Poll Suggestion

[journeyman101]

I have a new poll suggestion.

Would you be really pis__ed if Sage TV (i.e. Frey Technologies) caused people that use Open Source DVR software to lose their free Zap2it listings? In fact, even those of you that paid for Sage TV would lose out. I (and everyone on the MythTV mailing list) got an email from Zap2it saying someone was abusing the free listings and basically threatened to discontinue this nice free service. Sage was NOT specifically named in the email, but the general concensus on the mailing list is, they are the ones Zap2it is referring to. More power to free enterprise and making money, but lets face it guys, lets not ruin a good thing. If I am wrong about all this, then by all means correct me.

[mlbdude]

Can you post the email? I got one too. It did not mention SageTV. Maybe you got a different one? However, I think every Windows PVR has plugins that allow its users to write applications to insert EPG data from wherever they want. Would this be a violation?

We at Tribune Media Services and Zap2it.com have been privileged to
offer a TV listings service to the open source and freeware
communities so that the many innovations in electronic program guides,
digital video recorders, and recommendation engines could continue to
flourish. This free-of-charge service is at risk, however, due to the
actions of several businesses seeking to exploit our generosity so
that they can make greater profits.

When you signed up for Zap2it Labs, you agreed to a contract that
states the service is available for non-commercial, personal use only.
A few commercial entities have chosen to ignore these contractual
terms in order to receive television listings without paying. We know
who these entities are; you know who they are.

These violations must end.

If you purchased a hardware or software product that receives its
television listings from Zap2it Labs' DataDirect or, indirectly,
through XMLTV, you may be violating our contract. It is critical that
you and your vendor abide by our contractual terms, lest everyone
suffer the consequences.

If you have any questions about this issue, or suggestions for how to
ameliorate the situation, please feel free to contact us at
mailto:labs@zap2it.com

Sincerely,

Jay R. Brodsky
VP/Technology
Tribune Media Services

[ToxMox]

As far as I know Frey Technologies pays for their listings from Tribune/Zap2it so I doubt the email is referring to Sage.
See this: http://www.sage.tv/partners.html?navA=partners

[Watter]

If I recall correctly, when Frey discontinued charging for its listings service, they specifically mentioned that part of the purchase price of SageTV was going towards paying for the listings from Zap2It so I seriously doubt that Frey is the target for such an email.

-Watter

[mlbdude]

Sage was specifically named in the email, but the general concensus on the mailing list is, they are the ones Zap2it is referring to.

Maybe you mean Sage was NOT specifically named in the email?

No one knows for sure who they are talking about. Frey for sure pays for their listings. Were there any new PVR applications coming out on the day that this email went out that had a launch date postponed?

[Opus4]

I just remembered there was another thread on this: Zap2It Warning Email. There doesn't seem to be any detail as to what they are referring to. For US listings, Frey pays for the EPG listings. For everywhere else, SageTV can make use of plugins, but I don't believe they actually provide the plugin themselves.

Edit: Do they mean that some companies were using the free data, or that the users were not supposed to use the free data in PVR software?

- Andy

[ToxMox]

Why doesn't Zap2It just cut the cloak & dagger crap and mention who they are talking about instead of letting unsubstanciated rumors float around?

[nielm]

From what I understand from the XMLTV dicussions when DD was incorporated, no matter whether the PVR is free or commercial, provided that the end user registers with Zap2it and gets their own username/password, they can use the data.

I suspect that someone somewhere is re-publising and selling the data that they get from datadirect to end users, or giving multiple end users a single login/password to access the data (there were 2 accounts listed on bugmenot.com)...

Frey has had a licence to republish zap2it data since long before the datadirect service existed, so I don't think it is Sage that is at fault.

(This is being discussed on zap2its forums, and on avsforums, and noone knows who the abusers might be!)

[edit: apologies for the redundant info: I type too slow!]

[edit2: some guy on the mythtv mailing list is blaming sageTV

[Opus4]

Has anyone emailed the contact listed in the email? No replies with clarifications?

"You must stop doing something, or else. We can't tell you what that <something> is, but you must stop doing it. Thank you for your support."

- Andy

[nielm]

I guess the letter was only published on Friday, the mailbox filled up with WTF? emails from various sources, and it may take a while to resolve...

[JasonJoel]

Edit:

Deleted my post. The official response frpom Frey says everything I said (but nicer).

JAson

[dkardatzke]

We license data directly from Tribune Media Services to provide in SageTV to all our United States users. We have a contract with Tribune to provide this data. For any customer outside of the US, we do not provide data but there are alternatives that were developed by the user community to import data back into SageTV. This data is not under our control nor do we guarantee the source or validity of the data.

Our understanding with the Zap2it letter is that the Data Direct service was started to accomodate all the requests for data of the freeware/shareware applications like MythTV that existed in the community. This started to help stop all the illegal ripping of data off sites like zap2it.com and other listing sources. The intent of this service was for the data to be used only with the freeware/shareware applications.

However, some companies have since taken advantage of this free guide information and released products for sale that rely on the Data Direct/XMLTV service. This was probably not the intent of Tribune's service so they have since decided to pull the plug. We have not been involved with any decisions that Tribune has made to cancel this service and this in no way impacts our data service for the United States. I don't really have much more information on this since it doesn't affect our U.S. service so I'm afraid this is all the input I can provide.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by journeyman101

I have a new poll suggestion.

Would you be really pis__ed if Sage TV (i.e. Frey Technologies) caused people that use Open Source DVR software to lose their free Zap2it listings?

You realize that there are people out there SELLING pre-configured MythTV boxes....

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You realize that there are people out there SELLING pre-configured MythTV boxes....

Do you know whether those systems are including access to the Zap2It EPG data download as part of the package? If so, wouldn't that be a bit ironic, considering the "consensus" in the original post.

- Andy

[stanger89]

I have no idea, that's why I left my post where it was. But that's also why I posted it.

Consider this though, Frey, Snapstream, and MS make up the entire retail PC PVR market now (I don't think Meedio TV is out yet). I don't see any of those companies using DD for their data. What's left?