Thinking about building a new SageTv server

[TechBill]

I been using SageTv for several years now and it still running good but since I installed the colossus, I have to set it up to do nighty reboot.

Now with the new HD-PVR coming out

I am thinking of building a new server using micro atx or even smaller if I can find one with enough USB jack on it to accept at least 2 HD-PVR and an external HHD for recording.

I wanted to use a small size SSD drive for OS and apps only.

since I am now using extenders only, I am hoping to downsize server size.

my current server used to be both server and client but I no longer run client on it so wanted to give old server to my son to use as a desktop and sell off the colossus in it.

Anyone build a setup like this? What hardware and CPU are you using? Motherboard size?

I am open to inputs

Thank you

[TechBill]

I am surfing and looking at some boards but notice ones called Mini-ITX

Anyone have any experience with this form factor boards?

Bill

[mguebert]

I am using a small Zotac MiniITX atom board with 1 hd for a WHS2011 Home server for backing up my sage PC and other pc's in the house. It has worked flawlessly for more than 2yrs now. It is headless, uses very little power and requires no interaction from me. Works great.

Not sure how suitable it would be for a Sage server though. If you don't plan on running comskip during recording and watching hours though it should work fine and would be small form factor and low power.

[sflamm]

just setup a zotac nano ad12 as a sagetv client. works well. slightly sluggish but nothing terrible. video playback is great. best of all it literally mounts to the VESA mounting holes on the back of the display.

currently using with n wifi though the lan is much faster.

doubt it can serve as a server though - simply not that powerful. the CPU rating is 3.9 according to windows.

[MattHelm]

As long as you don't com skip or something like that, you can't get a "modern" CPU that is too slow for a SageTV client. I had one of the few dual core semptrons (sp) as a server CPU, never saw over 5% from SageTV except at restart. Even that AD12 is fast enough. With standard SageTV, the only thing that might slow down, is how fast it finds recording conflicts, and when would 1 minute vs. 5 seconds matter for that?

Your biggest issue with an AD12 or any of the ZBOXes, is they only have 1 drive bay. You'd have to use an external HD if you wanted a SSD system disk. A custom micro ATX or smaller would be better, but be careful, you go too small and prices go back up.

(Funnest thing I did with the AD12 was update windows. With an SSD, the dual core was at 100% for about 15 minutes!)

As for a small SSD, my XP based systems only have 15GB system partition. You can do W7 with 32GB if you were careful, but I'd go 64GB, just to have some spare room, for installs/temp files. If they made a 45-50GB SSD, that's what I'd use.

[sflamm]

As long as you don't com skip or something like that, you can't get a "modern" CPU that is too slow for a SageTV client

Not really true. The java runs much slower on these low end cpu devices than on more powerful chips. It is definitely noticeable in menu traversing response times. This is particular true when images need to scaled (i.e. movie wall).

Your biggest issue with an AD12 or any of the ZBOXes, is they only have 1 drive bay

It supports e-sata and sata 3... so an external raid storage is quite possible.

a SSD system disk

really only useful for boot time. as once sagetv is loaded not a whole lot of high speed disk access required for a sagetv client. (currently I havent installed because it is not worth it)

Note: I'm running Phoenix not the native STV

[Fuzzy]

Mini-ITX is a great form factor for something with limited expansion possibilities. A mini-ITX board only has a single expansion slot (usually PCIe-x16 on modern boards). There are quite a few 'embedded' boards, with Intel Atom, or AMD e350 processors that would 'work', but there are also much more advanced boards available. I have an AMD FM1 based board sitting on my desk right now awaiting a new build for my general purpose desktop. I've got a Clarkdale i3-550 running on a mini-ITX board as my main living room client. The mini-ITX form factor is in no way less powerful than any other board that uses the same chipset, they just forgo a lot of 'extra' connectors, and are usually limited to, say, 2 DIMM slots, and at most 6 SATA ports.

As for the SSD comment, while yes, it doesn't necessarily speed up normal sagtev usage, it would potentially make fanart heavy use considerably quicker - I, however, only run normal harddrives in my server, with a large cache (4GB) in RAM for speedy browsing.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by TechBill

I been using SageTv for several years now and it still running good but since I installed the colossus, I have to set it up to do nighty reboot.

Now with the new HD-PVR coming out

I am thinking of building a new server using micro atx or even smaller if I can find one with enough USB jack on it to accept at least 2 HD-PVR and an external HHD for recording.

I wanted to use a small size SSD drive for OS and apps only.

since I am now using extenders only, I am hoping to downsize server size.

my current server used to be both server and client but I no longer run client on it so wanted to give old server to my son to use as a desktop and sell off the colossus in it.

Anyone build a setup like this? What hardware and CPU are you using? Motherboard size?

I am open to inputs

Thank you

there's a new HD PVR coming out? when?

[TechBill]

thank you for all your responses.

Again I have no plan to use it as SageTV client, I only want to run SageTV server on it which 2 of my HD300 will be connected to it and my desktop computer running sage client on second monitor so I can watch TV while working in my office.

Reason I am looking into mini-ITX form factor to see if I can save on some electricity and lower the heat output so I could put it in some closet and forget it.

My concern is if it will be able to handle 2 HD-PVR and a USB external drive and the traffic to 2 HD300s and 1 desktop client and 1 placeshifter.

I don't think I will ever run comskip because I always use skip button, sometime I like to stop and check an ad out as I quickly skip over the ads.

But I wonder if I am even saving any electricity since if I split up the units then I will be powering 2 HD-PVR and 1 external drive and ITX.


Bill

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

there's a new HD PVR coming out? when?

Here a thread on about it

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59753


Bill

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by TechBill

thank you for all your responses.

Again I have no plan to use it as SageTV client, I only want to run SageTV server on it which 2 of my HD300 will be connected to it and my desktop computer running sage client on second monitor so I can watch TV while working in my office.

Reason I am looking into mini-ITX form factor to see if I can save on some electricity and lower the heat output so I could put it in some closet and forget it.

My concern is if it will be able to handle 2 HD-PVR and a USB external drive and the traffic to 2 HD300s and 1 desktop client and 1 placeshifter.

I don't think I will ever run comskip because I always use skip button, sometime I like to stop and check an ad out as I quickly skip over the ads.

But I wonder if I am even saving any electricity since if I split up the units then I will be powering 2 HD-PVR and 1 external drive and ITX.


Bill

mini-itx, on it's own, won't draw any less power than a full ATX without any peripherals plugged into the many slots. An unused PCIe slow draws basically the same amount as a non-existent PCIe slot. The only way you are going to save an appreciable amount is if you go with the ultra low-power mini-itx systems, like the intel atom, or amd e350/450 - but you sacrifice a LOT of performace for those. I think something like a sage server, you want to have some performance headroom, so I'd still recommend a lower-end mainstream processor as a minimum, and not the ultra-low end type.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

mini-itx, on it's own, won't draw any less power than a full ATX without any peripherals plugged into the many slots. An unused PCIe slow draws basically the same amount as a non-existent PCIe slot. The only way you are going to save an appreciable amount is if you go with the ultra low-power mini-itx systems, like the intel atom, or amd e350/450 - but you sacrifice a LOT of performace for those. I think something like a sage server, you want to have some performance headroom, so I'd still recommend a lower-end mainstream processor as a minimum, and not the ultra-low end type.

Thank you for your inputs!

Bill

[MattHelm]

I agree with Fuzzy on this. At this time, if I was building a new server, I'd go with either the latest i3(dual+), or either a AMD A4(dual) or A8(Quad). They all have built in Video, so you don't need a card, and all are on the lower power edge. I went AMD, but Intel is fine too.

BTW, make sure the MB/chipset can handle what you want to do. One of the reason I picked the MB I picked, was the 7 MB SATA (+ 1 eSATA) ports. (ASUS A85X)

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

I agree with Fuzzy on this. At this time, if I was building a new server, I'd go with either the latest i3(dual+), or either a AMD A4(dual) or A8(Quad). They all have built in Video, so you don't need a card, and all are on the lower power edge. I went AMD, but Intel is fine too.

BTW, make sure the MB/chipset can handle what you want to do. One of the reason I picked the MB I picked, was the 7 MB SATA (+ 1 eSATA) ports. (ASUS A85X)

Since I am wanting to go with external harddrive.

Do you know if recording and playback from harddrive to exteneders can be handle through USB or I need a eSATA ?


Thanks for your inputs

Bill

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by TechBill

Do you know if recording and playback from harddrive to exteneders can be handle through USB or I need a eSATA ?

SageTV can use and storage the server can see.

I personally would never use USB for a recording drive, as eSATA external drive cases are about the same price. Yes, you need power, but I even found a USB powered eSATA case. Saying that, I know others here that have used USB drives for recording/playback.