Client vs SageTV?

[PeteCress]

Given that there are not going tb any more Sage Media Extenders, the fallback position would seem tb a PC doing the same job.

But what to run on that PC?

Seems like "Client" is the intended product for that role.

But there's no way to get more Client licenses.... or is there?

What would be the downside of just installing SageTV on many PCs and having it point back to the "real" SageTV PC for Wiz.bin and hooking it into LAN-based HD HomeRun tuners. i.e. using it as if it were Client.

First thing that comes to mind is contention for the tuners....

[jchiso]

I tried to set up a SageTV Media Center to operate in the foreground as a Client, but could not get it to do so. Every time the system re-booted Sage started in MediaCenter mode. I would have to manually minimize the server and launch a second instance in Client mode ...

[davephan]

I used to run SageTV on a computer and used the TV output of the PVR-350 with no extender or client. It worked. This was back around version 1.4 to 2.0, before HD. I don't know how well that would work with more recent SageTV versions and HD.

You might be able to setup a computer with the trial client on it and either image it back to "day 1" every 21 days. Or, image it back to "day 0" and run an automated trial client install with Macro Express or some other macro recording software. I don't need to run the client software and haven't had time to test an automated install, but I plan to test the install to determine if the trial client can be used longer than 21 days using either method. It would be good to have a backup client in case the HD extenders quit working. It would be much better if Google simply sold client licenses, but they seem to be refusing to do so.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

You can run the client, or run the full sagetv install in client more (-client commandline parameter). These two are basically the same thing, just with different licenses required. that said, you can't get a license for either. As for dave's suggestion of the imaging, I'm pretty sure it'd have to be an image before at least the first run, if not before the install. Moving back to day 1 won't work, as I'm pretty sure it's clock based. Using clock tricks won't work either, as you need the clock to be set correctly for sage to function. Imaging is an option (simple, not as convenient for the rollback), as is running an iSCSI boot with reversion features (way more complex to set up - a lot quicker to restore). I have tried neither, but it would seem they should work.

It's also unknown how google would treat the recycled trial mode of operation. It doesn't appear that the trial itself is even mentioned in the EULA, meaning that even running in trial mode, without a license, is technically against the EULA (which prohibits use without said license).

[gregmac]

I found the "Client" mode to be a very bad user experience. I tried it when I was first evaluating Sage tv (I switch from mythtv about 10 months ago), and I quickly came to the realization it's meant to be used on a PC - where you have a keyboard and mouse handy, and don't mind seeing the windows start menu, etc.

It is simply not anything like the experience of an HD300, except that when you do finally get it running you can tell it's the same software.

* You have to do extra work to make it come up and be the foreground application on bootup
* You have to do lots of extra work to not make the various windows notifications (like OS upgrades) not pop up and interfere
* You have to be careful not to do actions that launch an external program -- like pressing "visit website" from the plugins page, which launches IE and stops responding to the remote.
* There's no real way to absolutely prevent other apps from stealing foreground focus, other than trying to make sure there's nothing running that will do that

I switched because I liked the HD300, and so I quickly gave up my thought of using one of my old mythtv frontend PCs (an Asrock Ion 330) and just ordered a couple more HD300's.

What really did it: HD300, $150. Cheapest I could build/buy a silent or almost silent, small PC: $400 (plus, a whole crapton of my time either getting mythtv frontend configured nicely, or screwing with sagetv client and never quite getting it 100%). I currently have 3 HD300's, so that's $450 in, whereas using PC clients was minimum $1200, and they're still PCs that have headaches the HD300's don't.

[sflamm]

I found the "Client" mode to be a very bad user experience. I tried it when I was first evaluating Sage tv (I switch from mythtv about 10 months ago), and I quickly came to the realization it's meant to be used on a PC - where you have a keyboard and mouse handy, and don't mind seeing the windows start menu, etc.

Bunch of hooey. Been running Clients for years (in addition to my HD300s).
They all are seemless 10' experiences only run by an MCE remote. Clients are actually much faster than the HD300 at screen refresh etc (since they have much better horsepower / memory). Only downside is they dont have the advantage of out-of-the-box config like an HD300. Most notably you do need to install the right codecs...

* You have to do extra work to make it come up and be the foreground application on bootup

Not true. SageTV can be configured directly to come up on boot as the foreground app. Can even be configured to force itself to stay in the foreground

* You have to do lots of extra work to not make the various windows notifications (like OS upgrades) not pop up and interfere

Not true. Once it is up and running successfully there is absolutely no need to take any windows updates ever. Turn updates completely off.
Furthermore, again, none of that comes into the foreground - you would need to close SageTV to see it.

* You have to be careful not to do actions that launch an external program -- like pressing "visit website" from the plugins page, which launches IE and stops responding to the remote.

Disable Windows Media Center - that's about all... very simple to do.
Other than that - it is all from the remote... program the buttons to do what you want. A lot of folks use Logitech Harmony remotes... No one I know uses a browser from SageTV (and the HD300 cant do it - so if you want to it is there... in addition to everything else like full media players like MPC, PowerDVD, TMT...)

* There's no real way to absolutely prevent other apps from stealing foreground focus, other than trying to make sure there's nothing running that will do that

Again totally not true. As mentioned above you can set one setting in SageTV and it will always remain in the foreground

I enjoy a mix of SageTV clients and HD300s - the advantage I like of the HD300s is they are small, low power, easier to setup, and cheaper. But then again - you cant buy them anymore. The downside is overall speed (i.e. when you go to a movie list it will not load all your cover art nearly as fast as a SageTV client), flexibility (i.e. will not play BDVDs with all menus/features)...

[can3gxw]

If you want to have a "server" SageTV install always start in CLIENT mode when the PC starts, turn OFF the "start sage on windows startup" within Sage itself, and simply create a shortcut to Sage with the -client parameter and drop that in the windows STARTUP folder. It will then always start Sage in client mode on that machine.

[gambitpvr]

You have to do extra work to make it come up and be the foreground application on bootup

In my experience, SageTV won't always push itself to the foreground, like it is supposed to. Before I replaced my Client machines with HD300's this was an annoyance.

I wrote a small script with AutoIt to force focus to the Sage window. I just put the script in the Startup folder and it checks every 5 seconds or so to see if the Sage window is in focus, if not, it forces Sage to have focus.

I've attached a zip with the compiled EXE and the source AutoIt scripts for use on the Sage server or the Sage client.

[nyplayer]

You can fix all this foreground stuff with Powertoys or tweakui for windows. I have used clients all the time and there is no problem running it full screen on start-up once you tweak windows once.

[sflamm]

Ditto. Been running SageTV clients for years full screen on startup with absolutely no problems - without even using TweakUI... just standard SageTV startup settings under Detailed->Settings...

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by sflamm

I enjoy a mix of SageTV clients and HD300s - the advantage I like of the HD300s is they are small, low power, easier to setup, and cheaper. But then again - you cant buy them anymore.

Is there a license issue running multiple instances of SageTV in "Client" mode on multiple PCs?

Or will the same license key received with the single purchase of SageTV work on all of them?

Seems to me like I've been there multiple-PC-wise, but not in "Client" mode.

[sflamm]

Each SageTV client needs a separate license.

[sflamm]

Note extenders (i.e. HD300, HD200, HD100) do not need separate licenses.

[macsupergeek]

You can have unlimited # of same client license setup they just can't all talk to the server at the same time. So if you are watching TV in the basement and close that client and go up to your bedroom and then launch that one you can essentially be anywhere you want just not all at the same time.

[gplasky]

If you had the same PC client license on multiple PCs you would need to reboot the server between the use of the different PCs. It uses the MAC address of the client PC in addition to the license. Placeshifter is a different story.

Gerry

[sflamm]

So to summarize - you need a license per client

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Note extenders (i.e. HD300, HD200, HD100) do not need separate licenses.

Not quite true. The HD200 and HD300 do not require separate licenses. However the HD100 requires an extender/placeshifter license.

[PeteCress]

I wonder if anybody at Google has considered turning SageTV over to some junior product manager on some sort of comission basis.

Seems like win-win to me: the existing customer base gets to buy licenses and HD300's, and the junior manager gets a few bucks on the side.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

It uses the MAC address of the client PC in addition to the license.

Sounds like spoofing the MAC address might work.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Sounds like spoofing the MAC address might work.

Not really, because you can't use the same MAC address on more than one machine on the network (which would be the point of doing this).