TWC shutting off my signal... now what?

[sclamage]

After many years of hobbling along with TWC's increasingly crappy and mostly analog service, I finally got the letter I've been dreading - they are killing off all of my analog and QAM channels at the end of this month. They will send me some free tuning adapters, but that's not much of a help for our SageTV setup.

If I want to stick with Sage, it seems like the nicest solution would be to go the CableCard route. But from what I've read here and in other forums, TWC sets the copy-once flag on EVERY channel, which - if I understand correctly - means that SageTV won't be able to record anything at all.

Can someone confirm that that is the case? I'd be especially interested to hear from someone in the Raleigh/Durham area, since that's where I am. I really don't want to sink a bunch of time and money into a new tuner and then find out that it only works with WMC (which I have no desire to migrate to).

I guess one option would be to feed their tuning adapter into something like a Colossus or HD PVR, but that feels pretty clunky and expensive to me. Is anyone successfully using that kind of a setup?

And if this doesn't work out ... I guess I may have some extenders for sale in a few months

[FriscoJohn]

Before I got my HDHRPrime and went to cable card, I used an HD-PVR with excellent results. I used a USB-IRT for channel changing. I don't think I ever missed a show over 4 years of use. Of course the HD-PVR isn't HDMI quality (although it's pretty good).

If my cable provider ever put most of the interesting channels on no copy status, making the HDHRPrime useless, I would get a Colossus which (with a special splitter--search the forum--) can do HDMI.

[Fuzzy]

I have Charter, which is better about Copy Flags than TWC, but still a lot of the channels are flagged. I have an HDHR Prime with a cablecard to get the channels that aren't flagged, and then a single Colossus connected to a HD STB via component, controlled by an USB-UIRT. The colossus/USB-UIRT works flawlessly, and it's never missed anything.

[reggie14]

My HD-PVR + USB-UIRT combination has been pretty solid. The problem that I have is that every couple of months Verizon (apparently) pushes a firmware update that resets the box. I have to power cycle it by hand to get it to pay attention to IR commands. I usually don't notice this until I miss a recording.

It wasn't always so solid. I don't have numbers to back it up, but not recording digital audio output seemed to help.

I'm lucky, though. Most things are available from FiOS through my HDHR Prime. But if they started encrypting everything I'd get another STB and pull my other HD-PVR out of storage.

[KryptoNyte]

Even after Time Warner claimed to do the digital upgrade in my area, they continued broadcasting the local channels with a copy-freely flag, which means that I can grab them with a cablecard and SageDCT. The remainder of the channels with a set-top-box and an HD-PVR.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Even after Time Warner claimed to do the digital upgrade in my area, they continued broadcasting the local channels with a copy-freely flag, which means that I can grab them with a cablecard and SageDCT. The remainder of the channels with a set-top-box and an HD-PVR.

Do you need to use a CableCard, or are these channels sent out in clearQAM? I know there's been some movement towards encrypting local channels in recent years, but I thought even Time Warner wasn't bothering to encrypt locals.

[KryptoNyte]

I honestly don't know any more, Reggie. I just now filled the cablecard tuners with TV shows, and tried to tune a few of my local stations (forcing my old HDHR clear QAM's to tune) and they couldn't tune anything.

This could be due to no more clear QAM, or that Time Warner remapped the channels. Either point is worth noting - I don't have these problems with the cablecard, and it's only a few bucks a month. Remapping channels every time Time Warner got a bug up it's rear to move things around was almost always an unpleasant surprise to my usual recording schedule.

[Fuzzy]

I think the goal of all cable co's is going to be to encrypt everything, this allows them to control subscription status without having to roll a truck to disconnect/filter a residence when service is stopped, and roll one again when service is started. Still, as long as they are copy freely, a cablecard can do the decryption and you still get them without drm.

[sclamage]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Sounds like my options are pretty much what I expected:
1. HDHR Prime - if TWC will allow copy-freely. Unfortunately it's still unclear to me whether that + SageTV will actually be able to tune anything.
2. Colossus + TWC tuning adapter + USB-IRT or the like + HDCP stripper - should work, but fiddly, requires more physical space, and I lose a tuner compared to what I have now (HVR-2255)
3. HD-PVR + TWC tuning adapter + USB-IRT + HDCP stripper - same as #2... but with an even BIGGER footprint.

If the HDHR were guaranteed to work for me, I'd buy one right now. The others sound like a much bigger investment in terms of time and money, frankly. I suppose the quality would be a step up from what I have right now (mostly fuzzy analog channels, getting worse every day), but I still have trouble mustering the enthusiasm to go down that road.

The other piece of the puzzle here is that Google Fiber is coming into our market later this year. As happy as I've been with SageTV, I'd give it all up tomorrow for Google's service. But they're mum about when it will actually be rolled out, and there's no guarantee that it will even come to my neighborhood.

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to minimize my time & effort investment in this project given that I may shutter the whole system later this year. Am I overthinking things?

Any chance there's someone out there who can give me a definitive answer on TWC + cablecard + copy-freely in Raleigh/Durham?

[KryptoNyte]

The TWC options, as I experience them (or similar):

- HDHR Prime + Cablecard + tuning adapter = 3 tuners for local affiliate stations only.
- HD-PVR1212 (the original HD-PVR) + set-top-box (via component HD Video) + USB-UIRT = all the rest of the channels. No stripper needed. See Ebay for HD-PVR, used probably.

You could add another HD-PVR with set-top-box (STB), the USB-UIRT can control up to three STB's with adapter.

On an honest note, if you're looking to minimize time and effort, SageTV may not be for you. No one has ever reported TWC to offer copy-freely via cablecard as far as I know.

[sclamage]

Thanks again for the reply. I'm encouraged to hear these are reliable solutions, so maybe I will give it a go. Worst case I'm sure I can sell the hardware here or on eBay if things don't work out.

BTW, I'm no stranger to putting effort into getting SageTV to work, believe me... I've been keeping the same wiz.bin going since 2004 or so, through multiple server rebuilds. It's not so much that I MIND spending time getting this all to work; I'm just frustrated that it hasn't gotten any easier after 10+ years.

[KryptoNyte]

You could replace the HD-PVR suggestion with a Colossus or other video capture device, but of course you still need one STB per tuner unfortunately (and the stripper if using HDMI). I wouldn't say the STB capture is a real great solution as the general operation just isn't quite as smooth as a cablecard tuner, but that's what we get with the world's worst cable TV provider.

[sclamage]

Hey, I just want to thank y'all again for your advice and encouragement.

I ended up going with the TWC DTA + a Colossus 2 + some other bits and pieces to glue it all together. This afternoon I finally got it all put together... It still needs a bit more tweaking and testing, but so far it seems to be working. There was definitely some pain involved (not worth getting into unless someone needs the gory details), but I guess it could have been a lot worse. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it remains stable!

Thanks again!

[Clift]

Just started getting those messages too. So they are definitely encrypting the locals? I've never used the HD PVR for those and have always relied on ClearQAM. It would suck a lot if they started encrypting the ClearQAM channels.

[KryptoNyte]

If you're only recording the local channels, as you would be with your current solution, you could use a cablecard (a few bucks a month) and continue recording the local stations. You also do not have to worry about the clearqam mapping (and re-mapping occasionally) with the cablecard.

[JustFred]

sclamage: I'm on the verge of a TWC/Sage installation at my daughter's house, so I'd like to hear about the gory details you went thru. I've got first-hand experience with Comcast & their encryption at my house (I'm using SageDCT). But it's not really clear to me how TWC's use of the copy flags and the TA (for switched digital video) plays.

[sclamage]

Originally Posted by Clift

Just started getting those messages too. So they are definitely encrypting the locals? I've never used the HD PVR for those and have always relied on ClearQAM. It would suck a lot if they started encrypting the ClearQAM channels.

To be honest I haven't tried this. Their flyers and scary warnings said that everything was getting cut off without their stupid box, and I assumed that also included the ClearQAM channels. We watch a lot more shows than ever came in via ClearQAM so I just ripped out my old capture card, switched over to the Colossus and never looked back. Maybe I should try plugging the coax back into my TV just to see if they were lying...

Actually didn't we pass the cutoff date a couple weeks ago? I'm surprised you're still getting anything. Are you?

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

If you're only recording the local channels, as you would be with your current solution, you could use a cablecard (a few bucks a month) and continue recording the local stations. You also do not have to worry about the clearqam mapping (and re-mapping occasionally) with the cablecard.

Based on what people said in this thread, I don't think cablecard + sage will work at all with TWC for any channels due to the copy flags being set for everything. I didn't want to invest in the hardware to verify that myself. If someone finds that that combo works with TWC Raleigh I'd sure like to know...

[KryptoNyte]

I don't know about TWC Raleigh, although I would imagine they are the same as anywhere else, but I'm already doing it in Milwaukee - getting the local affiliates via the cable card, basically, all the same channels you would have been getting via your clearqam solution previously. Of course this is a relatively small quantity of typically available cable stations. All channels are encrypted, but the locals have a copy freely setting instead of copy once like everything else.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

... No one has ever reported TWC to offer copy-freely via cablecard as far as I know.

That statement added confusion, so revised it would read;

No one has ever reported TWC to offer copy-freely via cablecard on anything except the local affiliates, as far as I know.

[sclamage]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

That statement added confusion, so revised it would read;

No one has ever reported TWC to offer copy-freely via cablecard on anything except the local affiliates, as far as I know.

Thanks for the clarification... Definitely not worth getting a cablecard just for the locals. Fortunately I already had an old HDHR sitting around. That plus a $35 antenna from Amazon is getting me all the local channels for free, and partially making up for the fact that I would otherwise only have a single tuner now.