I'm a computer tech and I've dealt with many people who have needed to have their hand held with such simple things as uncompressing a file using winrar. It drives me crazy that people don't understand simple things. So I apologize if I'm doing this to you.

thomseye

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by thomseye

SAGETV assigned my composite as channel #1... this is not important.

Yes, I think it is important; in fact, it seems to be the biggest problem I see with your description so far... how did it get to be channel 1?

In step 2A of source setup, did you select Composite?

In 3A, did you tell it to use an external receiver or to not configure tuning? Since you have no IR blaster, I'm guessing you would not configure tuning.

*** In step 7, did you choose to configure guide data? If you only have 1 channel assigned to the composite input, then I'm guessing that no guide data was configured for that source... in which case, SageTV has no idea what channels you can tune for that source & therefore has no idea what shows can be recorded. You need to configure the EPG lineup for that source & should be able to do so via the Source Details page for that source.

- Andy

[thomseye]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Yes, I think it is important; in fact, it seems to be the biggest problem I see with your description so far... how did it get to be channel 1?
- Andy

Ok, I'm starting to put 2 and 2 together... I presumed I needed to assign a channel for my composite -in- in order to be able to choose that input. (I assume I a wrong now)

I will go to sleep now and go over this thread and the PDF tomorrow to try to get this together.

Maybe my brain blockage was all due to the fact that I needed to have a channel number assigned to both my s-video in and composite video in (or else, how could I choose that signal?)

It seems you're telling me that I can choose composite in without a channel number assigned to it at all. I will go back into setup and go slowly to see how everything looks. Maybe I blitzed through setup a bit faster than I should have.

I'll report back... and thanks for letting me take up your valuable time. You don't have to, but the fact that you are says a lot about ya'.

peace
thomseye

[stuckless]

It seems, from the posts, that you are using your ATI card for both a tv tuner (for regular channels) and an analog capture device (for digital channels). This in intself may be problematic... but i would think that you'd need to setup 2 sources....

The first source would select the ati card, and use it like a regular tuner. in the epg... turn off all digital channels.

The second source would select the ati card, and configure it using external cable box. In it's epg, you'd turn off the reg channels and only leave the digital channels.

This setup is problematic, since Sage may let you record two shows at the same time, but your tuner won't allow for that.

My suggestion.... keep the ati tuner as a regular tuner, and get a second sd capture device with ir blaster to control the cable box.

[thomseye]

Something isn't making any sense at all...

I've been told in this thread that my "composite in" shouldn't have a channel number assigned to it. If this is so, I can not for the life of me find a way to record using the "composite in". There is no option to record from composite, just the TV Tuner channels. If it has a channel associated with it, I can record whatever is being fed into the "composite in".

When I added it as a video source, I believe it automatically gave it a channel number. (I have two video sources... One is ATI Tuner and the other is ATI Analogue Composite In).

I did what someone else mentioned earlier in the thread. I set up my "composite in" with the EPG, but then SAGETV deleted my other Video Source (ATI Tuner).

I deleted the source that remained and started over...

I then tried to add my "composite in" source but it wouldn't let me associate it with a channel line up. I added my "TV Tuner" source and associated it with the cable system I belong to... I then looked at my channel line up for my tv tuner source and it still has Channel 1 : Composite In.

I started over again.

I added my "Composite In" source and this time it let me associate a channel line up. But when finished, it had deleted my other source (tv tuner) again.

WTF?

It seems it allows me to have two video sources, but as soon as I associate the same channel lineup for both (I'd be using only the analogue for the TV Tuner Source and only the Digital channels for the Composite In Source), it deletes one of the video sources.

thomseye

[thomseye]

Btw, external control of the cable box isn't a concern. I can setup my cable box to turn on and off and select a certain channel to be on... completely independent of SAGETV.

I just need SAGETV to be able to record whatever is coming in through the composite in source. Preferably using the guide.

I know I can manually tell sage tv to record "X" Channel at "X" time... i.e. Record channel 1 (composite in) at 7:00pm - 7:30pm. But I'd prefer to be able to (within the EPG) to record "X" Show (or through managing favorites) but instead of on the tv tuner source it would record through my composite in source (for my digital channels only).

I am struck at how confused I have made everyone. This really seems like a software issue rather than a hardware issue. All the hardware works properly. It's just getting SAGETV to do what I need it to do via the configuration.

thomseye

[thomseye]

Ok, after tinkering all afternoon... I've finally got both sources set up. The only way to do this was to choose a different channel line up for the second source. I chose Basic for my TV Tuner source and Extended Basic for my Composite In source.

Btw, it still gives me channel #1 as my composite in channel in the program guide.

There were a number of posts above that questioned this, but I have no control over this... Once I add my composite in source, SAGETV assigns it to channel 1.

Now I will test to see if when I choose a digital channel to record that it looks at the composite in for the source.

thomseye

[thomseye]

Ok, here's the correct question and correct answer to my problem...

How do I use two sources... One for Analogue using the PCI Tuner Card and One for Digital Cable using the Composite In that is also connected to the same PCI Tuner card via a dongle (without automatic external tuner control)?

Answer:

Set up both sources:

Set up the tuner and select all analogue channels in your EPG. Then set up the Analogue Composite In as your second source, but do not choose the exact same cable source (i.e. Make one Basic Cable and the other Extended Basic Cable... choosing the same i.e. Extended Basic Cable for both deletes the first video source you set up).

When selecting channels during setup of your video sources, select only the analogue channels for the TV Tuner Video Source.... When selecting channels for your Composite In Video Source, only choose the Digital Channels.

Now, set up your digital cable box to tune to the correct channels and correct times that the shows you want to record are airing and make sure you connect the composite out on your cable box to the composite in on the PCI card.

Then, in your program guide, make sure that the scheduled recordings that air on any of the digital channels are synchronized with the cable box.

Now, whenever a scheduled recording is an analogue channel it will tune it using the PCI tuner... whenever a scheduled recording is a digital channel it will record whatever is being fed into the composite in (just make sure the cable box is tuned to the channel you want recorded... which is easy... just look at your scheduled recordings and then sit down in front of your cable box and program your "VCR Timers" to be the same).

That's what I wanted... and I finally got there. Thanks to the person who said to add the video source, select EPG, make sure cable box is tuned correctly. ... It was a bit more difficult than that, but it is possible doing what I mentioned above.

Thanks for all your help to everyone.

thomseye

[thomseye]

Originally Posted by apt1506

setup --> setup video sources --> add new source --> ati 550 --> composite --> ... then pick the epg lineup u need.... now, since u have no way of controlling ur external box w/ sage, u have to somehow make sure it's gonna be tuned in the channel u wanna record.... no matter what channel u pick to record on sage, it's always gonna be the same external box channel....

Thanks! It was a bit more difficult than that, but you understood my question more than anyone and got me thinking on the right track. See my post above for all that needed to be done.

peace
thomseye

[thomseye]

Originally Posted by stuckless

It seems, from the posts, that you are using your ATI card for both a tv tuner (for regular channels) and an analog capture device (for digital channels). This in intself may be problematic... but i would think that you'd need to setup 2 sources....

Thanks! You and the other person I thanked above got me in the right direction. Btw, I already had two sources setup... I just never thought that I could assign an EPG with my composite in source because it wasn't a tuner (this threw me off). See what I had to do (specifically) to make it work in my above post.

That All-In-Wonder card from a few years ago wouldn't let you do that with the ATI MMC software... so I didn't even think of it with SAGETV.

Thanks again!
peace
thomseye

[thomseye]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Yes, I think it is important; in fact, it seems to be the biggest problem I see with your description so far... how did it get to be channel 1? - Andy

Thanks for your help... everything is working now. But your avatar is killing me. I just had to put my best friend to sleep... she was dying in my arms and she was the best cat I've ever known. ;( Man, I miss her every second of every day.

Seriously, thanks for your time!