SAGETV - Great, but need to look else where

[nurowolf]

After an initial bad experience with Sage, I have come to find this probably the best PVR available on the market.

My intention was to use Meedio as my front end and Sage TV as my PVR. This all worked fine for a single source external cable and a single source over the air antenna

However my system has 3 sources

External Box 1 - Coaxial
External Box 2 - SVideo
OTA 1 - Coaxial

I am using a PVR500MCE Card to support this.

My issue is not that Sage can't support this configuration - but I cannot get it to work with 2 external tuner programs with different command lines.

I use girder and Global cache to change the channels on the STB's I could get this to work for 1 external STB but never 2.

After getting SAGE to support
- Chinese Chars
- 3 XMLTV EPG sources
- 1 OTA & 1 External STB

I have to admit defeat on my final STB.

I was able to get this to work on other PVR applications that are functionally / quality wise inferior to Sage. But this is my stumbling block.

Until I can get an easy way to address this I need to stop laying with Sage.

Thanks for the support I got. Also the amount of information in the forums is unbelievable - might be worth investing in making some of these plugins part of the base product and including in manual (but that is just my opinion).

Anyway - good luck. And I will keep an eye on this product waiting for this to become a little easier.

Regards
Nuro

[bcjenkins]

3 sources on the PVR500MCE? I guess they don't call it a 2 tuner card for nothing.. You ought to pick up another card.

B

[paulbeers]

I have to second that. Seems strange he could get it to work with other apps. Unless he was willing to only ever record 2 items at a time, but just wanted all 3 hooked up? I mean I did this for awhile using one of my old avermedia m150's to record via tuner, but when I wnated to record like an old VHS into digital, I would hook it up and tell Sage to time record. That worked, but I don't thing sage would allow it to change channels on my VCR etc.....Eh. Sage will not work for everyone I suppose! Good luck to you kind sir.

[ToxMox]

Nurowolf said 3 sources not record 3 things at once. I have 7 sources running on 6 encoders.

[nurowolf]

Yep - 3 sources - not 3 encoders
it means that 2 sources share an encoder / tuner. This does mean that if I record on one of these sources the other is no longer available

I do actually have a second card (a 150MCE) put haven't been able to find the time to put it in.

The above actually worked with SAGE as well. What I couldn't get working was external channel change on 2 STBs. I could get 1 to work but could get the external tuner thingie to work with more than 1 external tuner.

If this part ever gets easier (read "I can make it work with simple instructions") then I will jump back on the SAGE band wagon.

I will keep an eye on the forums to see if this happens. I know I have read of many user being able to get this to work - and I have followed these instructions - but no good.

[Alfiegerner]

Mate, don't lose hope. I am using the exemulituner with 2 stb's and it works fine. I know its a bit fiddly but if does work in the end. If you haven't seen them already, check out these threads:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...=exemultituner

http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...33&postcount=7

[mayamaniac]

I don't understand how you can dump 3 sources into 2 tuners, how is this possible with the PVR-500?

And you mentioned you have a PVR-150, why not install that in and be done with it rather waste time trying to force 3 sources into the PVR-500? I mean it takes probably 10 minutes to pop the case open and put the card in, I'm sure you can make time for that.

[src666]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I don't understand how you can dump 3 sources into 2 tuners, how is this possible with the PVR-500?

Any card with both a tuner and a Composite/SVideo input can be used with 2 sources. I have one of my 250's set up that way. It is connected to the cable via Coax, and also to a cable box via SVideo. I've tuned the lineups so that the SVideo input is only used for the channels that I need the cable box for. Everything else comes from the coax. Simple.

[ke6guj]

I can understand multiple sources, but 2 different coaxial sources into a PVR-500? How does that work?

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by src666

Any card with both a tuner and a Composite/SVideo input can be used with 2 sources. I have one of my 250's set up that way. It is connected to the cable via Coax, and also to a cable box via SVideo. I've tuned the lineups so that the SVideo input is only used for the channels that I need the cable box for. Everything else comes from the coax. Simple.

Right, I have the same setup, two sources into the PVR-500, which has two tuners. That made sense. Now my original question is how people are putting THREE sources into the PVR-500 dual tuner?

[ke6guj]

Lets see, the PVR-500 can record 1 source to each tuner with the Coax, and can use the Composite or Svideo on the backplane for one tuner, and use a second Composite or Svideo on the other tuner with the available a/v cable set. http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_inf...cardstv-tuners.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Lets see, the PVR-500 can record 1 source to each tuner with the Coax, and can use the Composite or Svideo on the backplane for one tuner, and use a second Composite or Svideo on the other tuner with the available a/v cable set. http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_inf...cardstv-tuners.

I guess I understand what you mean now, but it means that he expects SageTV to swap between S-Video and Coaxial inputs depending what show source he is recording. But it will still give him only two recording at once, not three. So not sure what the third source is for, he says its just OTA coaxial, so unless its a different lineup than the external box, I'm not sure whats the point in having that, maybe a webcam?

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I guess I understand what you mean now, but it means that he expects SageTV to swap between S-Video and Coaxial inputs depending what show source he is recording.

That works just fine, I am running "3" sources into the PVR-500 just like that. 2 of the sources would be straight cable hooked up to the Coax, split internally to both tuners and an STB hooked up to the composite inputs, configured to one tuner. That tuner jumps back and forth between the coax and composites depending on what it needs to record. 3 sources, only 2 recordable at a time.

I think the OP understands that only 2 sources can be recorded at the same time.

What I can't figure out how he gets both an OTA coaxial source and an STB coaxial source into the PVR-500 at the same time. I think that that Sage may be choking on this, trying to understand the config. That may be why he is having issues getting the second STB to be controlled through Sage.


What I think is funny is that there is no time to add in the pvr-150, but there is time to try and configure a wierd config, and there is time to dump Sage and install another PVR solution.

edit: found the OP's other thread about this: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15552 . That reminded me about his situation. I think that he would be best served by adding in the pvr-150 and having one source for each tuner, or else, getting the a/v cable and running the second STB using svideo like the first one. Then, he could do one STB to each tuner in the pvr-500 and even have the OTA coax feeding both tuners directly.

[nurowolf]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

Right, I have the same setup, two sources into the PVR-500, which has two tuners. That made sense. Now my original question is how people are putting THREE sources into the PVR-500 dual tuner?

STB 1 = Coaxial
Free to air = Coaxial
STB 2 = S-Video

STB and Free to air use the same coaxial cable (free-to-air runs through STB first like a video recorder). STB 1 is set to a fixed Channel and channel change happens by way of external changer.

Free to air - you set up the channels by way of EPG and not Fixed channel. Therefore 2 sources by way of single coaxial cable.

Third source is S-VIDEO through card 1.

Also - I haven't put the 150MCE card in because it is not just a 10 minute job. My HTPC is mounted and has a great deal of cabaling to cope with as it also acts as a hub for home automation. I will put this card in - but it does not fix my issue with the External Change change on different sources. This will remain the case regardless of which TV card i use.

[nurowolf]

Originally Posted by Alfiegerner

Mate, don't lose hope. I am using the exemulituner with 2 stb's and it works fine. I know its a bit fiddly but if does work in the end. If you haven't seen them already, check out these threads:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...=exemultituner

http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...33&postcount=7

Yep - saw the second one and tried working through it. Couldn't get it to work. The first post is new to me.

[nurowolf]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

That works just fine, I am running "3" sources into the PVR-500 just like that. 2 of the sources would be straight cable hooked up to the Coax, split internally to both tuners and an STB hooked up to the composite inputs, configured to one tuner. That tuner jumps back and forth between the coax and composites depending on what it needs to record. 3 sources, only 2 recordable at a time.

I think the OP understands that only 2 sources can be recorded at the same time.

What I can't figure out how he gets both an OTA coaxial source and an STB coaxial source into the PVR-500 at the same time. I think that that Sage may be choking on this, trying to understand the config. That may be why he is having issues getting the second STB to be controlled through Sage.


What I think is funny is that there is no time to add in the pvr-150, but there is time to try and configure a wierd config, and there is time to dump Sage and install another PVR solution.

edit: found the OP's other thread about this: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15552 . That reminded me about his situation. I think that he would be best served by adding in the pvr-150 and having one source for each tuner, or else, getting the a/v cable and running the second STB using svideo like the first one. Then, he could do one STB to each tuner in the pvr-500 and even have the OTA coax feeding both tuners directly.

The PVR150MCE was in my test machine - hance the reason for more time on the 'messy config'. I have taken it out and have decided to put it in my production machine to solve the 3 sources only 2 recordable issue as I have had several times where I wanted to recorded free-to-air (which suprised me) and cabe STB 2.

In my test rig and my production rig I could get external channel changing working for a single set-top box.

I could only test the second STB in the production rig - and could never get it to change channels (it always sent the channel change to the first STB).

I know that what ever is wrong is my doing (as plenty people have posted that they have a very similar set-up working fine).

But I have the other product working without any real issues and since we are talking about a production machine - and our only TV source then I can't take it off line.

For now I can't
a) shutdown the system to install the 2nd card as it is a major job (due to the cabling location ect)

b) afford to have the TV offline for an extended period

And yes it is my fault as I got the system working with 2 sources and then decided to add another cable box with a completely different line-up of channels - this is where my SageTV experience became nasty (config only).

I agree that Sage is way better than what I am using for interface and TV quality (after all Sage is a retail product - versus a free product - so you would expect this).

But for now I have to admit defeat. I think I will be back as Sage seems to be going gang busters on functionality and looks really like the only game in town for a PVR - so I will keep a presence here and monitor the progress.

Thanks again to all that tried to help. The support has been excellent.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

What I can't figure out how he gets both an OTA coaxial source and an STB coaxial source into the PVR-500 at the same time. I think that that Sage may be choking on this, trying to understand the config. That may be why he is having issues getting the second STB to be controlled through Sage.

I noticed that too, he listed two coaxial sources and one S-video, I thought it was a typo. But apparently not.

Originally Posted by nurowolf

Also - I haven't put the 150MCE card in because it is not just a 10 minute job. My HTPC is mounted and has a great deal of cabaling to cope with as it also acts as a hub for home automation. I will put this card in - but it does not fix my issue with the External Change change on different sources. This will remain the case regardless of which TV card i use.

So how are you putting two coaxial sources into the PVR-500? And if you install the PVR-150, you will have three sources and three tuners, thats how it should be, what is the problem with controlling your two external boxes?

[nielm]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

So how are you putting two coaxial sources into the PVR-500?

From my understanding, its not 2 co-ax sources, it's 2 sources on 1 co-ax: The STB1 adds a UHF channel for itself

          +------+                  +---------+
antenna - | STB1 | - antenna+stb1 - |         |
          +------+                  |         |
                                    | PVR-500 |
          +------+                  |         |
antenna - | STB2 | -   svidio     - |         |
          +------+                  +---------+

You can set up these 3 sources in sage:
Svideo (for STB2)
TV Tuner (Antenna/Broadcast) for FTA
TV Tuner (external receiver) for STB1

I don't have a PVR-500 , so don't know how the tuners are represented in sage, but you may even be able to do:

Capture #1 Svideo for STB2
Capture #1 TV Tuner -- Antenna/Broadcast -- for FTA
Capture #2 TV Tuner -- Antenna/Broadcast -- for FTA
Capture #2 TV Tuner -- external receiver/fixed channel -- for STB1

What you are probably unlikely to be able to do is to configure STB1 on both capture #1 and capture #2 -- Sage may consider it as 2 separate devices and get confused!


The difficulty (and from what I understand, I think it's nurowolf's problem) is setting up the external tuning mechanism so that sage can send tuning commands to different STBs.

Nurowolf: I also don't know how you are getting EPG data, but if with XMLTV, you should make sure that you are using an XMLTV plugin that supports multiple lineups...

[nurowolf]

Nielm is correct with my setup. It is 1 Co-axial cable. The STB uses a fixed channel number to display cable.

Tuner 1 is et to only tune to this channel. Tuner 2 is set to receive the remaining channels.


For XMLTV I am using the XMLTV Plugin and it works fine (took me a while to get it to work though). I have no duplicate channels across the sources - so this worked well.

SAGE has no problem with my set-up on the Tuner side or the XMLTV side. I just cant get the External Tuner plugin to work with more than 1 STB.

If I use the original External Tuner plugin that only allows 1 external tuner, then that works fine with 1 STB. When I try and get the newer multi-tuner plugin to work I get nothing .. zip... zero. No channel changing what so ever.

SAGE correctly selects the source and switches to that input - but on the STB - the channel change is not being sent out so the channel remains the same.

So again Nielm is correct.

It would be nice if this external channel changer was not a plugin but was part of the base product - that may make the whole process a bit easier.

Anyway - thanks for the comments to all.

[mayamaniac]

Wow, what a confusing and complicated setup, but I think I get it now. Are the two STBs the same models? And you said you are using FTA, doesn't that also require a STB, so don't you have 3 STBs?

Have you send email to SageTV tech support about this problem, if yes, what did they say?

And lastly, just curious, what are the inferior PVR softwares that you tried and said it worked with your setup?