Premium HD Recording in SageTV with TivoToGo?

[Chilli]

So it looks like TivoToGo now allows HD recording to be transferred to a PC...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2205172,00.asp

I know Sage supports playback of .TIVO files, but I was wondering if anyone has tried to import premium HD recordings from a Series3/Tivo HD to Sage?

I've been a Sage user since the very first beta (still loving it at v6.2!) but I would really like to be able to watch premium HD shows (HBO, Discovery, etc) in Sage. And with the HD extenders coming soon, it would be really sweet if Sage can finally handle premium HD.

[stanger89]

TivoHD $300
3 Years of service $300

Or R5000 modded Dish box $550

That said, for all the cable/cablecard users out there, it would be an interesting "solution".

FWIW, if they don't do anything different with the tivo wrapper, there's no reason Sage should have a problem with HD recordings, they're just MPEG-2 transport streams, just like most other HD out there.

[Chilli]

I can't install dish at my place...

In time, I'm sure Tivo will drop the price of the TivoHD so it'll be like buying a pricey dual tuner. I paid $170 for the HDHR (a steal, but I'm sure the price will also fall over time). Which leaves us with the service fee of $8/mth...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Chilli

Which leaves us with the service fee of $8/mth...

• $16.95/month with 1 year agreement
• $14.95/month with 2 year agreement
• $12.95/month with 3 year agreement

or

• $179 for 1 year prepayed ($14.91)
• $279 for 2 year prepayed ($11.63)
• $299 for 3 year prepayed ($8.31)

After the agreed period you're charged the "then applicable" monthly fee (presumably at least $16.95), and each additional Tivo is $6/month.

per Tivo

[mikesm]

The Tivo's are nice, but they don't do what Sage can do. If you want them as tuners, I don't think tivo to go will work, as the files from cablecard equipped Tivo's are encrypted on the drive, and encrypted in tivo to go. They won't play in a normal player I believe. If you can break the DRM of course, that's a different beat entirely.

Myself, I'd just do the R5000-HD mod and be done with it. It should work with SDV too, unlike the Tivo.

thanks
mike

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by stanger89

TivoHD $300
3 Years of service $300

Or R5000 modded Dish box $550

That said, for all the cable/cablecard users out there, it would be an interesting "solution".

FWIW, if they don't do anything different with the tivo wrapper, there's no reason Sage should have a problem with HD recordings, they're just MPEG-2 transport streams, just like most other HD out there.

Actually, TiVo has deal right now for people who had lifetime subscriptions on older boxes to transfer the subscription to a new TiVoHD for only $199. That's for the subscription only, you still have to pay $299 for the box.

So some people might be able to avoid the monthly TiVo fees. Of course, your cable company is going to charge you something per month for the Cable Card(s) too.

The trick would be somehow getting Sage to trigger the TiVo to record things, since ideally you control everything via the Sage interface.

I don't know about the newer TiVo files details, but when I moved some old Series 1 TiVo shows over to Sage, I did have to run them through a process to get them to work cleanly. Apparently TiVo adds some packets in the MPEG stream to help with A/V sync and it can confuse some decoders. (If I remember correctly, Placeshifter could play the "raw" TiVo files ok, but the MVP couldn't.)

--John

[mkanet]

I dont know... my dual tuner R5000 setup just works... I record On Demand HD movies all the time while recording premium channels in the background. I haven't even had to think about it since I first installed both R5000s for SageTV.

[Chilli]

Agree that R5000 is the way to go if only I can put a dish in my place. Even if TivoToGo export works in Sage, the need to transfer HD video out of the Tivo box would mean timeshifting of 'live' shows would not be possible. Maybe I need to move...

Now, does anyone see a light at the end of the tunnel for Sage to handle premium cable in HD?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Chilli

Agree that R5000 is the way to go if only I can put a dish in my place. Even if TivoToGo export works in Sage, the need to transfer HD video out of the Tivo box would mean timeshifting of 'live' shows would not be possible. Maybe I need to move...

Now, does anyone see a light at the end of the tunnel for Sage to handle premium cable in HD?

Mkanet and I both use r5000-hd modded cable stbs. They work better than dish r5000's.

As for the tivo, older s1's and s2's files can be played back, but s3's are encrypted and not extractable.
thx
mike

[Snuffy2]

So a little back on topic. Some of us (like me) cannot get a R5000-HD with our cable service and can't switch to Dish. So the possibility of TivoToGo of HD content is intriguing even if may cost more than the R5000 option.

From my understanding, you can only copy HD content that isn't marked as Copy Protected by your cable co. From early reports I've read, its hit or miss (kinda like encrypted QAM). Some cable Cos mark all HD content not on the OTA channels as Copy Protected and thus cannot be copied off the Tivo to the HD. If your cable co doesnt mark any as copy protected then getting them to your HD would be easy.

Also, some sort of automation would need to be written to download any new shows that arrive on TivoToGo down to the PC. Not impossible to do, but AFAIK not done publicly yet. Nor, as was mentioned before, could you watch those programs live on Sage (or even while they are recorded)

As for playing Tivod HD content on SageTV I have no idea. Has anyone tried it yet? That obviously would also be a big sticking point if you couldn't even play the data.

If this is feasible and my Cable Co doesnt copy protect everything, I will almost definitely pursue this option. I may even be able to whip together an 'automator' to get all shows off the Tivo to the PC if I go this way.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Snuffy2

So a little back on topic. Some of us (like me) cannot get a R5000-HD with our cable service and can't switch to Dish. So the possibility of TivoToGo of HD content is intriguing even if may cost more than the R5000 option.

From my understanding, you can only copy HD content that isn't marked as Copy Protected by your cable co. From early reports I've read, its hit or miss (kinda like encrypted QAM). Some cable Cos mark all HD content not on the OTA channels as Copy Protected and thus cannot be copied off the Tivo to the HD. If your cable co doesnt mark any as copy protected then getting them to your HD would be easy.

Also, some sort of automation would need to be written to download any new shows that arrive on TivoToGo down to the PC. Not impossible to do, but AFAIK not done publicly yet. Nor, as was mentioned before, could you watch those programs live on Sage (or even while they are recorded)

As for playing Tivod HD content on SageTV I have no idea. Has anyone tried it yet? That obviously would also be a big sticking point if you couldn't even play the data.

If this is feasible and my Cable Co doesnt copy protect everything, I will almost definitely pursue this option. I may even be able to whip together an 'automator' to get all shows off the Tivo to the PC if I go this way.

Well, if all you care about is non 5C's content, then Sage can record from a cable STB using firewire today, and it's a lot less hassle than hacking a tivo. However, the thread topic is premium HD, and that is almost always 5C'd.

Unless the S3 is cracked like an egg, i don't think it's worth the effort to try and get sage to use it as a tuner...

thx
mike

[Deinonych]

Originally Posted by Snuffy2

So a little back on topic. Some of us (like me) cannot get a R5000-HD with our cable service and can't switch to Dish. So the possibility of TivoToGo of HD content is intriguing even if may cost more than the R5000 option.

From my understanding, you can only copy HD content that isn't marked as Copy Protected by your cable co. From early reports I've read, its hit or miss (kinda like encrypted QAM). Some cable Cos mark all HD content not on the OTA channels as Copy Protected and thus cannot be copied off the Tivo to the HD. If your cable co doesnt mark any as copy protected then getting them to your HD would be easy.

Also, some sort of automation would need to be written to download any new shows that arrive on TivoToGo down to the PC. Not impossible to do, but AFAIK not done publicly yet. Nor, as was mentioned before, could you watch those programs live on Sage (or even while they are recorded)

As for playing Tivod HD content on SageTV I have no idea. Has anyone tried it yet? That obviously would also be a big sticking point if you couldn't even play the data.

If this is feasible and my Cable Co doesnt copy protect everything, I will almost definitely pursue this option. I may even be able to whip together an 'automator' to get all shows off the Tivo to the PC if I go this way.

I just got the 9.2 software update for my TiVo HD. I am able to transfer video off of the TiVo to my HTPC, but SageTV can't play them back. SageTV appears to recognize them as a valid format, but I get the following error when I try to play them: sage.PlaybackException: ERROR (-4,0x80004005). They play fine in Windows Media Player, so I'm guessing there's something about the file format that SageTV doesn't like.

I'm running v6.1, so perhaps upgrading to a newer version will fix the playback issue. Anyone know for sure?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Deinonych

I just got the 9.2 software update for my TiVo HD. I am able to transfer video off of the TiVo to my HTPC, but SageTV can't play them back. SageTV appears to recognize them as a valid format, but I get the following error when I try to play them: sage.PlaybackException: ERROR (-4,0x80004005). They play fine in Windows Media Player, so I'm guessing there's something about the file format that SageTV doesn't like.

I'm running v6.1, so perhaps upgrading to a newer version will fix the playback issue. Anyone know for sure?

I suspect it's a DRM issue. You loaded the tivotogo software on the system right? Trying moving it to another system that doesn't have the software installed and see if WMP can play it there. I bet not.

Thanks,
mike

[Deinonych]

Originally Posted by mikesm

I suspect it's a DRM issue. You loaded the tivotogo software on the system right? Trying moving it to another system that doesn't have the software installed and see if WMP can play it there. I bet not.

Thanks,
mike

Yeah, you're probably right. Bummer.

[mikesm]

It appears I was wrong about the DRM. Rather Tivo lets you export video without DRM if the "don't copy" bit is unset in the program. This should roughly map to 5C restrictions, so if you have good luck with the Tivo on export, it likely means you'd have good luck with firewire too.

Thx
mike

[jpwegas]

I believe TiVo inserts extra data into the MPEG stream to help with audio/video sync. Some players can't play videos pulled down from a TiVo without having this extra data removed.

Deinonych,
If you want to verify whether this is the problem, I believe that VLC knows how to play these files (with the extra a/v sync packets) once they are downloaded using TiVoToGo.

--John

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by mikesm

It appears I was wrong about the DRM. Rather Tivo lets you export video without DRM if the "don't copy" bit is unset in the program. This should roughly map to 5C restrictions, so if you have good luck with the Tivo on export, it likely means you'd have good luck with firewire too.

Mike,
Thanks for the clarification. I don't have a recent TiVo so I was not able to test this directly.

--John