Starting out with Sky encrypted channels

[bartley9]

I have had a very stable config with two sky boxes connected to a hauppauge PVR500 and a single hauppauge Nove-HD-S2. The USBUIRT fails to tune a channel about once every two months and sky box errors or tripped circuit breakers cause another outage about every two months. Apart from that it is rock solid 24*7.

Due to laziness on my part the S2 has limited channels working as I have not retuned it since they moved and now one of the sky boxes has failed leaving me with a single sky box and a handful of freesat channels.

I want to make the move into a full sky compatible configuration and it must be at least as stable as current or better. I am going to purchase the TBS6985 but I am at a loss as to what other hardware I need.

I can see that some cards have a CAM slot to insert a CAM and card into but the TBS6985 has no slot. Do I need a USB reader like the omnikey3121? Do others have experience of using this device or are others better?

Next I appear to need OSCAM and ACAMD and MDAPI.

Graphs are totally new to me I have read some threads which mentioned them but I have just used the cards natively and not bothered with them.

Do I need to use a network encoder such as DVB4Sage or DVBLink?

I've been running Sage since version 3 but feel like a fish out of water with all the encryption stuff.

Any and all help or advice will be much appreciated.

[starfire]

I'd have a read of the whole of this thread first, hopefully Eddy can come up with a good solution.

[bartley9]

Starfire, thanks for responding. I did read them and thought, at first, that they were the holy grail but they were for Media center so I was a bit sceptical as to how applicable they would be for SageTv.

[starfire]

No that thread is for Sage, not Windows Media Center.

Within it are several solutions using HW CAM, DVBLink or what Eddy is working on.

[bartley9]

Originally Posted by starfire

No that thread is for Sage, not Windows Media Center.

Within it are several solutions using HW CAM, DVBLink or what Eddy is working on.

Starfire, sorry to appear unappreciative but the first link says

"My Setup

Windows 8 Pro with Media Center installed "

and the second

"Sorry should have made that clearer, I'm using wmc. With dvblink 4.5.2 "

I have searched both posts for "sage" and found nothing.

Why do you think they refer to SageTv?

[starfire]

Yes, that's why I said to read the whole of the thread, its a discussion and you can see what other people run further down in the posts.

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by bartley9

Due to laziness on my part the S2 has limited channels working as I have not retuned it since they moved and now one of the sky boxes has failed leaving me with a single sky box and a handful of freesat channels.

Use the "DVB-S Importer" plugin to update the NOVA-DVB-S2 lineup by copying the same channels allocation from the tuner that works. The plugin also support the specific Windows registry setting you have to update for the NOVA.

I want to make the move into a full sky compatible configuration and it must be at least as stable as current or better. I am going to purchase the TBS6985 but I am at a loss as to what other hardware I need.

This card hasn't been reported to be fully working with SageTV yet, at least in native mode, another user has bought it, but apparently he's having trouble with it, so my opinion is to stick with the TBS6984 which works perfectly. The TBS6985 has a new PCIe controller and four separate chips one for each tuner, whereas the TBS6984 has four independent tuners, but organised into two chips, however same functionality, just different design.

I can see that some cards have a CAM slot to insert a CAM and card into but the TBS6985 has no slot. Do I need a USB reader like the omnikey3121? Do others have experience of using this device or are others better?

If you go the CAM route, then your options are the Anysee tuner cards, which are natively supported by SageTV and works very well, however they are single tuner only and therefore you need to purchase as many CAM and subscription cards for as many tuner you need, however a nice (but expensive) solution is to buy WiFi CAM that can share one subscription card.

Next I appear to need OSCAM and ACAMD and MDAPI.

OSCAM is the card server that you need to have regardless what you decide to do as it reads your subscription card via a separate card reader (Infinity USB a good one).

ACAMD is a card client which talks to OSCAM to get the keys to decrypt the transport stream.

MDAPI is the DirectShow filter that de-scramble the data by talking to ACAMD.

Saying that the ACAMD + MDAPI combo doesn't work natively with SageTV running in service mode and even in not service mode it will not natively work with SageTV 7.

Your current options are a network encoder like DVB4Sage or DVBLink, but some users doesn't like the idea, others doesn't mind. With DVB4Sage you've got the "pause", whilst DVBLink is more integrated with SageTV and doesn't do the "pause", but it looks like a PITA to configure.

Finally, I've been working on a different approach recently and making good progress, you can follow me HERE if you wish too

Eddy

[deanm]

Originally Posted by routerunner

Your current options are a network encoder like DVB4Sage or DVBLink, but some users doesn't like the idea, others doesn't mind. With DVB4Sage you've got the "pause", whilst DVBLink is more integrated with SageTV and doesn't do the "pause", but it looks like a PITA to configure.

Yes DVBLink is a PITA to configure but it does work well.

I have been working on an easy way to pull the data from DigiGuide and DVBS Importer to configure DVBLogic and it works very well. I will be creating a separate post soon with more details. I'm just waiting to see how it handles the changes for BBC HD to BBC Two HD. It already updated the changes to the Comedy Central channels over the last few days.

But I would still rather not use DVBLogic as its still another link to chain to break

Dean

[bartley9]

Originally Posted by starfire

Yes, that's why I said to read the whole of the thread, its a discussion and you can see what other people run further down in the posts.

Finally all becomes clear. I got distracted by the posts about the new development which Eddy was doing. It looks interesting but I think it is still in BETA so I don't want to take it yet.

I see that you have an omnikey 3121. Is it all working fine? What capture card do you have?

Originally Posted by routerunner

Use the "DVB-S Importer" plugin to update the NOVA-DVB-S2 lineup by copying the same channels allocation from the tuner that works. The plugin also support the specific Windows registry setting you have to update for the NOVA.



This card hasn't been reported to be fully working with SageTV yet, at least in native mode, another user has bought it, but apparently he's having trouble with it, so my opinion is to stick with the TBS6984 which works perfectly. The TBS6985 has a new PCIe controller and four separate chips one for each tuner, whereas the TBS6984 has four independent tuners, but organised into two chips, however same functionality, just different design.

The TBS6984 is discontinued so the TBS6985 seems to be the only option.

If you go the CAM route, then your options are the Anysee tuner cards, which are natively supported by SageTV and works very well, however they are single tuner only and therefore you need to purchase as many CAM and subscription cards for as many tuner you need, however a nice (but expensive) solution is to buy WiFi CAM that can share one subscription card.



OSCAM is the card server that you need to have regardless what you decide to do as it reads your subscription card via a separate card reader (Infinity USB a good one).

ACAMD is a card client which talks to OSCAM to get the keys to decrypt the transport stream.

MDAPI is the DirectShow filter that de-scramble the data by talking to ACAMD.

Does this mean that my CPU is doing the decode? If I use a CAM module will the decrypt be offloaded to the CAM?

Saying that the ACAMD + MDAPI combo doesn't work natively with SageTV running in service mode and even in not service mode it will not natively work with SageTV 7.

I wonder if this is permision related? (I have done some service development under windows)

Your current options are a network encoder like DVB4Sage or DVBLink, but some users doesn't like the idea, others doesn't mind. With DVB4Sage you've got the "pause", whilst DVBLink is more integrated with SageTV and doesn't do the "pause", but it looks like a PITA to configure.

I don't fancy the pause and I don't mind the config so long as it is a once only occurrence and it is stable.

Finally, I've been working on a different approach recently and making good progress, you can follow me HERE if you wish too

Definitely interested in the above but will wait until it is fully operational.

Eddy

How is the USB infinity? Any issues or concerns?

Thanks,
Bartley.

[bartley9]

Originally Posted by deanm

Yes DVBLink is a PITA to configure but it does work well.

I have been working on an easy way to pull the data from DigiGuide and DVBS Importer to configure DVBLogic and it works very well. I will be creating a separate post soon with more details. I'm just waiting to see how it handles the changes for BBC HD to BBC Two HD. It already updated the changes to the Comedy Central channels over the last few days.

But I would still rather not use DVBLogic as its still another link to chain to break

Dean

I'm detecting a strange undercurrent here. I have read a few oblique references which seem to suggest that network encoders have program guides in them. Can anyone confirm this? I can't imagine why - can anyone enlighten me?

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by bartley9

It looks interesting but I think it is still in BETA so I don't want to take it yet.

I think is not even alpha, but is coming out well and I really enjoy doing it and learning a lot.

The TBS6984 is discontinued so the TBS6985 seems to be the only option.

You can still surce it, but be aware that if you go native the new TBS6985 might not work.

Does this mean that my CPU is doing the decode? If I use a CAM module will the decrypt be offloaded to the CAM?

Correct, the CAM is doing the decoding, otherwise all other solutions will decode via CPU

I wonder if this is permision related? (I have done some service development under windows)

No, it isn't I'm afraid.

I don't fancy the pause and I don't mind the config so long as it is a once only occurrence and it is stable.

So DVBLogic (older version) is your only choice and it will limit the total number of tuners to four.

Definitely interested in the above but will wait until it is fully operational.

I'm not rushing the plugin at all as I want it to work properly and reliably and therefore I don't have an ETA.

How is the USB infinity? Any issues or concerns?

None I can think of...

Eddy

[bartley9]

I am a bit nervous about relying on my cpu for ALL the decrypting. Does anyone know if I go for the tbs6982(the card with a CAM slot) if I can still access the card to use with my non-cam nova-hd-s2 as if it were in a card reader?

Does anyone know how much cpu it takes to do the decryption?

[bartley9]

Can anyone post their cpu type and the number of software based decrypters they have please?

If I make use of Stephane's network encoder, which can record multiple channels at once, will I incur the decryption overhead for all e.g. 10 channels or is thr encryption at the stream level?

[pukka]

Hi All,

It is me with the TBS6985, all 4 tuners appear in sage but I was unable to get them to scan. but I can get them to scan the first 4 lines in the frq file
"Astra (28.2)"
frq:10773000 rate:22000 fec_rate_in:6 pol:1
frq:10788000 rate:22000 fec_rate_in:6 pol:2
frq:11222000 rate:27500 fec_rate_in:2 pol:1
frq:11224000 rate:27500 fec_rate_in:2 pol:2
{AUTO}

I think the auto part has it confused.

They work just fine with dvbe4sage.

But I have had a problem with some picture breakup, TBS have been great and we have sent quite a few emails back and forth

They have been logged into my pc and I need to report the outcome later this week to them.

Thanks

Paul

[Bagal]

Originally Posted by bartley9

Can anyone post their cpu type and the number of software based decrypters they have please?

If I make use of Stephane's network encoder, which can record multiple channels at once, will I incur the decryption overhead for all e.g. 10 channels or is thr encryption at the stream level?

I've got a core i5 using DVBLink with a Blackgold BGT3595, so I can record 2 Sky channels and 2 Freeview channels at the same time, my CPU usage when recording is minimal, I don't keep a great eye on it but it's definitely less than 10%.

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by pukka

Hi All,

It is me with the TBS6985, all 4 tuners appear in sage but I was unable to get them to scan. but I can get them to scan the first 4 lines in the frq file
"Astra (28.2)"
frq:10773000 rate:22000 fec_rate_in:6 pol:1
frq:10788000 rate:22000 fec_rate_in:6 pol:2
frq:11222000 rate:27500 fec_rate_in:2 pol:1
frq:11224000 rate:27500 fec_rate_in:2 pol:2
{AUTO}

I think the auto part has it confused.

They work just fine with dvbe4sage.

But I have had a problem with some picture breakup, TBS have been great and we have sent quite a few emails back and forth

They have been logged into my pc and I need to report the outcome later this week to them.

Thanks

Paul

In the end, did it start to scan with the predefined FRQ file I sent to you?

Also, whilst you're contacting TBS for your card could you please let them know that their default sample size of 32900 bytes in their BDA drivers is way too small, it should be at least 50% bigger and that is the cause of your picture breakups with SageTV, also please tell them to double check their transport stream sync logic as another cause of picture breakups is the sync not working properly. A good way to see whether you have sync issues is to use my "DVB Decrypter and Card Client" plugin, even if doesn't scramble yet, it will tell you whether you have sync issues in the plugin's log.

Eddy

[pukka]

Hi Eddy,

yes I did try your file, that extract is from your frq file.

one thing TBS setup was VLC grabbing the direct stream from bbc 1 hd, which looks fine (I watched it for 10 min) I will have another look when I get back from the office.

I have tried to load your .ax file but I keep getting "the module "dvbdcc.ax" failed to load"

once I have a little more info I will email TBS again.

Thanks

Paul

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by pukka

Hi Eddy,
yes I did try your file, that extract is from your frq file.

The purpose of that file was to get your started and let SageTV generate all the FRQ files (one for each tuner with the right Sage naming convention), then the best thing you can do is to manually modify the FRQ file by listing the channels you want in the form:

CH:xx sat:0 :# Channel name

where "xx" is the channel number as appears in the EPG and the "Channel name" is taken from the "KingOfSat.net" website and by using the "DVB-S Importer" plugin the above information will be magically filled with all the missing DVB-S tuning parameters and your final FRQ file generated. Please go to the "DVB-S Importer" thread for more details.

I have tried to load your .ax file but I keep getting "the module "dvbdcc.ax" failed to load"

Can you please elaborate a little bit more? Did you follow the procedure in the plugin's announcement thread?

Eddy

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by pukka

I have tried to load your .ax file but I keep getting "the module "dvbdcc.ax" failed to load"

Hi Paul,

I'm not sure if you're still looking into this issue, but I recently posted instructions and a batch file to run in case you still have problems. You can find the information HERE in the prerequisite section.

Hope it helps
Eddy

[pukka]

Hi Eddy,

I have been having an ongoing problem with sagetv just stopping over night. so last weekend I reinstalled windows with a fresh wiz.bin and all other files. at the moment I only have a few channels and so far it has locked up once. I will continue to monitor and will report back here once I have more information.

Paul