My EPG Experience...

[Azam]

(If you don't want to read the "story" behind this, and would like to help me with my questions, skip to the bottom please.)

As of currently, I am not really sure what to think of the SageTV service when it comes to EPG data. For the most part, everything works fine. I have two HDTV stations which are not currently listed in my guide. I decided, as suggested on these forums to report the difference to SageTV support. Now, I had already done the research on the Zap2It web site (they have the missing channels listed under the same heading that I am using in the SageTV software) and got the station IDs. I continue to have "No Data" on these channels despite entering in the information. So I sent the following:

Subject: Incorrect HDTV EPG Information

Provider: Broadcast
Lineup: Madison - Digital Broadcast
Zip Code: 53559

There are a number of missing channels in the EPG:

20 WHADT2 (Zap2it #35635 - Virtual Channel 21.2) (20-20-2)
20 WHADT3 (Create TV - unlisted on zap2it web site - Virtual Channel 21.3) (20-20-3)

32 WBUWDT (Zap2it #45563 - Virtual Channel 57.1) (32-32-1)
32 WBUWDT2 (Zap2it #18964 - Non-HD broadcast of The WB - Virtual
Channel 57.2) (32-32-2)

In any case, the first response I got was a tutorial from them on how to set the information up. I think I already had this figured out, but to give them a shot, I switched to the "Local Broadcast" -- it has both analog and digital listings in it -- listing instead of the "Digital Broadcast" listing and tried their instructions. This was their response:

SageTV Support wrote:
Jason,

You need to add the station ID for the analog counterpart. First make
sure that the analog station that matches up is not in the guide. Now
add the channel as before.

To get the station ID for a channel you can go to Zap2it's website.
http://www.zap2it.com/index You type in your zip code and then select
local broadcast listings. The channels you see listed here are the
channels we support. There are two ways to get the station ID. First
you can hover your mouse over the channel on the left side and look at URL
that pops up below.
Or you just click on that channel and you can look at the URL in the
address bar in your browser. In the URL you will see
"station_num=XXXXX". That 5 digit number listed there is the station ID.
Example "station_num=12345"
will equate to a station ID of 12345.

Example for WHA, use station ID 11494. You have the correct ID for WBUW.

Thanks,

George Oms

I replied to this with another sum-up of what I was experiencing:

It would be nice if the feed that SageTV gets would be updated to include
the missing channels by default

I have double checked all the suggestions you gave, and none of them have
helped. I even switched to using the "Madison - Local Broadcast"
lineup since it includes both digital and analog to see if it would help. It
would seem that the two feeds that I need for WHADT2 and WBUWDT are not
available to SageTV. WHADT3 actually gets guide data, but I am using a
Zap2It number from Los Angeles, as they have the same lineup on one of their
stations.

Here are the channel listings currently for my HTDV tuner (broadcast)

( ) 3 WISC (Analog - Tuner does not support)
(X) 11 WMSNDT (Included in default guide. Listings are correct.)
( ) 15 WMTV (Analog - Tuner does not support)
(X) 19 WMTVDT (Included in default guide. Listings are correct.)
(X) 20 WHADT (Included in default guide. Listings are correct.)
(X) 20 WHADT2 (I added this channel using 35635 which is the correct lineup
number from Zap2It's web grid. It shows "No Data" for all shows.)
(X) 20 WHADT3 (I added this channel using 43780 which is a lineup from a
different PBS station using the same CreateTV feed/lineup - I get program
listings for this channel)
( ) 21 WHA (Analog - Tuner does not support)
(X) 26 WKOWDT (Included in default guide. Listings are correct.)
( ) 27 WKOW (Analog - Tuner does not support)
(X) 32 WBUWDT (I added this channel using 45563 which is the correct lineup
number from Zap2It's web grid. It shows "No Data" for all shows.)
( ) 47 WMSN (Analog - Tuner does not support)
(X) 50 WISCDT (Included in default guide. Listings are correct.)
(X) 50 WISCDT2 (Included in default guide. Listings are correct.)
( ) 57 WBUW (Analog - Tuner does not support)

(X) = Active channel - shows up in guide.

I also had pasted them the info from my sage.properties file, hoping that this could help them in some way figure out that I knew what was going on and that the listing either isn't downloading or isn't translating.

In either case, this was their response tonight:

Jason,

Unfortunately we only get the date if that channel has an analog station. If
it's a digital station without the analog counterpart we don't get the data.


For example WBUWDT use station id 18964 which is for station WBUW. And for
WHADT2 us station id 11494.

George

Now my confusion comes in that 1, they have never said that they will contact (e-mail I assume) Zap2It to try and correct the problem, and 2, there IS an analog station (along with ID) for both stations in both my cable and OTA listings (although they are disabled in the OTA listings, since this is a HD card.)

In the end, I sent a response to them stating that I understand that they can't fix the problem for me, and that I would like them to pass on the incorrect information to Zap2It to have them correct the downloaded feed. Obviously these channels already exist in their web guide, and it would be nice if they could do whatever it takes to bring their downloaded listing up to date. Does SageTV actually do this, or is it simply an urban legend from the FAQ files?

In any case, here is where I could use some help. First, it won't let me use those ID numbers because they are already in use for the "cable" guide information for my other tuner card. If I delete that card will it then let me put these numbers in? (And then re-add the card after the fact, obviously.)

Second, if I do this, I am going with the assumption that the HD flag will not ever be set in the channel listings giving me no way to tell if a program is HD or not. I am assuming this because the listing they are refering me to is for the SD broadcast (both cable and OTA) listing. Am I wrong?

-Jason

[rfutscher]

Originally Posted by Azam

In any case, the first response I got was a tutorial from them on how to set the information up. I think I already had this figured out, but to give them a shot, I switched to the "Local Broadcast" -- it has both analog and digital listings in it -- listing instead of the "Digital Broadcast" listing and tried their instructions. This was their response:

-Jason

I tried to make this work but ran into problems.

I first deleted the stations that I manually entered and tried to enter them again. What I found is that I never get the third dialog box where you enter the station ID number.

My record drive filled up and Sage crashed. I had to reinstall Sage to get it to work again. This time I was prepared with the station ID numbers. For some unlisted stations that I manually entered I had no problems. I got the third dialog box, I entered the number and found that they now had program listings.

For some stations I never got the third dialog box and couldn't enter the number. This seemed totally random. One station gave me the third dialog box for one sub channel but four subchannels for the same station did not. I found I had a listing for one subchannel but four subchannels did not have any program listings. Has anyone discovered the trick to make this work?

I am running the latest Beta as a service.

[Azam]

It is based on whether the station name you used was already used for a channel that you either deleted or is included in another guide. As for the numbers, I have to stations which the digital numbers do not work. I have been told by SageTV support that they do not get the digital listings from Zap2It...which seems odd to me, since I have a listing "Madison - Digital Broadcast" in the guide setup. In any case, the numbers for the two missing channels do not work since they supposedly don't get those feeds. As I have been told by support there is no way to get these channels working for me. (Yes, those were their words.)

I have come to the conclusion that the guide, as well as the way they set up the digital channels is rudimentary at best. I suppose I will make do for now as There is only one show I would record on the "missing" channel, and I can get it over cable in SD anyways. Hopefully someday down the road they will take a look at how they handle the channels as well as the listings and make them a bit better. Kinda saddens me that they have been outperformed by a M$ product in this area (MCE).

Edit: As an after thought, I know I probably could get all this working using an xmltv plugin, but really don't want to take the time after the multiple hours I have already spent trying to get this part to work.

[rfutscher]

I finally got my program guide for manually added channels working.

Every time I sent a message to Tech Support I never got a reply that was of any help. Never did they send me any procedure for manually adding channels and how to set them up to get the program guide info.

The important steps are:

Make sure that you use DTx at the end of the station ID to select the sub channel.

Follow the procedure in this thread to get the channel program guide ID number from Zap2it.

It the dialog box to add the ID number doesn't appear, delete the channel, wait until the guide is downloaded again, and then re add the channel again. This time the dialog box for the program guide number should appear.

Originally Posted by rfutscher

I tried to make this work but ran into problems.

I first deleted the stations that I manually entered and tried to enter them again. What I found is that I never get the third dialog box where you enter the station ID number.

My record drive filled up and Sage crashed. I had to reinstall Sage to get it to work again. This time I was prepared with the station ID numbers. For some unlisted stations that I manually entered I had no problems. I got the third dialog box, I entered the number and found that they now had program listings.

For some stations I never got the third dialog box and couldn't enter the number. This seemed totally random. One station gave me the third dialog box for one sub channel but four subchannels for the same station did not. I found I had a listing for one subchannel but four subchannels did not have any program listings. Has anyone discovered the trick to make this work?

I am running the latest Beta as a service.

[stevech]

Doesn't TiVo use Zap2It for their EPG?

Implication: TiVo's users don't have these problems?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by stevech

Doesn't TiVo use Zap2It for their EPG?

Implication: TiVo's users don't have these problems?

Don't Tivo users pay for this?

Gerry

[wtsitmn]

In my humble opinion, official SageTV support is almost worthless. This forum is where the real answers can be found. The people here seem to know infinitely more than official SageTV support, and they're all very helpful. So if you’re seeking genuinely helpful and knowledgeable people, then this is the place to be.

I’ve tried several times to report a problem to Sage concerning their tuner setup, but the official company response was rarely more than static. Now after hours of research and hard work on my part, I finally tracked down my recent EPG troubles to the very same issue I reported! I’m sorry, but the official company suggestions of changing settings back and forth are not a solution. They're an admission that their software is screwed up and they know it. Being a programmer myself, I know a lot about software design and bugs. Unfortunately, I also know how management minimizes maintenance efforts in order to reduce costs and boost profits. Once a software product has been developed, most software companies shift their focus to new features in order to boost sales. There is no money to be made by researching and fixing bugs.
Climbing down from my soap box now...