Stay or Bail ?

[d2globalinc]

innovation is good, use sage until something better comes along.. personally i cant wait for the next version of google tv and then to see how they take the tech of sagetv and add to it.. google is the best chance sagetv has of moving to the future in one form or another..

[bastafidli]

I think Google has ability to make this a success or a complete failure. It can go either way. The only hope is that Jeff will gain enough influence to affect the direction of Google product in the way which will appeal to original Sage audience.

[GMan78]

Speaking of Jeff, Jeff where are you??? Let us know you are still out there working for our interests, or at least that you still care...it has been a long time since we've heard from you....even a hello at this point would be welcome...or is this like one of those slow breakups where we keep waiting near the phone hoping you'll call, until finally one day we all just give up and walk away...

We all want to be hopeful and excited for your future AND that of our beloved SageTV....show us a sign oh lord Jeff, that there is something around the corner worth looking forward to... (hint: client licenses would be OH SO SWEET!)

George

[speck55]

Originally Posted by GMan78

Speaking of Jeff, Jeff where are you??? Let us know you are still out there working for our interests, or at least that you still care...it has been a long time since we've heard from you....even a hello at this point would be welcome...or is this like one of those slow breakups where we keep waiting near the phone hoping you'll call, until finally one day we all just give up and walk away...

We all want to be hopeful and excited for your future AND that of our beloved SageTV....show us a sign oh lord Jeff, that there is something around the corner worth looking forward to... (hint: client licenses would be OH SO SWEET!)

George

At the local mall, holding a Black Amex Card (absolutely no limits - buy a house if you want), going on a shopping spree, right where Google needs/put him, probably. As far away from the actual product as they can, whilst they put all the HD300's in a pile in one of their incinerators.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

I think Google has ability to make this a success or a complete failure. It can go either way. The only hope is that Jeff will gain enough influence to affect the direction of Google product in the way which will appeal to original Sage audience.

I *can* do either way - in the fact that there are infinite alternate timelines. My prediction is that it will not. This was a hostile move, and the most you'll see probably, is Google maybe using a patent or two from sage's portfolio. The rest will be shelved, burnt, "laid off", or otherwise tossed.

[simonen]

Originally Posted by speck55

At the local mall, holding a Black Amex Card (absolutely no limits - buy a house if you want), going on a shopping spree, right where Google needs/put him, probably. As far away from the actual product as they can, whilst they put all the HD300's in a pile in one of their incinerators.

Just because Google bought them out, don't think for a moment that they made out like bandits. I would be surprised if they more than a few hundred k.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by simonen

Just because Google bought them out, don't think for a moment that they made out like bandits. I would be surprised if they more than a few hundred k.

A 'buy out' and a job with Google sound like a really good deal to me... I'll bet the Google paycheck (and benefits) is a sweet deal too. I always wanted to run my own business, never had the guts or the $$$ to start one. Glad to see you made it big!

If you want some icing on the cake, ask Google if you can sell the rest of the HD300s.... On Ebay

Larry

[speck55]

Originally Posted by larryf

A 'buy out' and a job with Google sound like a really good deal to me... I'll bet the Google paycheck (and benefits) is a sweet deal too. I always wanted to run my own business, never had the guts or the $$$ to start one. Glad to see you made it big!

If you want some icing on the cake, ask Google if you can sell the rest of the HD300s.... On Ebay

Larry

Yeah, and if there are 100 left in inventory, that'd be another what, $40,000 of quick cash (at the going rate of $400) at the expense of the project/community/people/customers who got him where he is today, all of whom were cut off at the knees with zero notice.

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by brewston

I think you summed things up nicely there. I think they think that these forums will happily beta test their first sage/google product. If the product does what Sage does for me now, then I'll be happy to take a look. Also, with respect to the hardware, if they release a product that runs on multiple vendors HW (Much like Android on multiple phones) that doesn't involve me paying customs/tax on the delivery, messing around with power converters and then constantly being afraid that my extender will suddenly stop working, then I'll be happy about that too

Brewston, I would also be happy to at least look at something as well. I just doubt it will be in any form such as Sage was. And I don't have to contend with power converters, customs/taxes, etc., so I certainly respect you on that point as well - you are adding even more hard work to have Sage work for you.

As I said, I sincerely hope I am wrong and my rant wasn't even worth 2 cents!

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by speck55

Yeah, and if there are 100 left in inventory, that'd be another what, $40,000 of quick cash (at the going rate of $400) at the expense of the project/community/people/customers who got him where he is today, all of whom were cut off at the knees with zero notice.

Speck, when Sage 7 came out I took heat on these forums because I groused that we were beta testers paying for the privilege of being, well, beta testers.

When my 9-1/2 year old dropped Sage 7 cold turkey and begged me to go back to Sage 6 because it had a sensible interface, I told him I would if I could, but we would lose compatibility/improvement with HD-PVR and other hardware that let me record his favorite shows. But he was right.

I'm guessing we'd all be amazed at how few zeros behind a low leading digit it took to have all that "power to the people" attitude vanish.

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

That is one of the reasons I'm not all that sad at the current state of things. I personally think sage was too small (not enough money) to ever get anything like cablecard and netflix/hulu integration. I know that some people don't care about that integration, but when a $60 roku has it, then it kind of becomes necessary.

I believe that had sage not sold to google, we would have not had sage in any form in the next few years due to the fact that they just don't have the capital to get big business' features into their product. Don't get me wrong, I'll use sage in it's current form until everything stops working. It will be a very sad day for me to have to go back to an STB from the likes of DirecTV, ATT, or whoever.

Yeah, that's a tough call for me. Ceton was quasi-vaporware, although in fairness to Sage not many others besides Moxi can do it well with a DVR. Sage basically had its own free tech support department - everyone from those who donated complicated services and plug-ins down to the newest user who had a great idea that solved a problem. Sage Tech Support just wanted a bunch of logs. I sent them enough over the years to dam up the Colorado river and never heard anything back, although Las Vegas certainly has had its share of water supply problems over the years...hmmm...naaah, can't be...

I suppose it's how you define success, but there are a lot of niche operations out there that are highly profitable because they do ONE thing better than anyone else. They don't need to grow exponentially like Google or impress shareholders or be the bleeding edge of their industry.

It seemed to me as though Sage had enough with their hardware extenders to segregate themselves into that profitable niche. They did not seem to be overly generous with their licensing or pricing or bundling models either.

And if you look back historically, media (fillms, radio, TV, video) has always been highly resilient during tough economic times. Not bulletproof, but resilient. People want to be entertained when they are bummed out, so I question the reasoning a little. And since I can never really find what I want on Netflix or Hulu, they mean little to me. My son goes through short bursts of Netflix, but the library is so limited he usually gives up. And we all know what happens when everyone demands a torrential downpour at the same time from The Cloud...Well, some of us do anyway. I guess most of the world thinks hi-speed data lines and ISP plants don't cost much to build or maintain.

Even if Sage had a "Going Out Of Business Sale" it still could have stocked up on hardware and sold as many server/client/placeshifter licenses as it wanted to, sort of like those downtown big city stores that have been going out of business for decades...

If it's selling an extender for $150 then it's probably keystoned up from $75. If they are buying in hundred lots, that's not a lot of capital to commit. I know ebay sellers that keep that much product on hand, and more.

As always, I hope I am wrong.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by Savage1701

(snip)

I'm guessing we'd all be amazed at how few zeros behind a low leading digit it took to have all that "power to the people" attitude vanish.

And vanish it did. Along with power to the: plugin devs, community members, ANY FORM of official support, any path to expand the system, and probably soon power supplying the servers that power these forums and the plugin repository.

Yep, and that makes it an even more angering/despicable situation if the amount changing hands was low.

[gizmo3141]

Any thoughts about starting some sort of open source project simply using SageTV as a good example of how it should be done. Sort of reverse engineer it...or build around the program as it exists to support users who have used it for so many years and have valid licence keys?

Maybe start a new support forum for those users in another space on the internet. After all, all were doing from here on in is supporting users who want to keep using SageTV as long as possible...

Just a thought...

[APillowOfClouds]

Originally Posted by gizmo3141

Any thoughts about starting some sort of open source project simply using SageTV as a good example of how it should be done. Sort of reverse engineer it...or build around the program as it exists to support users who have used it for so many years and have valid licence keys?

Maybe start a new support forum for those users in another space on the internet. After all, all were doing from here on in is supporting users who want to keep using SageTV as long as possible...

Just a thought...

I'm a programmer by trade and I've thought about it. But you really need someone that's experienced/talented in video processing. I've done industrial equipment control but not anything with mutimedia.

[stanger89]

I think the best bet in that sort of venture would be to not start an entirely new product, but join in on something already going, like XBMC, and work on getting their DVR function up to snuff.

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I think the best bet in that sort of venture would be to not start an entirely new product, but join in on something already going, like XBMC, and work on getting their DVR function up to snuff.

They are not really working on DVR at XBMC but in making it more comparable with outside DVR software. You need to start with getting the basics in something like Media Portal or NextPVR and then working on the plugin for XBMC to that software.

MediaPortal has some limited functionality in XBMC today but I think NextPVR may actually be a better DVR solution but with less eye candy but the eye candy stuff is not relevant if you are going to use XBMC as the front end.

The rub for XBMC right now is the extender part. AppleTV works but has some limits.

Boxee with a MediaPortal or NextPVR plugin may also be a good solution.

[APillowOfClouds]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

They are not really working on DVR at XBMC but in making it more comparable with outside DVR software. You need to start with getting the basics in something like Media Portal or NextPVR and then working on the plugin for XBMC to that software.

MediaPortal has some limited functionality in XBMC today but I think NextPVR may actually be a better DVR solution but with less eye candy but the eye candy stuff is not relevant if you are going to use XBMC as the front end.

The rub for XBMC right now is the extender part. AppleTV works but has some limits.

Boxee with a MediaPortal or NextPVR plugin may also be a good solution.

I'm guessing the most efficient thing would just be to help the MediaPortal team and bring some Sage-ness to the project.

[slowpoke]

Yes - MediaPortal has decent PVR functionality with good card and HD-PVR support. It would be great if Sage devs could add some of the Sage polish to MP. Things like:
- dialog box with options when a recording is about to start while you're watching TV (right now it just switches)
- option to cancel recording if you chose a channel while a recording is in progress
- etc

As for some of the complaints about getting guide data etc. MC2XML works very well - I am in the process of creating some scripts to automatically add channels from XMLTV, etc.

Originally Posted by APillowOfClouds

I'm guessing the most efficient thing would just be to help the MediaPortal team and bring some Sage-ness to the project.

[bandres]

anybody see this on "Google Music"? I betcha "Google TV" will be the same kind of thing.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/g...it-works-vide/

[debacle]

About 4 yrs or so ago, a neat little product was revealed at the TED conference. It was called Bumptop. Basically, it was a program that replaced your windows desktop and made it 3d with real world physics. Some may have heard of it. Some pretty neat features in it. You could create "piles" of the desktop icons, fan them apart to see what was in them, and had several nice widgets made by the developers and 3rd parties.

I was actually lucky enough to get into the Beta Test group. I tried it out, played with it, worked through bugs, and did everything a good beta tester should do in hopes of helping to create a good product. And in my mind, those of us in the beta group did. We worked with the devs into creating a product that others wanted, one that others would find usefull. The only recompense we received was free use of the software during the beta phase.

Eventually a stable product was release for the public. I forget the license cost, but they charged for it. Even those of us in the Beta group had to pay for it. Which is fine. The ultimate goal is to make money, and I wont bemoan them that. Problem is, and I dont remember the exact time frame, within months of the initial public release and sales of the license, they were purchased by Google. All production stopped. Any new releases stopped. Those who had purchased licensing were stuck with it. To be fair, they did offer recent purchasers of their software money back if they so chose. But who of those who had had much of a reason to visit the site and see that announcement before it was removed? For the record, I DID NOT partake in the refund. I had used the product for years in beta and finally public release versions, and to be honest, it still works as it was supposed to do without the need to add things on.

Fast forward to present day. This look familiar? It has been over a year since the purchase and closure of bumptop, and google still has not used the physics engine or anything recognizable from bumptop. While I am not in all of their beta groups, I am in quite a few and havent seen anything resembling it. Even the Android 2.x and 3.x systems display no signs of bumptop. Not saying there wont be in the future, but the future has quite a long time in coming. Basically my point is I wouldnt expect to see much if anything more from sagetv. This is from my personal experience.

The part that really bothers me is that I had just begun to build my home system. Hundreds of dollars into a htpc. $200 into a HD-300 and server license with the plans to have already purchased atleast 2 more extenders by now for the other sets in the house. Then mere weeks (less than a month) after I submit my order, the sale to Google goes thru and I am left with a half finished system. Only way I can complete it is to pay exorbitant prices on eBay for someone else's used equipment that contains no warranty. That really rubs me the wrong way. I guess I am just anal about having continuity in my home.

As I said previously, I do not begrudge them for the sale. Hell, I would have done it myself. At the end of the day, we are all hoping to get paid in our respective career decisions. But damn, they left alot of people hanging with little/no hope for the future. They could have done it with a bit more tact. My trial of PlayOn recently expired and due to the uncertainty of extenders, I will not renew with them as originally intended. The decision to sell and the way it was done has more repercussions than just to SageTv itself.