sagetv network encoder

[sflamm]

According to the manual, a second instance of SageTV server can be used as a network encoder (see excerpt below)

The question I have is how do I setup network encoders?
Are the steps:

1. Install SageTV server on remote machine (will become network encoder)
2. Setup video sources on the remote SageTV server(network encoder) as normal
3. Verify the video sources are all working
4. Stop the SageTV service and set the "enable_encoding_server=true"
5. Add "network_encoder_discovery=true to the main SageTV server (clients connect to this)
6. Add the 'discovered' videos sources for us by the main SageTV server

Is this process correct?

Does this mean for instance I can install a HDPVR remotely using EXEMultiTunerPlugin for tuning and the video source will be available to use on the main SageTV server as if it were local?

Appendix G: Network Encoding
SageTV can be used to control recordings made with an encoding device that is installed on
another computer on the same network. Two full installations of SageTV are used for this
purpose:

For the installation of SageTV that is going to be the network encoder, set this property:
enable_encoding_server=true. Start this installation of SageTV. Note: To also use
SageTV on this system as a client, start a second instance of SageTV.exe, using the ‘-
client’ command line parameter. See Appendix D: SageTV Command Line Parameters.

For the main installation of SageTV (the one that is to be the server for all your clients),
set this property: network_encoder_discovery=true. Start SageTV.

Note: Each installation of SageTV will require a separate registration license.

Note: The SageTV server will need access through any software firewall for port 8271
(UDP), while the network encoders will need access for port 6969 (TCP). These ports
are the same no matter how many network encoder devices are in use, on one or multiple
computers. See Firewall Settings for more port information.

[wbarber69]

Oh all this is theoretically possible.... If you have an extra license key laying around

[sflamm]

I have extra licenses. What I dont know is if that is the correct procedure.

If it is then I should be able to migrate/convert my existing 32-bit 2003R2 SageTV server to a network encoder with little effort (simply setting "enable_encoding_server=true" ) and put a new 64-bit Windows 2012 SageTV server in place.

Does anyone have experience setting up SageTV Network Encoders using this procedure? (not the old sGraphRecorder).

Thanks in advance.

[sflamm]

Any one know if this approach is correct?

[wbarber69]

It does seem like a lot of work for such a small payoff in increased speed.

[sflamm]

Not doing it for a tuning speed increase.

The worthwhile goal is to separate out the video sources which have 32-bit dependencies and have to be physically attached to hardware (ie Cable or Satellite receiver, HDPVR, Ceton Tuning Card) from the sagetv server which does not. That way I can always upgrade the main sagetv server OS versions and hardware independently which has large impact on overall performance/flexibility.

For instance right now stuck on W2003 R2 (because of these dependencies) which is much worse than W2012 which has faster network performance, handles multithreading / multi processors tremendously better, works with SSD trim, support modern CPUs/hardware etc

[Syrius]

Hey,

Yeah this process works for network encoders - pretty straight forward really I configured it like this yesterday for my home setup. The only issue I am having is trying to get the EPG to show data. (OTA EPG in Australia). For some reason when using the tuner card locally the EPG is fine, but when its configred as a network encoder, all I get on the master box is "No Data".

[sflamm]

Thanks for the feedback.

When the SageTV server 'discovers' the network tuner does it not appear as a video source that you can 'add'? As such should you not be able to associate a channel guide to the source on the SageTV server (for the remote source)?

[sflamm]

After you have 'discovered' and 'added' the network encoder to the SageTV server worst case you should also be able to manually edit the video source in the sagetv.properties file to associate a channel guide/ EPG with it, correct?

[KeithAbbott]

Please keep updating this topic with your results, I may end up going the network encoder route as a way to deal with adding a crappy Colossus or two onto an otherwise stable SageTV setup.

[sflamm]

I have the two servers up. The one that is the network encoder is configured with "enable_encoding_server=true" and the main sagetv server is configured as "network_encoder_discovery=true"

The main sagetv is not showing any "discovered" network tuners...

The video source is configured and working on the network encoder server just not showing up in the main sagetv server.

Any ideas?

[sflamm]

success! will report back with more details shortly. steps above work.

[sflamm]

Now have a W7 x32 machine running SageTV 7.19 server acting as a network encoder.

Provides a seamless tuner that appears local though it is really a HDPVR connected to a Comcast STB using FireWire channel changing via MultiEXETuner on the remote SageTV server. The encoder is added like any local video source and associated with an EPG configured locally.

The server is an old shuttle SK41g 1.8Ghz AMD Duron and 2Gb of DDR 266 and UATA hard drive with GigE PCI NIC

Network bandwidth usage is less than 5% (1080p is max 19.2 Mbits = 2.4 MBps). And CPU usage is a startling 2% !!

Should easily be able to support multiple HDPVR/STB streams.

Another fine example of why SageTV is simply unmatched.

[KryptoNyte]

Have you manually tweaked out your SageTV properties file yet to max out the HD-PVR recording bitrate? I don't believe you can achieve max bitrate any other way.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33407

[Gustovier]

Will the remote hdpvr now being a network encoder does it exhibit the behavior of network encoders of pausing between the end and start of a show on the same channel? When using local video sources sage 7 added in the feature of continous recording between shows on the same channel that eliminates the pause. (not really a big deal, but it's a nice little perk)

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by Gustovier

Will the remote hdpvr now being a network encoder does it exhibit the behavior of network encoders of pausing between the end and start of a show on the same channel? When using local video sources sage 7 added in the feature of continous recording between shows on the same channel that eliminates the pause. (not really a big deal, but it's a nice little perk)

All Network encoders have a slight Pause the Server has to communicate with the network encoder tell it to start recording a show over the Network... then the network encoder has to start recording .... write the recording back to the server over the Network.. then your client Starts playing it if watching livetv. It really is no big deal as long as your server and client times are synced.

[sflamm]

Have you manually tweaked out your SageTV properties file yet to max out the HD-PVR recording bitrate? I don't believe you can achieve max bitrate any other way.

No I have not - as it wasnt really part of the experiment of setting up the network encoder.

I have been running 2 HDPVRs for years at 5.9GB/hr and the picture quality is excellent. Not sure that moving to 6.6GB/hr is a major improvement?
But is looks easy enough to do... maybe i'll give it a shot.

Looking at the thread - it looks like using VBR will actually make the stream rate even lower.

Will the remote hdpvr now being a network encoder does it exhibit the behavior of network encoders of pausing between the end and start of a show on the same channel?

All video sources exhibit this behavior. The gap is reduced if you set the sage.properties "always tune=false" - it will not retune if the channel does not change but that really has nothing to do with the network tuner and even with this set there is always still some pause. I havent noticed any difference between the behavior / performance of this tuner and a local one. There is also the standard delay /latency before the stream starts.

All Network encoders have a slight Pause the Server has to communicate with the network encoder tell it to start recording a show over the Network... then the network encoder has to start recording .... write the recording back to the server over the Network.. then your client Starts playing it if watching livetv. It really is no big deal as long as your server and client times are synced.

Actually the network encoder is not writing the stream at all. It is simply streaming it to the SageTV server and the SageTV server is doing the file I/O. The SageTV client is reading the stream directly from disk itself (using UNC paths). The latency there is only the request to the network encoder from the sagetv server which has been imperceptible small (the same time as if the HDPVR was local).

The configuration I have right now for my experiement is:

recording:
network encoder (sagetv server) -> sagetv server -> NAS (UNC path)

playing/live tv
sagetv client (software or HD300) -> NAS

[KryptoNyte]

I'm getting the feeling from wbarber that this delay isn't any different from the Firewire channel changes. So, what is the channel change time exactly, via firewire?

I noticed that SageTV with USB-UIRT changes the channel in less than 1 second on the STB, but it takes the STB + HD-PVR another 4 or 5 seconds before the big blue light comes on and it starts recording. By the time I select 'watch' from the guide, I would say I'm typically looking at about 7 to 8 seconds before the image appears in Sage.

[sflamm]

Enabled the VBR 6.6GB/hr setting using:

mmc/python2_encoding/H.264-BestVBR=videobitrate\=13500000|vbr\=1|outputstreamtype\=1


Works like a champ. Now network utilization is .88% on the encoding server.

Looks like when the network encoder is discovered it adds the following entry (which I believe can just be added by hand for other encoders instead of discovering):

mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/brightness=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/broadcast_standard=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/contrast=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/hue=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/last_channel=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/provider_id=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/saturation=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/sharpness=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/tuning_mode=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/2/0/video_crossbar_type=2
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/brightness=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/broadcast_standard=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/contrast=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/hue=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/last_channel=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/provider_id=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/saturation=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/sharpness=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/tuning_mode=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/3/0/video_crossbar_type=3
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/brightness=134
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/broadcast_standard=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/contrast=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/hue=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/last_channel=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/provider_id=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/saturation=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/sharpness=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/tuning_mode=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/5/0/video_crossbar_type=5
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/brightness=134
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/broadcast_standard=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/contrast=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/device_name=2
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/hue=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/last_channel=705
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/provider_id=962144801421
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/saturation=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/sharpness=128
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/tuning_mode=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/90/0/video_crossbar_type=90
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/audio_capture_device_index=-1
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/capture_config=1050624
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/default_device_quality=H.264-BestVBR
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/delay_to_wait_after_tuning=4000
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/device_class=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/dshow_tv_type=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/encoding_host=HDSTB\:6969
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/fast_network_encoder_switch=false
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/last_cross_type=90
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/video_capture_device_name=Hauppauge HD PVR Capture Device
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/video_encoding_params=H.264-BestVBR
mmc/encoders/-1895000910/video_processor=

[sflamm]

I'm getting the feeling from wbarber that this delay isn't any different from the Firewire channel changes. So, what is the channel change time exactly, via firewire?

The channel change time via firewire is almost instantaneous (sub-second for certain). The nice thing about the firewire channel change is it is 100% reliable (no misfires ever).

I noticed that SageTV with USB-UIRT changes the channel in less than 1 second on the STB, but it takes the STB + HD-PVR another 4 or 5 seconds before the big blue light comes on and it starts recording. By the time I select 'watch' from the guide, I would say I'm typically looking at about 7 to 8 seconds before the image appears in Sage.

Agree - the big time delay is attributable to the time to fireup the HDPVR. I also see a 4-5 second delay.

I use the HDPVR only for channels that are not "copy freely" and need to be 'captured' instead directly from the STB. Otherwise I use either my HDHR Prime or Ceton tuners.