HD PVR recording quality settings

[tledford]

Edited after the post was copied to a new topic:

The "best" setting in SageTV is only 5.9mb whereas in the "Capture Module" it can be set to constant 13.5mb. Side-by-side comparisons of the same content from my DirecTV H20 show a much higher quality capture from the ArcSoft stuff.

Can the recording quality setting in SageTV be changed?


Regards,
TL

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by tledford

The "best" setting in SageTV is only 5.9mb whereas in the "Capture Module" it can be set to constant 13.5mb. Side-by-side comparisons of the same content from my DirecTV H20 show a much higher quality capture from the ArcSoft stuff.

Can the recording quality setting in SageTV be changed?

That should be a 5.9 Gb/hour setting in SageTV, from a 12 mb/sec setting for the recording quality. If the max 13.5 mb/sec quality that the HD PVR can use doesn't already have a recording quality setting in SageTV, then see the FAQs about creating a custom recording rate.

- Andy

[tledford]

Originally Posted by Opus4

That should be a 5.9 Gb/hour setting in SageTV, from a 12 mb/sec setting for the recording quality. If the max 13.5 mb/sec quality that the HD PVR can use doesn't already have a recording quality setting in SageTV, then see the FAQs about creating a custom recording rate.

- Andy

Thanks for the tip, Andy, but the only thing I could find in the FAQs on this subject was four years old and no longer appears to be relevant. At any rate, the existing quality settings (Fair, Good, Great, Best) for this device are not to be found in any properties files in my installation of SageTV. Nevertheless, I went ahead and added the mmc/python2_encoder line and the seeker/recording_qualities line to my sage.properties file (the text file was somewhat helpful as to the parameters) but the new resolution doesn't appear in SageTV.

Is it possible that this method of adding addition recording quality settings has been deprecated? Is there something out there less than four years old that might describe the current way to do this?

By the way, here are the lines that I added to my sage.properties file:

mmc/python2_encoding/Highest\ Quality\ -\ 720p=videobitrate\=13500000|width\=1280|height\=720| audiobitrate\=384
[...]
seeker/recording_qualities/Highest\ Quality\ 720p=Highest Quality - 720p,384,48000,13500000

Thanks,
TL

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by tledford

Thanks for the tip, Andy, but the only thing I could find in the FAQs on this subject was four years old and no longer appears to be relevant. At any rate, the existing quality settings (Fair, Good, Great, Best) for this device are not to be found in any properties files in my installation of SageTV. Nevertheless, I went ahead and added the mmc/python2_encoder line and the seeker/recording_qualities line to my sage.properties file (the text file was somewhat helpful as to the parameters) but the new resolution doesn't appear in SageTV.

Is it possible that this method of adding addition recording quality settings has been deprecated? Is there something out there less than four years old that might describe the current way to do this?

I forgot to point out that the seeker/recording_qualities line is no longer needed, but yes, custom recording qualities are still in use. The default qualities are no longer written to the properties file. I also posted somewhere that for the HD PVR, only the bitrate and vbr/cbr settings are used.

Try a setting like this:
mmc/python2_encoding/HDPVRMax=videobitrate\=13500000|vbr\=0|outputstreamtype\=1

Of course: remember to close SageTV completely before editing sage.properties.

And, I don't yet have an HD PVR, so I can't test the above setting.

- Andy

[bialio]

When I put that setting in, I see the following new option :

"MPEG-2 TS @ 6.6GB/hr"

is that right?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by bialio

When I put that setting in, I see the following new option :

"MPEG-2 TS @ 6.6GB/hr"

is that right?

How does that compare to the formats listed below the other HD PVR H.264 recording qualities? (Again, I don't have them listed in my UI. And, is "Best" actually listed as "Best-H.264"?)

And, more importantly: does it work if you try to use it as the HD PVR's recording quality?

Or, maybe even more importantly: if it works, how does it compare to the lower bitrate settings?

- Andy

[bialio]

Well, it does work at that rate. Previosly it had 5.9GB/hr as BEST.

If Google Calculator is right, 1 Mbps = 0.439453125 gigabytes / hour

So 13.5 Mbps = 5.9326171875 GB / hour

So I think the existing BEST in Sage is probably the best that the HD-PVR is capable of. Does Sage by default use vbr or cbr? Maybe that's the difference?

btl.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by bialio

If Google Calculator is right, 1 Mbps = 0.439453125 gigabytes / hour

So 13.5 Mbps = 5.9326171875 GB / hour

So I think the existing BEST in Sage is probably the best that the HD-PVR is capable of.

Do the same calculations for 12000000 & you will see that comes out lower.

Anyway: This has come up before... I don't remember the details of the calculations, but there is more to it than the video bit rate, since audio & some other data needs to be included. Best is coded at 12000000 as the videobitrate & that matches the max quality setting for the previous Hauppauge tuners, like the 150, 250, PVR-USB2, etc. The old "MPEG2 Max Quality" is listed as 5.9 GB/hr in the SageTV UI where you choose the recording quality.

I'm basing the setting I posted above on the Hauppauge site listing 13.5 Mbs as the max rate for the HD PVR. It should be same as the built-in Best rate for h.264 except for the videobitrate boost.

Originally Posted by bialio

Does Sage by default use vbr or cbr?

I believe the default H.264 recording qualities built into SageTV are cbr.

- Andy

[tledford]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Do the same calculations for 12000000 & you will see that comes out lower.

Anyway: This has come up before... I don't remember the details of the calculations, but there is more to it than the video bit rate, since audio & some other data needs to be included. Best is coded at 12000000 as the videobitrate & that matches the max quality setting for the previous Hauppauge tuners, like the 150, 250, PVR-USB2, etc. The old "MPEG2 Max Quality" is listed as 5.9 GB/hr in the SageTV UI where you choose the recording quality.

I'm basing the setting I posted above on the Hauppauge site listing 13.5 Mbs as the max rate for the HD PVR. It should be same as the built-in Best rate for h.264 except for the videobitrate boost.

- Andy

Adding a line similar to the one you recommend above to the sage.properties file shows up in SageTV and does produce good quality recordings. My initial impression is that the recordings produced with this new setting are very good, but I will need to do more testing to determine if it is in fact better than the pre-existing "Best" setting. (It still doesn't *seem to* look as good as the maximum CBR bitrate using the ArcSoft software, but again, it is so close that I need to do some more testing.)

One question, Andy. The value of "1" for parameter "outputstreamtype" is not documented in the text file pointed to in the FAQ. According to that document, the default is "0" and produces a program stream. What does "1" produce?

Thanks much -- really amazing software for $80!

Regards,
TL

[bialio]

There is definately more to it than just video.

However, 13.5 Mbit = 14,155,776 bits. Mega isn't a million, it's 1,048,576. Stupid powers of 2 .

Using 14155776 it bumps up to 6.9 GB/hr. I think that's the max.

btl.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by tledford

One question, Andy. The value of "1" for parameter "outputstreamtype" is not documented in the text file pointed to in the FAQ. According to that document, the default is "0" and produces a program stream. What does "1" produce?

Based on:

Originally Posted by bialio

When I put that setting in, I see the following new option :

"MPEG-2 TS @ 6.6GB/hr"

I would guess a transport stream.

- Andy

[tledford]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Based on:

I would guess a transport stream.

- Andy

...there are program streams and elementary streams, as I understand, each of which is a type of transport stream.

The text file pointed to by the FAQ specifies that an "outputstreamtype" of "0" produces a program stream, so I was wondering if an "outputstreamtype" of "1" would produce an elementary stream. I'll experiment and see what I can figure out about what it is doing.

FWIW, I cannot really see a difference between the new "Bestest" (that's what I called it) setting in SageTV and the capture from the ArcSoft software with the bitrate cranked all the way up. They both look very, very good, if just a tiny bit soft. (This is based on captures from the same movie on MGMHD at 1080i via a DirecTV H20.) I thought about posting screenshots from each, but that proved to be problematic since I can't really get the 1080i captures to run properly in any player except SageTV and even that isn't as smooth as I'd like. WMP, mplayer, the 32-bit version of Media Player Classic and VLC all crash *hard* immediately while the 64-bit version of Media Player Classic plays the video back at half-speed but the audio at full speed. The ArcSoft player doesn't run at all on x64 Vista.

I attempted to produce frame grabs to post from MPC64 for comparison purposes (Alt+I, the default) from MPC64 but all I got each time was an error message. :-P

I'll keep experimenting. In the meantime, I believe I'll go ahead and pop for a SageTV license today. It is hard for me to imagine that the Vista Media Center will *ever* be as good (or as FLEXIBLE) as SageTV, even after support for this device and H.264 is introduced (supposedly) later this year.

[stanger89]

Is there any way to specify the peak bitrate for VBR mode? If you crack open the Dshow encoder filter, it's adjustable up to 20Mbps+.

-edit

Nevermind, RTFM: "peakvideobitrate"

[sleonard]

This reminds me, I remember way back in Jan., when news of the HD-PVR first came out of CES, it was said to have a max bitrate of 25 Mb/s. When it was officially announced a few month later that had been reduced to the currently advertised 13.5 Mb/s. That makes me wonder if the current limit is an artificial one and, if it is, was it reduced via the driver or just the controls in the included customized version of the Arcsoft SW.

All this has led me to wonder if we couldn't create a custom recording quality that is at the full limit of the Ambarella chip instead of Hauppage's artificial limit (assuming still that it is a limit imposed by Hauppauge and not the chip)

I just got mine back from RMA and am still testing their reliability and don't have the playback hardware muscle in any case but it's on my list to experiment with when I either get some HD extenders or upgrade my client PC's.

S

[royhuang]

I've created a few custom recording qualities for SageTV and they are selectable options for all of my tuners (internal, HDHomeRun) except for the Hauppauge HD PVR. The HD PVR shows the 4 default H.264 ones but nothing else.

So,how can I modify the preexisting H.264 rec. qualities? Or, if not, how can I get my custom rec. qualities to show up in the HD PVR recording quality selection screen?

Thx very much in advance! --Roy

[Opus4]

For custom HD-PVR recording qualities, you can change the videobitrate and vbr settings on the mmc/python2_encoding/<quality name> property that I posted above.

- Andy

[royhuang]

Hi Andy.

I've already set up custom recording qualities. I just can't see them when I'm trying to customize the Hauppauge HD DVR recording qualities. I do see my custom ones for my internal tuner & the HDHomeRun.

[Opus4]

You don't see them in the SageTV UI or they aren't in the properties file? If they aren't in the UI, then compare your custom quality property lines to the sample I posted above.

- Andy

[royhuang]

Originally Posted by Opus4

You don't see them in the SageTV UI or they aren't in the properties file? If they aren't in the UI, then compare your custom quality property lines to the sample I posted above.
- Andy

I didn't see them in my UI. I did not include the outputstreamtype. Now I see them! Thanks so much Andy.

[crobs808]

Andy!!

Sorry to drag this old thread up, but in Sage TV 6.6 I added this file to my sage.properties file, and I do not see any new custom recording setting....

mmc/python2_encoding/HDPVRMax=videobitrate\=13500000|vbr\=0|outputstreamtype\=1

What am I doing wrong? Is there a specific place to add it? I just stuck it in with all the other lines that began with "mmc/..."

Thanks