Tuner merit problem

[jughead]

Hi, I'm having a weird issue with my tuner merit that I just came across today, I hope you can help.

Sage is selecting the SD tuner instead of the HD OTA one when I tune to a channel manually (or start a manual recording) from within the guide. (which I rarely do). I haven't noticed this ever happening with my favorites.

I haven't changed anything in at least a year and noticed this issue for the first time today. I'm using Sage Client on a HTPC and have the encoder merit set on the server.

I had already remapped the channels long ago but maybe it's done incorrectly?? I included screenshots. CBS 3 is the one I had the issue with.

I was able to "trick" Sage into showing me the HD tuner for CBS by occupying the single SD tuner recording on a channel only it gets. Then I click on CBS and get the HD feed, no problem.

Any idea what's going on? I know that these issues are usually due to mapping issues more-so than merit, but I thought my mapping was done correctly.

Thanks in advance if you can help!

[Tiki]

If you "tricked" Sage by remapping the SD and HD versions of the channel to both have the same channel number (and presumably the same channel ID), Sage will assume the two are exactly the same. It's really not meant to work like that.

If you are going to re-map, I would map them so the preferred HD channels show up first in the guide (so they are easy to find when channel surfing). Map the less preferred SD channels to the end (maybe add 500 or 1000 to the channel number, so the SD version of channel 3 is channel 1003). But what's important is that the SD and HD channels have the correct channel IDs so Sage can tell them apart and both show up as separate channels in the guide.

[KeithAbbott]

I disable the SD version of the channels when an HD version is available. The SD version just clutters up the guide, and who wants to watch SD when HD is available?

[jughead]

Originally Posted by Tiki

If you "tricked" Sage by remapping the SD and HD versions of the channel to both have the same channel number (and presumably the same channel ID), Sage will assume the two are exactly the same. It's really not meant to work like that.

I did map them to the same channel/ID but based on this post by Narflex, I thought it WAS supposed to work like that. The tuner merit, set in the properties file should only kick in if more than one tuner IS set to be the same channel, unless I'm misunderstanding that post?

If you are going to re-map, I would map them so the preferred HD channels show up first in the guide (so they are easy to find when channel surfing). Map the less preferred SD channels to the end (maybe add 500 or 1000 to the channel number, so the SD version of channel 3 is channel 1003). But what's important is that the SD and HD channels have the correct channel IDs so Sage can tell them apart and both show up as separate channels in the guide.

I used to have it like that but don't like my guide cluttered up with duplicate channels. Adding a higher number to move the SD channels to the end of the guide is a good tip though. If I have to resort to duplicating them, this would make it a bit more tolerable I suppose. I think my favorites may also record on the SD channels if I do it this way unless I specify the HD channel when setting them up, no?

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

I disable the SD version of the channels when an HD version is available. The SD version just clutters up the guide, and who wants to watch SD when HD is available?

I have only 3 tuners so if the two HD ones are already recording, I would rather have the third recorded in SD rather than just skipped. I did think about doing this though. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Tiki]

Sage doesn't have a concept of HD vs SD channels. If two channels have the same channel I'd, Sage thinks they are the same. If the channel ids are different, Sage thinks they are different.

However, Sage does look at the EPG data and if the same show is being aired on multiple channels or at multiple times, it will prefer the airings that are marked HD. This relies on the EPG data being accurate and complete. Unfortunately, it often is not accurate when it comes to marking individual airings as HD or not.

[wnjj]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Sage doesn't have a concept of HD vs SD channels. If two channels have the same channel I'd, Sage thinks they are the same. If the channel ids are different, Sage thinks they are different.

Maybe a good feature request?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wnjj

Maybe a good feature request?

considering most SD channels at this point are disappearing, I doubt it's worth it.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by jughead

Hi, I'm having a weird issue with my tuner merit that I just came across today, I hope you can help.

Sage is selecting the SD tuner instead of the HD OTA one when I tune to a channel manually (or start a manual recording) from within the guide. (which I rarely do). I haven't noticed this ever happening with my favorites.

I haven't changed anything in at least a year and noticed this issue for the first time today. I'm using Sage Client on a HTPC and have the encoder merit set on the server.

I had already remapped the channels long ago but maybe it's done incorrectly?? I included screenshots. CBS 3 is the one I had the issue with.

I was able to "trick" Sage into showing me the HD tuner for CBS by occupying the single SD tuner recording on a channel only it gets. Then I click on CBS and get the HD feed, no problem.

Any idea what's going on? I know that these issues are usually due to mapping issues more-so than merit, but I thought my mapping was done correctly.

Thanks in advance if you can help!

how is your merit set on your tuners?

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

considering most SD channels at this point are disappearing, I doubt it's worth it.

Maybe code should be built in to distinguish between HD and 4k channels. A bit of future proofing for when that starts happening.

[amg]

It is not usually the channels that are indicated as being SD or HD, but the airings. I dont think there is data available to indicate on a per channel basis.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

Maybe code should be built in to distinguish between HD and 4k channels. A bit of future proofing for when that starts happening.

I doubt you'll see many decent 4k capture mechanisms in rampant use.

[wnjj]

Originally Posted by amg

It is not usually the channels that are indicated as being SD or HD, but the airings. I dont think there is data available to indicate on a per channel basis.

That could come from the user. I.E. mark a channel as SD/lower priority.

[Tiki]

Actually, Sage currently lets you specify specific channels to record from. I would like to see an option to just PREFER certain channels (but still be able to fall back to non-preferred channels if that was the only option to record a particular show).

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Actually, Sage currently lets you specify specific channels to record from. I would like to see an option to just PREFER certain channels (but still be able to fall back to non-preferred channels if that was the only option to record a particular show).

Do you have an actual example of a situation that might warrant that?

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Do you have an actual example of a situation that might warrant that?

I can think of a couple.
1. I used to live in Michigan where Comcast gave me CBS from Detroit and another CBS from Lansing. The Detroit CBS had HD and SD versions, but Lansing was SD only. I removed the SD Detroit station from my guide, but kept the SD Lansing station, because it occasionally showed things that were not shown on the Detroit station (for example they sometimes showed different football games). Now, if I setup a favorite for a show, Sage would be smart enough to record it from the Detroit station as long as the EPG data correctly marked the airing as HD. But if not, it always preferred the SD station from Lansing. I don't know if this is because Sage sorted by call letters, or station ID, or channel number, but All else being equal, Sage seemed to always prefer one station (and it was not the one I would prefer).

I could get around this by setting the favorite to only record from the Detroit channel, but this would sometimes cause problems later. For example, if there was a future airing that was only on the SD Channel. Or, if the show got moved to another network (maybe CBS canceled it, but TNT picked it up). Or if I move to a different city. Then I have to go back through all my favorites and fix any that were set to CBS Detroit only.

2. Another case is when networks debut a new show, I have noticed a recent trend where they sometimes show it on every station they own. A new NBC show might be rebroadcast on Syfy, CNBC, MSNBC, MTV,... I've seen this happen and Sage decides to record it from some obscure channel that is broadcast at a lower bandwidth and has stock tickers or one thing scrolling across the screen. So this is another case where I would like to specify that I prefer the main NBC airing. But don't want to lock it down to only that one channel for the reasons above.

3. Building on example 2., I've also experienced where a new show debuted on NBC on Monday, but the guide indicated it would be repeated on another channel (maybe Syfy) on Saturday. So, Sage scheduled the Saturday airing, but then later in the week the guide data changed and the show was not aired that Saturday after all, so the recording got missed.